To restore or to not restore the MBTA's late-night service

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Mayor Menino's Crohn's

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It's been talked about at nauseum, and I'm not sure where to begin: GM Richard Davey said that it's not happening and the Mayor said that the "T isn't designed to taxi drunk people around."

Of course there are several factors in not restoring night owl service, but the biggest would be loss of revenues from DUI's and OUI's. If service was restored, it would mean less overtime arrests for State and Local police, and among other things property taxes would go up if we restored the T service.

Sooooooooooooooooooooooo, a couple of things come to mind: Should the T be privatized? Which means that we would be paying more to ride the T. Or, do we except something else being tax in order to pay for the T late-night service?

It seems like a no-brainer to restore the night-owl service. The T needs money and we want people to get home safe. If anyone says otherwise, feel free to tell me where I am wrong.
 
I always felt like the taxi lobby controlled the T schedule. trains at 1230, bars at 2?

I understand having to do maintainence, but the T is public. The mayors statement is essentially, its not public transits job to help keep drunk drivers off the road. kinda is mumbles.

The T should just adapt its schedule to reflect the movement of people, much like it does at rush hour by running extra trains, or being free when a couple million people come in for the fourth.

Why cant they run trains, or major substitute bus routes on thursday, friday, and saturday nights for an increased price? $4 bucks to go to harvard square, southie, or brighton at 230 am instead of walking looking for a cab seems reasonable. Id pay it.
 
choo said:
Why cant they run trains, or major substitute bus routes on thursday, friday, and saturday nights for an increased price? $4 bucks to go to harvard square, southie, or brighton at 230 am instead of walking looking for a cab seems reasonable. Id pay it.
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Night Owl bus service was $4 and the T still lost money.

Once you go past the normal closing hours you are paying the employees overtime.
 
Arborway said:
Night Owl bus service was $4 and the T still lost money.

Once you go past the normal closing hours you are paying the employees overtime.
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Which is one of the complaints from GM Richard Davey...money that the T doesn't have...and yet, it begs to ask the question, what does the T then do with it's money? Because it's hard to believe that the T is that broke.
 
After a certain time cut the Red Line to Harvard - JFK. Orange Line to Wellington - Jackson. Green Line to B, C, and E. Blue Line Government Center - Orient Heights.

Just run 2 trains per line, with just 1 for the Blue Line.

Electricity (ie: 3rd rail, cantenary, and lighting) is ALWAYS on, 24/7. So all your paying for is to crew the trains.
 
BostonUrbEx said:
Electricity (ie: 3rd rail, cantenary, and lighting) is ALWAYS on, 24/7. So all your paying for is to crew the trains.
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wait, does electricity work this way? specifically doesn't the 3rd rail pull electricity when it's in use, or just passively?
 
choo said:
I always felt like the taxi lobby controlled the T schedule. trains at 1230, bars at 2?

I understand having to do maintainence, but the T is public. The mayors statement is essentially, its not public transits job to help keep drunk drivers off the road. kinda is mumbles.

The T should just adapt its schedule to reflect the movement of people, much like it does at rush hour by running extra trains, or being free when a couple million people come in for the fourth.

Why cant they run trains, or major substitute bus routes on thursday, friday, and saturday nights for an increased price? $4 bucks to go to harvard square, southie, or brighton at 230 am instead of walking looking for a cab seems reasonable. Id pay it.
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The real issues behind not restoring late-night T service would blow people's minds...


Keep in mind it's not just bar-hoppers who benefits from this. Nurses? Janitors who work the late shifts?



Are we all in agreement that the night-owl service should be restored?
 
I would agree, but we bus drivers should be paid regular hours, not overtime. That should help alot of making the programing financially feasible too. I used to work at a convenience store to 3 am. I was never paid overtime for working at that late time.
 
ant8904 said:
I would agree, but we bus drivers should be paid regular hours, not overtime. That should help alot of making the programing financially feasible too. I used to work at a convenience store to 3 am. I was never paid overtime for working at that late time.
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Yeah same here. My shift ended at 1am and it was the same money if you worked at 9am.

The problem with the last night owl service is that the routes werent set up well. Note I said last, there has been various night owl attempts over the decades.

I'd start off with just two routes:

N1, Porter Square to Dudley Square via mass ave and washington. Essentially the day time 1 with a short extension.

N2 Government center to just past harvard ave (oak square?)
Essentially the B line.

Routes cross at Comm Ave and Mass Ave.

Thursday, Friday and Saturday from 12:40am to 2:40am, one (hybrid articulated) bus every 20 minutes

Option B:

Give every subway/bus run on the high frequency map 3 extra trips on Thursday, Friday and Saturday, so instead of closing at 12:45am, you have the T closing at 1:30am. This also promotes people leaving the bar earlier to catch the T.

Note that some buses already begin their last trip at 1:30am, so this schedule would essentially extend service past 2:15am.
 
I could have used the T late night-early morning for several jobs. I actually didnt take one job because there was no T service.

Problem is not enough ppl use it. It's a cultural thing around here, like how there's barely any 24 stores. If the mayor started a campaign to change the culture where things were open and ppl were out and about late night going to the grocery strore, starbucks, the bar etc and could get around normally (there's plenty of college kids) it seems like it could boost the city's economy. More jobs, more money exchanging hands.
 
Suffolk 83 said:
I could have used the T late night-early morning for several jobs. I actually didnt take one job because there was no T service.

Problem is not enough ppl use it. It's a cultural thing around here, like how there's barely any 24 stores. If the mayor started a campaign to change the culture where things were open and ppl were out and about late night going to the grocery strore, starbucks, the bar etc and could get around normally (there's plenty of college kids) it seems like it could boost the city's economy. More jobs, more money exchanging hands.
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i've been burned too many times to put any stock into entering the subway anywhere near the ending time.... if it is after 11:30 i bite the bullet and take a cab, and I'm imagining most others do too.

If it were 24 hours? I think the culture would change instantly. And the cab companies would lobby hard against it.
 
I am tired of being screened by potential taxi drivers for where I am going. I had 6 cabs turn me down the other night when my friends and I told them we were going to Brighton......6 cabs.

Then, the cab driver gets pissed when we tell him we are going to use a card. 9 out of 10 times I have used a card in a cab, I have had to deal with the driver getting annoyed and mad at me. I enjoy the.."the machine is broken" or "you pay cash or get out" lines. I have no problem if the driver is willing to take me to an ATM and not charge me for the extra distance. Cabs in Boston are ridiculous and getting one late night can be an issue.

Now I realize they have to deal with a lot.....namely drunk idiots. I would gladly pay a $5 T fare if the T would run service. Why not run 2 trains from each terminus starting at 1:30 and then at 2:30.
 
The problem here is that Boston is a city where the old guard stands strong. It's old style Italian thinking that had held us back. The re-election last November showed us that we don't want change. So, as long as the Mayor's Cop Son can benefit from DUI stops, and he and the MBTA GM have basically told people to stop complaining, then expect nothing to change for a while.
 
Arborway said:
Night Owl bus service was $4 and the T still lost money.

Once you go past the normal closing hours you are paying the employees overtime.
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Only because of poor labor negotiations and management willing to cave in to the union hackery.

To quote Ron Burgandy "You stay classy, Boston!"

(Anyone want to propose we shut down the roads for 5 hours a day so road crews can do maintanence?!?_
 
The extra cost for security and Transit Police, cleaning of puke and piss, and property damage needed to handle the overserved drunks exiting from bars at 2:30am is alone enough not to extend the T hours. Menino is 110% right the t is not designed to taxi drunks around
 
Because you can put a price on your life, or that of someone special to you, being taken by a drunk on the road. What about the property damage caused by them? What about their puke, piss, and blood and guts on the road that has to be cleaned up?

And maybe I didn't get the memo that I, and everyone else, have to be tucked into bed by midnight just because I'm from the Boston area, but I'm pretty sure many people enjoy/require staying out late and scuttling around the city through the whole night who aren't drunk as a skunk.
 
bosma said:
The extra cost for security and Transit Police, cleaning of puke and piss, and property damage needed to handle the overserved drunks exiting from bars at 2:30am is alone enough not to extend the T hours. Menino is 110% right the t is not designed to taxi drunks around
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Since where have you seen drunk people puke on the subway? Are you part of the neo-temperance movement?
 
Do any Italian cities have late-night bus or subway service? You've got me curious now.
 
bosma said:
The extra cost for security and Transit Police, cleaning of puke and piss, and property damage needed to handle the overserved drunks exiting from bars at 2:30am is alone enough not to extend the T hours. Menino is 110% right the t is not designed to taxi drunks around
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Yeah, I don't know about the old-style Italians: It's actually this thinking, the stereotypical Puritanical holier-than-thous, that cracks me up.

Not everyone out on the streets after dark is a drunk. Or even out because they were drinking.
 
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