Portland Passenger Rail

Morrils Corner gets some love on my fantasy map...the best part of running intercity service through the peninsuala cut & cover under cumberland is that a significant amount of train traffic would not go through the street-level crossings around forest ave.

1763065186324.png
 
TC_zoid said:
Another option. There are available lots near Bruno's and it has 3 tracks so that the overhead bridge idea is not necessary. The authority is putting zero effort into this. This area features numerous businesses and it's walking distance of UNE. Their current proposal sucks, and everyone on this blog knows it does. We are traveling backwards with it. And I love the old school theme of the boxing club next door. It's kind of a cool metaphor. You know, Rocky, a fighter.

View attachment 68501
Click to expand...
I'm going to guess access is the biggest issue for this location--it's already kind of awkward getting in and out of Bruno's
 
The design fails first of all for not having a freight passing solution on CSX's mainline high-and-wide clearance route. Plate F boxcars roam the line every single day transporting paper products from the big Maine mills, and the very close proximity to the big curve on the Fore River wye means that some of those wide turning-radius cars may be swaying on their axles as they pass. There is no freaking way CSX is going to accept a 10 MPH speed restriction on their own property so they minimize their chances of taking a dinger to the platform edge, so they're going to reject it out-of-hand. One would think NNEPRA and their design contractors would want to do the most basic of research before wasting money puking up a render, but apparently not.

On top of all the other problems with it. . .
 
Island Frye said:
I'm going to guess access is the biggest issue for this location--it's already kind of awkward getting in and out of Bruno's
Click to expand...
The biggest issue is TPTB insisting on being on "the peninsula".

As far as access goes, and without looking at the old Stop & Shop proposal since I don't have a copy of it, I can think of several possible access points that could be used in addition to the existing exit from Bruno's:
  • Woodlawn and Morrill Sts., which I believe was the access route to the Burt Company (later Chipco) when it was back there. Downside is that that's a very residential street.
  • A road in the back way via Read St. and Quarry Road, near Rocky Hill and the old American Can plant. That's probably the path of least resistance.
  • Create an underpass under the tracks at the end of Morrill St. near the Boxing Club. It would have to be cars only due to the space available and would take some creative engineering to build.
 
This area does need something, but some issues I come up when thinking about the station in this area:
If you build a station near Morrills Corner, does that compromise the Falmouth Station proposal?
Cons- not near an interchange or Downtown Hotels
Forest Ave traffic issues.
I would like to see a study of where most of the passengers go or come from?
I drive for an executive car service PT, my pickups most go to a hotel downtown for a meeting or conference
It's a different customer base than Concord Coach, aks Bruins, Celtics, Concerts at TD
There was a reason our forefathers-built Union Station and Grand Trunk Station
The rest of the passengers either go to Falmouth, Cape, or SOPO,
it's a great idea, but it does not reach the core audience that Amtrak and quick access to 295 or 95. The traffic on Forest is the issue and a deterrent.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
One would think NNEPRA and their design contractors would want to do the most basic of research before wasting money puking up a render, but apparently not.
Click to expand...
This seems (and ought) to be a credibility-busting oversight…and at this point maybe that’s what it will take to halt this current proposal. They made it clear as day when they went before the City: if THIS proposal’s not accepted by all stakeholders in time for THIS grant application cycle, then we’re turning our attention to Falmouth instead. It feels like fake-it-til-you-make-it territory once oversights like compatibility with freight clearance regs start coming up through the cracks.

I could be wrong, but I think what we’re dealing with now is the fruits of the key stakeholders’ failure to agree from the outset on what the true priorities are for this project. NNEPRA’s top priority seems to be speedy implementation, while the City’s seems to be effecting mode shift through multimodal connectivity, TOD development, etc. These things don’t necessarily have to be mutually exclusive, but in this case we could not find a site that satisfied everyone’s top priority, so then it devolved into the current situation, where the side that prioritized speedy implementation is plowing ahead (in service of their individual priority) without having the complete value proposition lined up.

This project really needs someone (CSX? FRA?) to halt this proposal. I don’t care what the fancy renderings suggest: this is not a fully-baked concept.
 
PWMFlyer said:
This area does need something, but some issues I come up when thinking about the station in this area:
If you build a station near Morrills Corner, does that compromise the Falmouth Station proposal?
Cons- not near an interchange or Downtown Hotels
Forest Ave traffic issues.
I would like to see a study of where most of the passengers go or come from?
I drive for an executive car service PT, my pickups most go to a hotel downtown for a meeting or conference
It's a different customer base than Concord Coach, aks Bruins, Celtics, Concerts at TD
There was a reason our forefathers-built Union Station and Grand Trunk Station
The rest of the passengers either go to Falmouth, Cape, or SOPO,
it's a great idea, but it does not reach the core audience that Amtrak and quick access to 295 or 95. The traffic on Forest is the issue and a deterrent.
Click to expand...
You raise some great points and I wanted to think on them before responding.

Does it compromise West Falmouth? I honestly have no idea. Obviously it makes the two stops that much closer together, but whether that would be close enough to make WF not worth it... no clue.

As far as a study goes, I think NNEPRA has conducted them at one time or another. Amtrak obviously has the trip info, probably including round-trip pairings, and that might be available either publicly or via FOIA. They may also have passenger Zip Codes as well. But my gut feeling (and that's all it is) is that the vast majority of passengers boarding at POR are either off-peninsula Portlanders or suburbanites arriving by personal motor vehicle and originating their R/T in Portland. Obviously, people attending events at the Garden and Fenway represent a significant enough portion of ridership that they've adjusted the last northbound run to accommodate them. People from elsewhere using the train to visit Portland for whatever reason.... a small percentage.

As far as access to 295 goes, you're obviously right. A Morrill's Corner station is probably more convenient to the Turnpike, particularly for passengers coming from the northwest (Lewiston, etc.), (a market that would also be served by West Falmouth) and obviously more convenient for persons coming via the US 302 corridor, possibly more convenient for those coming in the ME-25 corridor via Warren Ave. 295... north of the city is also served by Brunswick and Freeport, and it's a 5-6 mile straight shot in on Allen Ave. from the Bucknam Road interchange. Admittedly not the same as having an exit that dumps you right there, and Allen Ave. is far from an expressway, but it's not impossible (especially with a guide sign at the Falmouth Rd. / Allen Ave, Extension split). SoPo and Cape are obviously disadvantaged.

One last thing that occurred to me re: Site 3. We know NNEPRA is planning an early short-turn commuter run once Wells is complete. We also know that many of the downtown office workers are now WFH, or their jobs been relocated out of the city as the banks, etc. had their headquarters moved away. But who in Portland is still employing a lot of people who have to go to work every day? Maine Med and Mercy... and Site 3 is perfect for both. It's going to provide a bridge over the tracks to the Mercy campus, and it's adjacent to the MMC employee garage with its constant shuttles up the hill. So from that perspective Site 3 is perfect.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The design fails first of all for not having a freight passing solution on CSX's mainline high-and-wide clearance route. Plate F boxcars roam the line every single day transporting paper products from the big Maine mills, and the very close proximity to the big curve on the Fore River wye means that some of those wide turning-radius cars may be swaying on their axles as they pass. There is no freaking way CSX is going to accept a 10 MPH speed restriction on their own property so they minimize their chances of taking a dinger to the platform edge, so they're going to reject it out-of-hand. One would think NNEPRA and their design contractors would want to do the most basic of research before wasting money puking up a render, but apparently not.

On top of all the other problems with it. . .
Click to expand...
One thing I'll say on this is that the design appears to be essentially identical to the one they're building in Wells... two tracks, platform on each side, no freight runaround. And that's a stretch where they should be able to run at whatever the PTC MAS is, as opposed to coming off a curve from a bridge into a quiet-zoned uphill grade full of crossings. So CSX must be copacetic with it.
 
markhb said:
Did anyone make it to this? The packet is here (PDF warning), and the minutes from October are perhaps more detailed than usual regarding the Portland station project.
Click to expand...
I went. The proposal station for Portland is on hold. The city council is not liking this idea/location. NNEPRA's "leader" is not happy about it. I don't think it's going to happen. I'll know more next week.
 
TC_zoid said:
NNEPRA's "leader" is not happy about it.
Click to expand...
Patricia? Or Jim Cohen, the board chair? Reading the minutes from October, I got the feeling that Jim (a former Portland City Councilor and, I believe, Mayor from the pre-elective days) was going to "make some calls."

I can see everyone's point. Site 1 is unworkable. Site 3 is the best from a railroad operations standpoint and for hospital commuters but it's in an awful location otherwise. Site 2 is best from the City Council's perspective (at least those Councilors who have weighed in on it) but trying to go there means going to war with the city's largest employer, who I imagine is holding onto it with eventual plans to replace the shopping center with a 4-story medical office building.

I just looked at the city tax maps for the Bruno's area at Morrill's Corner. Most of the land is owned by a couple of LLC's that have addresses at 33 Allen Ave. (Bruno's). The chunk at the back between the Boxing Club and Quarry Road is actually owned by the city, so if they wanted to push a road through there that could happen easily (caveat a grade crossing for the RR siding serving that warehouse). Morrill St. actually has a ROW through to the University Park area; I think the Burt Company when it was there was accessed via the Princeton St. area, not down through Bruno's, but I could be wrong. And, of course, the land immediately abutting the tracks is owned by the railroad.

All of which goes to say, there's plenty of room there for a station, parking, and a TOD district that might actually come to something. And while they're at it, the city could buy the former Wok Inn, now a weed store that's been closed for renovations for months, and turn it into a Metro bus depot / transfer point for the area. Add a pedestrian tunnel under the tracks while they're at it to access the new station.
 
Patrica was the emotional one about the pause. She kept griping about the 3o minutes needed to back up the train, and the cost, and the extra fumes. And then it was a few jabs for the city council. Cohen is measured and cool headed. He gave a summary in the beginning of the talk about the new station, then left to attend an event.
 
The Portland proposal station near Tyson Foods is dead. I got a message from the mayor of Saco today, who was at a meeting with the Portland city council about it. She said it's off the table now. Safety is a key issue, and Saco's station has had significant problems with that (I've witnessed it too). Portland has relatively no concerns on that issue at PTC because Concord Coach usually has 2 people behind the counter who have a 270-degree view of the interior and the entrances. Saco's station has no attendants or businesses to deter those that might be of concern. I gave them another idea, and that is to have the train keep going west from PTC until it gets to 95, then run it along the middle of the highway until it gets to Falmouth where it's a close connection to get back on the existing tracks. Also, it would be close to the Falmouth proposal station so that might not be necessary now. Chicago's L train does this, traveling down the middle. Sure, it's a bit more money, but now you keep a growing and solidly functional station at PTC with hotels and new housing (on the way) and businesses, and the big new garage that's going up across and connecting to it.
 
Last edited:
The PTC has hired a pvt security firm to watch over the cars and the homeless who are breaking into cars in the parking lot.
 
TC_zoid said:
I gave them another idea, and that is to have the train keep going west from PTC until it gets to 95, then run it along the middle of the highway until it gets to Falmouth where it's a close connection to get back on the existing tracks. Also, it would be close to the Falmouth proposal station so that might not be necessary now. Chicago's L train does this, traveling down the middle. Sure, it's a bit more money, but now you keep a growing and solidly functional station at PTC with hotels and new housing (on the way) and businesses, and the big new garage that's going up across and connecting to it.
Click to expand...

Not sure that's possible now that the widening took away the median until you get past BJ's Wholesale Club heading northbound.
 
Dr. StrangeHat said:
Not sure that's possible now that the widening took away the median until you get past BJ's Wholesale Club heading northbound.
Click to expand...
The distance from each outside lane edge going in either direction is a bit over 22 feet. A standard train car is 10 feet in width. I think the tracks going under the two bridges along the way might have to be lowered a bit (or maybe not) and the center bridge pillar moved to create perhaps one on each side, just before the breakdown lane, could work. I spend a lot of time in Boston, and the engineering there never ceases to amaze me. Go poke around at the new South Station Tower. It's 60 stories built on top of a train station. Not easy. Portland needs to plan its infrastructure for the future--intelligently. The metro area is growing rapidly. In Maine, it's often an excuse heard that "We don't have the money." Find it. Other cities do. A train/bus station is or can or should be the heartbeat and first impression of a thriving and fun city. Remember where Portland was before the Downeaster. It was a truly laughable repurposed gas station with Greyhound. Maybe once or twice it would be two buses parked. I saw an IG post last week from a popular page that reviews airports around the county and world. They visited the Jetport and loved it 👏 At least we have that. The thought of the train station next door to Tyson Foods, a place that processes chickens and adds chemicals for wholesale distribution to fast food restaurants would be a monumental embarrassment for the city. It's not a good first impression.
 
TC_zoid said:
I gave them another idea, and that is to have the train keep going west from PTC until it gets to 95, then run it along the middle of the highway until it gets to Falmouth where it's a close connection to get back on the existing tracks. Also, it would be close to the Falmouth proposal station so that might not be necessary now.
Click to expand...
I've tried to talk up this idea as well – besides resolving the issue with the PTC location, a new rail corridor along the Turnpike could also allow for significantly faster Amtrak service by bypassing all of the slow at-grade street crossings between Congress and Morrill's Corner. If it were double-tracked, the state might even entice CSX into moving its freight operations out to the new line and making the current ROW available for a new light-rail service along Forest Avenue.

The new rail line wouldn't necessarily need to run in the Turnpike median – there's plenty of room in the Turnpike's quasi-publicly-owned right-of-way to build a faster-speed rail line to the side of the highway. Putting it to the east of the Turnpike would be easiest because then you'd need to build fewer rail crossings across the highway – you'd just need to build a ~1500' radius curve (with a likely speed limit of 40 mph) to connect the Mountain Division to the Turnpike corridor in the empty land behind Lowes. The state would probably have to rebuild the Exit 48 interchange to make space for a grade-separated rail line, but after that, it's a nearly straight 3 miles with only 3 street crossings to rejoin the CSX mainline somewhere near Riverside Parkway. It also builds out half the route of a possible new commuter line to downtown Westbrook.

This would be a pretty large capital project, but in the grand scheme of things, considering the costs and the operations benefits, it's probably cheaper than their harebrained plan to build a new station next to the fishsticks factory.

QmtgjTI.png
 
Nice one Cneal! I like it. Reminds me of my tramway service idea which is highly realistic, especially if there is some new TOD zoning around some of these stations. 95% of this network is on existing track with a main hub at Union Station which would be a TOD redevelopment!

Main differences are this doesn’t have that new rail line along 95. My Westbrook line extends with 1 mile of new track stretching into Gorham.
IMG_4363.jpeg

As Greater Portland continues to grow, forward thinking like this that may be seen as impossible but may just be necessary… hopefully the city and surrounding municipalities are preparing for the future instead of just trying to stay in their political/official seat.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top