Regional New England Rail (Amtrak & State DOT & NEC)

Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

F-Line to Dudley said:
They use the same carbody for baggage cars, diners, and sleepers and then just use different snap-in sections for the interior and cut holes for the default door/window positions for each car type. Windows have to be small because the sides of the car have to be load-bearing for holding up bunk beds, luggage racks, and wall-mount ovens and fridges. It's only the single-level specialty cars that have that structural limitation.

The next-gen single-level coaches won't be like that because they can shed all that load-bearing side skeleton. The specs call for "large picture windows"...but I don't know what that measures out to. It's somewhere in this 550 pages of light beach reading. Probably going to be like the Siemens Brightline cars being built for All Aboard Florida, because Siemens designed those so it could go hard at the Amfleet replacement.

682741b117791827941232da57754db7_XL.jpg



Not as luxurious as the double-pane windows of the Superliners (which I can attest are spectacular)...but probably as good as you're going to get for any high-level boarding flat that has to fit overhead luggage compartments.
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Great information. Acela window size would be great
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

I wonder when the new V2 sleeper cars will go into revenue service. Those are the ones that don't feature the toilet in the roomettes.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

Jahvon09 said:
I wonder when the new V2 sleeper cars will go into revenue service. Those are the ones that don't feature the toilet in the roomettes.
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The dining car snafu pushed the expansion order of sleepers to next in the manufacturing sequence. Means they won't get to that until the ViewFood pilots are fully tested, any design mods incorporated, and rest of the order churned out. Should be end-of-year for the diners if there are no additional hiccups, then Jan./Feb. for the sleepers. Then and only then can they do the small order half-bag/half crew dorms needed for the transcontinental LD routes so the crews don't have to bogart an entire Superliner sleeper lower level anymore. And then and only then do they get to tap the option order for outright fleet expansion to buff out the total numbers with extras.


Long way to go. At least another 12 months if they drain all the options and go for the max-sized order. The diners were a very unfortunate schedule setback, which is why Amtrak is pissed at CAF and pissed that it's still going through this slog before they can get the appropriation for RFP'ing the Amfleet replacements. But it'll get done. The final product seems to be pretty high-quality and built to last. That coach mega-order may now be Siemens' to lose given CAF's schedule problems, Nippon-Sharyo's much more serious design problems on the even longer-delayed bi-level cars, and Siemens having both the Amtrak diesel loco order and All Aboard Florida coach order running ahead-of-schedule. But they kind of have to wait out CAF on the V2's just to allow them to submit a bid on the coaches with a modded (i.e. non- wall load-bearing) coach version of the V2. For no other reason than stimulating more price competition and driving harder bargain with Siemens on the Brightliners.

All in due time. Gonna have to put up with a painful car shortage in the meantime. Especially with Nippon-Sharyo's bellyflop keeping the East's short-term single-level fleet reinforcements tied up for a couple years longer in the Midwest than they'd hoped. But at least it looks like they're going to have a lot of spare locomotives pretty soon to muscle around where needed with the Chargers looking good. The pilot Amtrak unit and pilot All Aboard Florida unit both tested well, to point where Siemens got the go-ahead last week to release the first Illinois-owned unit into testing. Means we'll have trials in Chicago Hub revenue service of a couple units before Xmas...a little lull for second-wave adjustments...then the main order starting to churn out in greater numbers mid-Spring.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

It would be nice if all of the Amfleet business and coach class cars were replaced with the V2-type biz / coach cars, but for now, I think that is wishful thinking.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

FLtD;

i clocked some AE trains through Mansfield Station by counting the frames in the video.

95 to 96 frames for the trainsets to pass through. 140~141mph.

i'll keep looking to see if i can find a faster one.

1. i wonder where (or perhaps when) they actually reach 150.

2. why can't they build the trains longer than ~205m?

i would think they could add a bit of length to the few platforms where the Acela Express trains stop.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

odurandina said:
FLtD;

i clocked some AE trains through Mansfield Station by counting the frames in the video.

95 to 96 frames for the trainsets to pass through. 140~141mph.

i'll keep looking to see if i can find a faster one.

1. i wonder where (or perhaps when) they actually reach 150.

2. why can't they build the trains longer than ~205m?

i would think they could add a bit of length to the few platforms where the Acela Express trains stop.
Click to expand...

Attleboro-Sharon is bona fide 150 MPH territory, and certified for 165 MPH on-paper. Search YouTube because Mansfield platform is the single most prime spot to take shots at full speed. Plenty of people bring radar guns there and confirm it for themselves.

On any given train speed can take a dip because there's traffic several signal blocks ahead and they have to ease up to time the next train meet. Or they were still accelerating out of a dip several miles downwind. Every D.C.-BOS trip is going to have several of those events, so top speed doesn't always occur in the same spots each time. On an on-time (or even early) schedule those dips and clear-sailing cancel each other out. Just like variable dwell times at any given station cancel each other out over length of trip. Scheduling's down to a science for doing all that variable math up the whole eastern seaboard and arriving at a default on-time schedule target.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

F-Line to Dudley said:
Attleboro-Sharon is bona fide 150 MPH territory, and certified for 165 MPH on-paper. Search YouTube because Mansfield platform is the single most prime spot to take shots at full speed. Plenty of people bring radar guns there and confirm it for themselves.
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Just a piece further down the track, in the wilds of Swamp Yankee-dom, RI, there's essentially a 15-mile straightaway from the southern edge of Greenwich, RI, until just southwest of the Great Swamp refuge. [Right at the URI flagship campus, the track does a modest bend to the SW from its SSW alignment, but again, it's modest].

Several times I've been waiting for the regular 85-mph Northeast Regional on the northbound platform at Kingston, RI, in the middle of that straightway, and witnessed the ACELA come barreling through southbound. It must be at that 150-165 mph pace at that point as well.

1.) Always reminds me of the scene from "Pushing Tin" where Billy Bob Thornton deliberately lets himself get tossed by the turbulence in the wake of a landing jetliner.

2.) The pressure wave also makes me think of any poor souls who'd have been on the receiving end of a massively fast, massively large high-explosive shell--like some unfortunate taking a direct hit from a bombardment from an Iowa-class battleship.

3.) The family of a 91-year-old woman who fell to her death after apparently getting knocked off the Kingston platform by the turbulence from a passing ACELA train sued Amtrak for the death, alleging negligence:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2011/10/26/kin-sue-amtrak-over-woman-death-after-fall/CfJKp1Jshg7REKiUBYoFXL/story.html
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

DBM said:
Just a piece further down the track, in the wilds of Swamp Yankee-dom, RI, there's essentially a 15-mile straightaway from the southern edge of Greenwich, RI, until just southwest of the Great Swamp refuge. [Right at the URI flagship campus, the track does a modest bend to the SW from its SSW alignment, but again, it's modest].

Several times I've been waiting for the regular 85-mph Northeast Regional on the northbound platform at Kingston, RI, in the middle of that straightway, and witnessed the ACELA come barreling through southbound. It must be at that 150-165 mph pace at that point as well.

1.) Always reminds me of the scene from "Pushing Tin" where Billy Bob Thornton deliberately lets himself get tossed by the turbulence in the wake of a landing jetliner.

2.) The pressure wave also makes me think of any poor souls who'd have been on the receiving end of a massively fast, massively large high-explosive shell--like some unfortunate taking a direct hit from a bombardment from an Iowa-class battleship.

3.) The family of a 91-year-old woman who fell to her death after apparently getting knocked off the Kingston platform by the turbulence from a passing ACELA train sued Amtrak for the death, alleging negligence:

https://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/2011/10/26/kin-sue-amtrak-over-woman-death-after-fall/CfJKp1Jshg7REKiUBYoFXL/story.html
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I've got an old RI track map that was done up by some guy at RR.net years ago.


  • First stretch of 150 MPH territory starts here in Richmond, RI (boundary w/ 105 MPH) about 4 miles south of Kingston station and keeps going for 17 miles past Wickford to here in East Greenwich (boundary w/ 115 MPH) at the exact site of the future RIDOT East Greenwich station. En route there is a 130 MPH curve just north of the Kingston platform (spot caution just like a yellow road warning sign...not long enough to actually change the speed limit zone). So you would only see 150 on-the-gun from the Kingston platform on a northbound train; southbounds would still be accelerating out of the 130's when they hit the platform. Another slight 130 MPH curve in East Greenwich about a mile south of the future station...but that's too close to the change to/from 115 MPH to matter.

  • Second stretch of 150 (up from 115) starts ~3 miles north of E. Greenwich station at the Apponaug Cove bridge and freight siding switch on the north end of the bridge...after the NEC is done S-curving around the shores of Greenwich Bay. Continues 6 miles through T.F. Green to Cranston freight yard and the junction with the Port of Providence Branch underneath the I-95/RI 10 interchange. No curves whatsoever in-between, so no spot restrictions. Drops to 100 then 70 final approach into Providence station, then 30 through the station tunnel.

  • 150 MPH stretch #3 begins at East Junction, Attleboro (halfway point between South Attleboro and Attleboro platforms, at the old commuter rail layover yard). Prior track in Pawtucket is 70 MPH with a bunch of 60 MPH curves, and state line @ Blackstone River through South Attleboro is 125 MPH. Map cuts off right here so I don't know precisely where the end of 150 territory in Sharon is. Probably about a mile south of Sharon station after it passes Lake Massapoag, which would make the total length 15 miles. Probably contains another mini-blip to 130 at the curve at former East Foxboro CR station (closed 1977 because town refused to pay). North of Sharon it's only a couple miles to Canton Viaduct curve then couple miles to the Route 128 stop, so doesn't ever get beyond the low triple digits again.

All of these have been tested fully at 165 MPH with the current Acela equipment. And these stretches + the trainsets will get formally uprated to that speed once construction is done on the brand new stretches of 150+ in New Jersey. Not enough meaningful gains to introduce it over multiple schedule revisions, so they're just going to wait until they can lump it all at once.



You'd be able to see 150 on the Green, Wickford, and Attleboro platforms, as well as the future Cranston and Davisville RIDOT infills. But because all these stops are going to eventually be configured same as Attleboro with 2 slower platform tracks and 2 fast passing tracks...you're further from the action than Kingston and (for now, until reconfigured) Mansfield where you get the full rush of it blasting through the platform track.


EDIT: This is what 165 MPH feels like up close and personal :cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9zIAqB7kE
 
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Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

F-Line to Dudley said:
I've got an old RI track map that was done up by some guy at RR.net years ago.


  • First stretch of 150 MPH territory starts here in Richmond, RI (boundary w/ 105 MPH) about 4 miles south of Kingston station and keeps going for 17 miles past Wickford to here in East Greenwich (boundary w/ 115 MPH) at the exact site of the future RIDOT East Greenwich station. En route there is a 130 MPH curve just north of the Kingston platform (spot caution just like a yellow road warning sign...not long enough to actually change the speed limit zone). So you would only see 150 on-the-gun from the Kingston platform on a northbound train; southbounds would still be accelerating out of the 130's when they hit the platform. Another slight 130 MPH curve in East Greenwich about a mile south of the future station...but that's too close to the change to/from 115 MPH to matter.

  • Second stretch of 150 (up from 115) starts ~3 miles north of E. Greenwich station at the Apponaug Cove bridge and freight siding switch on the north end of the bridge...after the NEC is done S-curving around the shores of Greenwich Bay. Continues 6 miles through T.F. Green to Cranston freight yard and the junction with the Port of Providence Branch underneath the I-95/RI 10 interchange. No curves whatsoever in-between, so no spot restrictions. Drops to 100 then 70 final approach into Providence station, then 30 through the station tunnel.

  • 150 MPH stretch #3 begins at East Junction, Attleboro (halfway point between South Attleboro and Attleboro platforms, at the old commuter rail layover yard). Prior track in Pawtucket is 70 MPH with a bunch of 60 MPH curves, and state line @ Blackstone River through South Attleboro is 125 MPH. Map cuts off right here so I don't know precisely where the end of 150 territory in Sharon is. Probably about a mile south of Sharon station after it passes Lake Massapoag, which would make the total length 15 miles. Probably contains another mini-blip to 130 at the curve at former East Foxboro CR station (closed 1977 because town refused to pay). North of Sharon it's only a couple miles to Canton Viaduct curve then couple miles to the Route 128 stop, so doesn't ever get beyond the low triple digits again.

All of these have been tested fully at 165 MPH with the current Acela equipment. And these stretches + the trainsets will get formally uprated to that speed once construction is done on the brand new stretches of 150+ in New Jersey. Not enough meaningful gains to introduce it over multiple schedule revisions, so they're just going to wait until they can lump it all at once.



You'd be able to see 150 on the Green, Wickford, and Attleboro platforms, as well as the future Cranston and Davisville RIDOT infills. But because all these stops are going to eventually be configured same as Attleboro with 2 slower platform tracks and 2 fast passing tracks...you're further from the action than Kingston and (for now, until reconfigured) Mansfield where you get the full rush of it blasting through the platform track.


EDIT: This is what 165 MPH feels like up close and personal :cool:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jb9zIAqB7kE
Click to expand...


Very cool, thanks for compiling and sharing. I guess I'll have to roll-out to Mansfield sometime soon to check that out.

Naughty thought: Justin Beiber chloroformed post-Great Woods [or whatever the hell they call it these days] show and lashed to a chair that is superglued to the tracks at Mansfield while an ACELA is on the way...
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

thanks guys (understated).
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

odurandina said:
thanks guys (understated).
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Like DBM says, the pressure wave is the gnarliest part of the experience. The videos don't do justice to that *foooooom* you feel across your body when the wave hits. I've never been on a platform in 150 territory, but I have been on a northbound Regional doing 125 through the Jersey swamp and had a southbound Acela pass at 150 MPH on the adjacent track. You could feel the whole side of the Amfleet jolt with a giant *THUD* against the windows. And then of course because it was a 125 vs. 150 meet you didn't even have a split second to turn your head before it was gone.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

F-Line to Dudley said:
Like DBM says, the pressure wave is the gnarliest part of the experience. The videos don't do justice to that *foooooom* you feel across your body when the wave hits. I've never been on a platform in 150 territory, but I have been on a northbound Regional doing 125 through the Jersey swamp and had a southbound Acela pass at 150 MPH on the adjacent track. You could feel the whole side of the Amfleet jolt with a giant *THUD* against the windows. And then of course because it was a 125 vs. 150 meet you didn't even have a split second to turn your head before it was gone.
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Having had the same experience a few times myself, it seems almost obscene how one can be exposed to such a *Nightmare Of Newtonian Physics* while perfectly cocooned in such serene comfort....
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

Anyone know why Connecticut is so fubar for Acela? Train goes super slowly through most of the state... if that were fixed Boston <-> NYC in 2 1/2 hrs seems totally possible.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

meddlepal said:
Anyone know why Connecticut is so fubar for Acela? Train goes super slowly through most of the state... if that were fixed Boston <-> NYC in 2 1/2 hrs seems totally possible.
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The route is really curvy in New London county. NEC Future has been throwing out some plans for straightening it out, but the local residents are very opposed. I believe the other end of the state has issues with the lines being overcrowded between Amtrak and Metro North. Likewise NEC Future has suggested building a new route/more tracks through that area. This plan is also encountering local resistance, but I don't think it's quite on the same level as in New London.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

whittle said:
The route is really curvy in New London county. NEC Future has been throwing out some plans for straightening it out, but the local residents are very opposed. I believe the other end of the state has issues with the lines being overcrowded between Amtrak and Metro North. Likewise NEC Future has suggested building a new route/more tracks through that area. This plan is also encountering local resistance, but I don't think it's quite on the same level as in New London.
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And Metro North controls the tracks from New Haven into NYC, and has priority. One slip in the schedule, missing a slot, and Amtrak can get massively delayed waiting for Metro North.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

meddlepal said:
Anyone know why Connecticut is so fubar for Acela? Train goes super slowly through most of the state... if that were fixed Boston <-> NYC in 2 1/2 hrs seems totally possible.
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MTA bans tilting because Cuomo hates everybody
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

The NYNH&H had plans back in the day to straighten the alignment out, but WWII and the postwar shift away from trains torpedoed that. I had heard once that the state of CT acquired parts of the proposed alignment for I-95, when the railroad was trying to stave off bankruptcy.
 
Re: Amtrak / Regional Rail Discussion Thread

If Mass pols want a well-networked high(ish) speed line from Springfield to Boston, the fastest, cheapest (but not cheap), path is

SPG-HFD-PVD-BOS.

The HFD-PVD part is mostly government-owned (unused I-384 alignment...a great place to put HSR and a toll road).

The hills & ridges between SPG and WOR run north-south ish and so cannot be easily crossed without prohibitive amounts of tunnel/viaduct.

Deval Patrick's gas-tax bundle was supposed to see upgrades to CSX's B&A line (passing sidings/double tracking & a bit of curve straightening), but really, real solution for SPG-WOR is buses on the Pike (we're not going to get to 70mph on the rails, and we're already there on the Pike).
 
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