BCEC expansion | Seaport

DZH22 said:
If anything, it SHOULD go supertall. (or at least 850'-900', but really why stop there?) It will finally prove that air rights projects ARE still feasible around here, as long as the height is available to offset the extra construction costs. Then we'll get our true high spine, right over the pike.
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I have to wonder about this. Almost all of the air rights projects we do have are low rises. Hynes, Copley, the grocery store and hotel in Newton, Back Bay garage are all short. And most of the proposed projects do not place actual towers above the pike, but to the side of a low rise. Maybe it is easier to do an air rights project that doesn't involve supporting so much weight. I am much less interested in the height imperative than in simply covering the open trench. I think the real answer may lie in a series of plazas with interspersed low rise buildings, and adjoining towers where there is available land.
 
stellarfun said:
As whigh pointed out, and as the Globe article noted, the Hynes straddles the MassPike. That will discourage any developer from thinking supertall.

Besides, this cycle appears to be winding down on luxury residential.
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There is plenty of terra firma under the Hynes. About 1/3 of the parcel is air rights, but the whole SW portion (everything along Dalton South of Cambria, in front of the Sheraton) is solid ground. You could easily fit a Pru or a One Dalton on the land south of the Pike land without building anything on air rights.

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That being said, anything that could go up here wouldn't go up in this cycle.
 
There's a short list of companies I could imagine keen on constructing a HQ office tower at the Hynes site within the decade. Wayfair immediately comes to mind, but even Draft Kings and Amazon might be interested. As long as the Commonwealth owns Hynes, maybe a stipulation with the sale would be to accommodate new office space for regional or state agencies (MassDOT briefly considered moving to Tremont Crossing during the Patrick Administration). And between actually owning the Prudential Center and their track record with office development across the region, I surmise Boston Properties would jump at the opportunity to purchase and construct a couple office towers or mixed-use at this location.
 
JumboBuc said:
There is plenty of terra firma under the Hynes. About 1/3 of the parcel is air rights, but the whole SW portion (everything along Dalton South of Cambria, in front of the Sheraton) is solid ground. You could easily fit a Pru or a One Dalton on the land south of the Pike land without building anything on air rights.
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Correct. Why i've been saying they could plop a ~600' tower right there,
to go along with about ~625-650' at the East end of the Sheraton site.

The Boylston Sq, Copley Tower, Columbus Ctr, 1000 Boylston fiascos span 20 years. They're cautionary tales to the risk of pushing for transformative impact projects in Back Bay. It is going to have a chilling effect going forward, where City and State officials will continue sell pipe dreams to developers: except this time, developers won't be coming back..... Local and state government doesn't meet the developers half way--doesn't pony up with creative help, such as bonds for zero interest loans for site prep, w/ deferred, low-interest balloon payments.

There's nothing getting done because there's a lack of coordinated, goal oriented leadership being applied to these projects. The priority to get them done hasn't risen above the level of resistance that stops them.

The other problem is the planning authority doesn't know how to flex its muscle and lead more realistic development. We end up with phony air rights projects and mid-rise boxes, with a minimum of transformative size, impact, & public benefit.

Until we get an air rights project with a big truss and tall highrise >400' going up, the so called air rights thing will be what it's been for so long: fake news.
 
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whighlander said:
Jeff that's the argument that used to be made when there were no hotels close to the BCEC except the Seaport

Now when the new Omni is completed there will be nearly 2000 rooms directly connected to the BCEC with at least 5 other hotels of various sizes and costs located within an easy walk -- that could handle all of the small size events with a wing devoted to such [small exhibition floor, lots of break-out rooms, small auditorium] and a huge ballroom which is currently missing from Boston.

You might then be able to hold 2 or even 3 events in the same building -- that is what is usually done in most convention centers around the world

For the really Big events you need to use dedicated buses as there is no way that you could handle 20,000 plus meeting attendees [500 booths] using the T even if there was the necessary infrastructure
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Yes, BCEC will have 2,000 room connected indoors, once the Omni is completed.

The Hynes has more than 3,000 room directly connected indoors. Plus another 1,000 rooms with less than 100 ft walk outdoors to indoor connection.

Hynes still way out competes the BCEC in attractiveness for smaller winter meetings. It is really no comparison for a meeting organizer.
 
Hold on. Parcel 15 was approved and the site cleared and porta-potties delivered .. and THEN Weiner Ventures cancels it?

What does that have to do with the Hynes sale, if anything?

From the developer:

“The 1000 Boylston project in Boston’s Back Bay set out to transform an undeveloped highway overpass into a hub of residential and retail activity, providing significant urban design and quality of life benefits while stimulating economic growth,” the Weiner Ventures team said in a statement late Friday. “The 1000 Boylston team will not proceed with the project. A combination of factors led us to this decision. While disappointing to have to make such a decision, we believe it is the correct one, and still paves the way for other future air rights projects to come to fruition.”
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Few points:
1. People who are surprised that Hynes is not doing very well are forgetting that both Hynes and BCEC are owned by the same MCCA. They can move costs and push events around to show whatever they want to show. I'm pretty sure if MCAA wanted to show that Hynes is profitable and BCEC is not they could do it too.
2. I doubt any private operator can sustain Hynes as convention center and pay property and other taxes at commercial rates. Most likely Hynes will be redeveloped which is going to impact Prudential mall and all those hotels around in a not so good way at least in a short term.
3. I'm pretty sure Weiner caught the wind of this and figured that it would make much more sense to see what's coming out of this: no convention center - no need for truck access etc. and this whole project can be redesigned to increase profitability...
 
All the talk about how much of an opportunity this is when air rights parcels, even ground parcels and other less dense buildings are available a few hundred feet away or in the area.

This just doesn't add up. I look at the Hynes and I see a building fulfilling its intended purpose which could continue to do so. Seems a waste of a good building that just needs some normal maintenance when there are so many better ways to spend taxpayer money on redevelopment rather than on a wrecking ball.

That could be a 700 million to a billion dollar building in today's money. Spending $200 million to keep it going is reasonable.

And going tall here would be a bit crowded. Better to go tall another block away to keep some spacing and better lines of sight.

I get the politics... city gets property tax revenue, Baker gets to start getting the state out of the convention business. Dems get a bunch of union construction jobs, Republicans get to deconstruct another state owned enterprise that competes unfairly in the free market and is a bastion of dem patronage jobs... political and ideological wins all round.

The math is just a bit fuzzy... and it does feel a bit like knocking down your house just after the mortgage is paid off.
 
The Bisnow site has some more info.

www.bisnow.com

Selling Hynes Convention Center To Developers Part Of Baker’s BCEC Expansion Plan

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker is ready to expand Boston's main convention center at the expense of a smaller one requiring $200M in upkeep costs.
www.bisnow.com www.bisnow.com

I like the idea that the land south of the BCEC will go back to Boston. Maybe get more housing or how about an all purpose, 25K seat, stadium. Just a thought.
 
[QUOTE="tangent, post: 357732, member: 3438"
And going tall here would be a bit crowded. Better to go tall another block away to keep some spacing and better lines of sight.
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Just keep in mind that shadow laws (on Copley) and the FAA restrictions leave little wiggle room on potential sites to eclipse the Hancock. This might be the best opportunity to do that in the Back Bay. Something 900'+ would really change the visual dynamics of the whole city. On the other hand, another flat-top ~750'-790' would look ridiculous.
 
BeeLine said:
The Bisnow site has some more info.

www.bisnow.com

Selling Hynes Convention Center To Developers Part Of Baker’s BCEC Expansion Plan

Massachusetts Gov. Charlie Baker is ready to expand Boston's main convention center at the expense of a smaller one requiring $200M in upkeep costs.
www.bisnow.com www.bisnow.com

I like the idea that the land south of the BCEC will go back to Boston. Maybe get more housing or how about an all purpose, 25K seat, stadium. Just a thought.
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Would a stadium really fit in that space? A soccer stadium in the City would be awesome, I couldn't imagine that Southie would ever let that happen here though!!
 
I personally think any idea coming from Baker is probably a bad idea... not sure if its feasible but a better idea than selling it is leasing a corner of it for 99 years or whatever, allowing a developer to build a tower and either the renovation of the entire Hynes happens that way or the state gets the funds from the lease and renovates it. Giving up PRIME grade A land is just a terrible idea that's mortgaging the future to fund now. All Baker knows how to do is go the route of least resistance, he never takes the best course of action if it may be more difficult. Such a weasel.
 
Anyone care to comment about the Sheraton losing much of it's northern views once a tower is blocking it? Unless the company chooses to tear down that tower and incorporate a new hotel into the expanded Hynes/Sheraton footprint....
 
Crazy Ideas Pitch: Alternate use considerations for the Hynes Convention Center (aside from Office/Retail):
- Revolution Stadium or new Patriots Stadium (the Hynes footprint is just large enough for an urban stadium)
- Esports arena (apparently a growing industry to watch)
- Celtics/Bruins arena (i.e. split teams up from TD Garden. Doing this would enable Boston to simultaneously host multiple arena-sized concerts that counter program one another, and would help with logistics for convocation ceremonies)
- Change the law--leverage the hotel volume and bring a casino to the Back Bay! :lol:
- Hyperloop Station (again, leveraging the hotel volume, T/Pike connectivity, and even commuter rail access... if private hyperloop service ever becomes a service option across New England, the Hynes site would be an excellent option)
 
Smartiro said:
Few points:
...
2. I doubt any private operator can sustain Hynes as convention center and pay property and other taxes at commercial rates. Most likely Hynes will be redeveloped which is going to impact Prudential mall and all those hotels around in a not so good way at least in a short term.
...
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The Boston hotel market is so strong that I have no doubt the Sheraton, Marriott , Westin, etc. would be fine without the Hynes. Hotel operators like the Hynes because its easier to reserve a big block of hotel rooms for a group rather than sell each room separately. It makes more sense to have one (slightly) larger convention center to sell to groups of various sizes. Why not compromise and have the state require the private developer retain enough convention/banquet space for small groups in their new high rise hotel/office/residential tower on the Hynes site.
 
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Life Coach Mike said:
Anyone care to comment about the Sheraton losing much of it's northern views once a tower is blocking it? Unless the company chooses to tear down that tower and incorporate a new hotel into the expanded Hynes/Sheraton footprint....
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If a tower is proposed involving a significant change in zoning there will probably be a huge fight from One Dalton residents. The Charles and Back Bay views are spectacular above about the 35th floor and the prices reflect that. Losing those views would likely result in massive devaluation of those units.
 
kmp1284 said:
If a tower is proposed involving a significant change in zoning there will probably be a huge fight from One Dalton residents. The Charles and Back Bay views are spectacular above about the 35th floor and the prices reflect that. Losing those views would likely result in massive devaluation of those units.
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I doubt they'd do it publicly - makes them look privileged and petty.
 
kmp1284 said:
Probably not but they’ll still lobby quietly and make use of the courts if necessary and appropriate.
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Right, those aren’t the kind of people who are going to want to fight it on the front page of the Globe. They’ll hit harder and behind the scenes.
 
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