atlantaden
Senior Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2006
- Messages
- 2,575
- Reaction score
- 2,535
So, how does a guy, who sounds like he might be off his medication, get such positive press?
lexicon506
Active Member
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 549
- Reaction score
- 249
Yah, I agree, someone needs to call the local penitentiary. The geese are coming to get you!! :twisted:
We all like living in our dilapidated neighborhoods anyway, who needs the green line?
We all like living in our dilapidated neighborhoods anyway, who needs the green line?
palindrome
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 2,266
- Reaction score
- 117
2016 i doubt it will be completed even then!
Sensationalism over substance.
atlantaden said:
Sensationalism over substance.
B
BostonSkyGuy
Guest
Does anyone who proposes these extensions even ride the T? It seems like they have no idea what the hell they're talking about/doing when it comes to extension of service.
They make it sound like no one has ever thought about extending the green-line to Medford so they're "working out the kinks" so to speak in order to figure out the "best"(cheapest/easiest/etc.) way to go about the extension. This stuff should have been thought about years ago. Always a day late and (many) dollars short around here.
They make it sound like no one has ever thought about extending the green-line to Medford so they're "working out the kinks" so to speak in order to figure out the "best"(cheapest/easiest/etc.) way to go about the extension. This stuff should have been thought about years ago. Always a day late and (many) dollars short around here.
JoeSixpack
New member
- Joined
- Mar 1, 2007
- Messages
- 20
- Reaction score
- 0
This was a bone trown in as a concession to the surface traffic suffered by Medford and Somerville during the Dig. The people I know in Somerville are very excited about the prospect.
I lived there and can't recall a dissenter.
This guy in Medford has an opinion. He is entitled to it. It will not stop this ball rolling.
The neighborhoods want it. The Unions like it. Somerville government is like a rabid dog on not getting screwed out of it. and Union Square is giddy to be on a map.
It's about time a project of this size and impact fell on a blue collar area, and returned much of the money earned directly to that area, while providing a service that will continue to add to the equity of those neighborhoods by virtue of it's existence.
I can see no downside to this project in the least. It is a plus for politicians, neighborhoods and labor. As well as the communities it will serve. These are really great neighborhoods too. With real sustainable businesses. Which also will be beneficiaries.
Why did I ever move across the River.... :lol:
I lived there and can't recall a dissenter.
This guy in Medford has an opinion. He is entitled to it. It will not stop this ball rolling.
The neighborhoods want it. The Unions like it. Somerville government is like a rabid dog on not getting screwed out of it. and Union Square is giddy to be on a map.
It's about time a project of this size and impact fell on a blue collar area, and returned much of the money earned directly to that area, while providing a service that will continue to add to the equity of those neighborhoods by virtue of it's existence.
I can see no downside to this project in the least. It is a plus for politicians, neighborhoods and labor. As well as the communities it will serve. These are really great neighborhoods too. With real sustainable businesses. Which also will be beneficiaries.
Why did I ever move across the River.... :lol:
C
chris
Guest
How many years are they saying now? Nine?
Why does the state have to get federal funds BEFORE it actually starts the project. Couldn't it start the project and still apply for the funds? Seems to me clearly a delay tactic for whatever reason.
Why does the state have to get federal funds BEFORE it actually starts the project. Couldn't it start the project and still apply for the funds? Seems to me clearly a delay tactic for whatever reason.
belmont square
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 19, 2006
- Messages
- 365
- Reaction score
- 0
There may be some unintended downsides if the MBTA redirects operating resources away from the three bus routes that would overlap the Green Line extension due to decreased ridership. There are places in Somerville or Medford (such as Magoun Sq or the center of Highland Ave) where T riders may not view the benefits of a Green Line station 10 minutes walk away as worth the tradeoff of decreased frequency of bus service on the corridor/square in which they live.
In particular, the elderly or disabled--people who are often reliant on public transit--would stand to suffer from any shift of resources away from frequent stop bus service to infrequent stop rail service. For the non-elderly/disabled population, the increased frequency and speed of the Green Line probably results in improved service, or at worst a wash for the locations listed above.
Of course, the T could increase the frequency on these three bus routes to rapid transit levels without hundreds of millions of dollars in capital investment, but that's another story.
palindrome
Senior Member
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2006
- Messages
- 2,266
- Reaction score
- 117
The Kinky-Shiro type 7 cars albeit dependable as anything will be 28 years old by the time the Medford extension is expected to be complete.
whighlander
Senior Member
- Joined
- Aug 14, 2006
- Messages
- 7,812
- Reaction score
- 647
Transit Vehicles are always full of NRE
Transit Vehicles are always full of NRE {Non Recurrent Engineering}
The last time that there was an off the shelf design that you could just order was the old {and still running} PCC. The car was designed by the Electric Railway Presidents' Conference Committee {ERPCC}, representing various electric street railways in 1929. PCC was created by a consortium of Transit Systems and licensed to anyone who wanted to build them -- but that was in the day when there were still lots of light rail vehicles in many cities called Street Cars. There are still some PCCs in Boston running on the Mattapan High Speed Trolley Line out of Ashmont on the Red Line. The following information on the PCC is adapted from an article in the Wikipedia {including a few pictures} see [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCC_streetcar [/url]
The PCC design featured a distinctive streamlined body with and smooth acceleration and braking. The first batch of 100 cars was built in 1936 for Brooklyn, New York, by the Saint Louis Car Company; Pittsburgh Railways took "delivery of # 100, the first delivered PCC car and 4977 more units were built in North America by St. Louis Car Company, Pullman Standard, Clark Equipment and Canada Car and Foundry in Montr?al, Quebec until the early 1950s. Thousands more PCCs and derivatives have been produced in Europe since 1942 by Italian Fiat {for Madrid}; La Brugeoise et Nivelles of Bruges, Belgium {for Brussels, Antwerp, Ghent, The Hague, etc} in Spain by CAF (Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles) in Beasain and MMC (Material M?vil y Construcciones) in Zaragoza; by ČKD Tatra of Prague T3 {with 13 991 units were sold worldwide}; Polish Konstal in Chorz?w, {13N type still used in Warsaw}.
Today when each Transit System needs some vehicles, they follow this process:
1) Develop a Preliminary Design Specification
2) Go our for Proposals
3) Develop the semi-final design
4) Get final Bids for prototypes
5) A few years later the first of the new vehicles arrives from the manufacturer for preliminary testing
6) After another year or so the manufacturer can tweak the design and the volume production can begin
7) Usually there are some final tweaks as the new vehicles are introduced to the system.
The whole process typically takes 6 or more years.
The T has just gone through the process with the Green Line low-floor "Breda Cars" and they are still having some tweaks. The T is in the middle of the process for the Blue Line right now. I'm guessing that if they started to draw up the specs today -- you wouldn't see the first of the new Green Line "Somerville Cars" until 2012 and they wouldn't be fully integrated into the system until 2015.
Westy
[/url]
Transit Vehicles are always full of NRE {Non Recurrent Engineering}
The last time that there was an off the shelf design that you could just order was the old {and still running} PCC. The car was designed by the Electric Railway Presidents' Conference Committee {ERPCC}, representing various electric street railways in 1929. PCC was created by a consortium of Transit Systems and licensed to anyone who wanted to build them -- but that was in the day when there were still lots of light rail vehicles in many cities called Street Cars. There are still some PCCs in Boston running on the Mattapan High Speed Trolley Line out of Ashmont on the Red Line. The following information on the PCC is adapted from an article in the Wikipedia {including a few pictures} see [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCC_streetcar [/url]
The PCC design featured a distinctive streamlined body with and smooth acceleration and braking. The first batch of 100 cars was built in 1936 for Brooklyn, New York, by the Saint Louis Car Company; Pittsburgh Railways took "delivery of # 100, the first delivered PCC car and 4977 more units were built in North America by St. Louis Car Company, Pullman Standard, Clark Equipment and Canada Car and Foundry in Montr?al, Quebec until the early 1950s. Thousands more PCCs and derivatives have been produced in Europe since 1942 by Italian Fiat {for Madrid}; La Brugeoise et Nivelles of Bruges, Belgium {for Brussels, Antwerp, Ghent, The Hague, etc} in Spain by CAF (Construcciones y Auxiliar de Ferrocarriles) in Beasain and MMC (Material M?vil y Construcciones) in Zaragoza; by ČKD Tatra of Prague T3 {with 13 991 units were sold worldwide}; Polish Konstal in Chorz?w, {13N type still used in Warsaw}.
Today when each Transit System needs some vehicles, they follow this process:
1) Develop a Preliminary Design Specification
2) Go our for Proposals
3) Develop the semi-final design
4) Get final Bids for prototypes
5) A few years later the first of the new vehicles arrives from the manufacturer for preliminary testing
6) After another year or so the manufacturer can tweak the design and the volume production can begin
7) Usually there are some final tweaks as the new vehicles are introduced to the system.
The whole process typically takes 6 or more years.
The T has just gone through the process with the Green Line low-floor "Breda Cars" and they are still having some tweaks. The T is in the middle of the process for the Blue Line right now. I'm guessing that if they started to draw up the specs today -- you wouldn't see the first of the new Green Line "Somerville Cars" until 2012 and they wouldn't be fully integrated into the system until 2015.
Westy
[/url]
C
ChunkyMonkey
Guest
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Green Line extension divides city
Green Line seen as boon or bane
By Eric Moskowitz, Globe Staff | January 27, 2008
Knowing what the Red Line extension did for Davis Square, Somerville officials and residents have pressed hard to bring the Green Line to Union Square and up through the city. Community members have packed project meetings, wearing green glow-stick necklaces and "Got T?" buttons to show their support.
But in Medford, where the line would end, people are divided. Some see the extension the same way that those in Somerville do, as a chance to enhance their neighborhoods, raise property values, and connect with the region. Others contend that property values would decline - or, if not, that gentrification brought by the T would price longtime residents out of Medford. Many worry that the state would seize land to build the project and are concerned that outsiders trying to catch the T would jam already crowded city streets. They disagree about where the line should end, and whether it should enter Medford at all.
Most of all, many in Medford feel they haven't had a say in a looming project that could change their community significantly. Underscored by tension over whether Medford is, or should be, more like Somerville or more like western neighbor Arlington, those feelings poured forth at a standing-room-only meeting at Medford City Hall Wednesday night. State officials came to the city to explain the Green Line extension and seek input as they finalize the route and station locations.
With 200 in attendance, some cheered when people declared support for the Green Line, as Medford resident and real estate agent Elizabeth Bolton did. "The thought of the T coming to Medford is just an amazing and fabulous opportunity," said Bolton, who touted the MBTA-enabled transformation of Cambridge's Porter Square, where she used to live. "It's life-changing."
Louder applause went to those who said they liked aspects of the project but would oppose physical, noise, or visual impacts, as Mayor Michael J. McGlynn did when he vowed to fight eminent-domain takings or an attempt to put a Green Line maintenance yard in Medford.
Still, the loudest applause went to those who voiced frustration and said Medford residents had been given little chance to provide input to a project that seemed ordained by officials elsewhere. "It sounds to me as if it's almost carved in granite," said Gwen Blackburn, a West Medford resident who drew multiple ovations. "I'm concerned that we may not even have a voice as to what goes in our city at all."
Stephen M. Woelfel, the lead state official for the project, tried to reassure the crowd that the details are still being developed, with plenty of time for input.
"We're trying to make this project work for everyone," said Woelfel, manager of statewide transit planning for the Executive Office of Transportation, which oversees the Green Line extension; when complete, the project will be owned and operated by the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. "We're in the beginning of the process."
Planners have talked about extending the Green Line beyond East Cambridge for nearly half a century, though the state did not commit to the project until 1990, when it pledged to make multiple transit improvements to avoid a lawsuit from the Conservation Law Foundation threatening to block the Big Dig highway project. A state transit-improvement plan, required because Massachusetts failed to meet federal Clean Air Act standards, filed the next year promised that the Green Line would be extended to Ball Square in Somerville or Tufts University in Medford by the end of 2011.
Nonetheless, the state largely ignored the project, as Big Dig costs soared above $14 billion. But pressure from the Conservation Law Foundation, Somerville officials, and others brought the Green Line extension back to the fore. The state negotiated for an extension through 2014. Then officials last summer said the project may be delayed two more years while they seek federal funding for half the estimated cost of $600 million. But in a sign of commitment in November, Governor Deval Patrick proposed a bond bill calling for the state to borrow enough money to complete the project, whether or not the federal funds come through.
Meanwhile, the Executive Office of Transportation has been refining the project. In 2004-05, the transportation office conducted a project study and analysis of alternatives, such as new commuter rail stops or a Silver Line-style bus, that incorporated public input and solidified the basic plan to run the Green Line through Somerville and into Medford on streetcars alongside the commuter rail. In late 2006, the transportation office formally notified state environmental officials about the project, and the secretary of environmental affairs responded with a 16-page certificate that established the work and analysis the transportation office would need to perform for an environmental impact report.
That's where the project stands. The office is working on the report, which will incorporate public input and answer a host of important questions, such as where the stations would go, what they would look like, what the noise and visual effects would be, and what land would be needed to accommodate the expanded railroad right-of-way. The state's top environmental official also called for the project to be completed in a way that maximizes transit and environmental benefits and enhances the character of the project's communities.
In the process, the transportation office will also decide whether the extension should end at Tufts or continue through Medford's Hillside neighborhood to Route 16 and the Mystic River. It will also evaluate how best to route the T to Union Square.
Some in Medford believe the community should have already reached a consensus on the project, for the sake of self-advocacy.
The City Council last week approved a resolution calling on the mayor to hire a full-time planner to focus on the Green Line and seek state funds.
"Somerville is driving the bus on this, and Medford should at least be copiloting somewhere along the way, and have a unified voice about what we want," said City Councilor Frederick N. Dello Russo, who leads the council's transportation subcommittee.
Article URL:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/27/green_line_extension_divides_city/?page=2
Green Line extension divides city
Green Line seen as boon or bane
By Eric Moskowitz, Globe Staff | January 27, 2008
Knowing what the Red Line extension did for Davis Square, Somerville officials and residents have pressed hard to bring the Green Line to Union Square and up through the city. Community members have packed project meetings, wearing green glow-stick necklaces and "Got T?" buttons to show their support.
But in Medford, where the line would end, people are divided. Some see the extension the same way that those in Somerville do, as a chance to enhance their neighborhoods, raise property values, and connect with the region. Others contend that property values would decline - or, if not, that gentrification brought by the T would price longtime residents out of Medford. Many worry that the state would seize land to build the project and are concerned that outsiders trying to catch the T would jam already crowded city streets. They disagree about where the line should end, and whether it should enter Medford at all.
Most of all, many in Medford feel they haven't had a say in a looming project that could change their community significantly. Underscored by tension over whether Medford is, or should be, more like Somerville or more like western neighbor Arlington, those feelings poured forth at a standing-room-only meeting at Medford City Hall Wednesday night. State officials came to the city to explain the Green Line extension and seek input as they finalize the route and station locations.
With 200 in attendance, some cheered when people declared support for the Green Line, as Medford resident and real estate agent Elizabeth Bolton did. "The thought of the T coming to Medford is just an amazing and fabulous opportunity," said Bolton, who touted the MBTA-enabled transformation of Cambridge's Porter Square, where she used to live. "It's life-changing."
Louder applause went to those who said they liked aspects of the project but would oppose physical, noise, or visual impacts, as Mayor Michael J. McGlynn did when he vowed to fight eminent-domain takings or an attempt to put a Green Line maintenance yard in Medford.
Still, the loudest applause went to those who voiced frustration and said Medford residents had been given little chance to provide input to a project that seemed ordained by officials elsewhere. "It sounds to me as if it's almost carved in granite," said Gwen Blackburn, a West Medford resident who drew multiple ovations. "I'm concerned that we may not even have a voice as to what goes in our city at all."
Stephen M. Woelfel, the lead state official for the project, tried to reassure the crowd that the details are still being developed, with plenty of time for input.
"We're trying to make this project work for everyone," said Woelfel, manager of statewide transit planning for the Executive Office of Transportation, which oversees the Green Line extension; when complete, the project will be owned and operated by the Massachusetts Bay Transportation Authority. "We're in the beginning of the process."
Planners have talked about extending the Green Line beyond East Cambridge for nearly half a century, though the state did not commit to the project until 1990, when it pledged to make multiple transit improvements to avoid a lawsuit from the Conservation Law Foundation threatening to block the Big Dig highway project. A state transit-improvement plan, required because Massachusetts failed to meet federal Clean Air Act standards, filed the next year promised that the Green Line would be extended to Ball Square in Somerville or Tufts University in Medford by the end of 2011.
Nonetheless, the state largely ignored the project, as Big Dig costs soared above $14 billion. But pressure from the Conservation Law Foundation, Somerville officials, and others brought the Green Line extension back to the fore. The state negotiated for an extension through 2014. Then officials last summer said the project may be delayed two more years while they seek federal funding for half the estimated cost of $600 million. But in a sign of commitment in November, Governor Deval Patrick proposed a bond bill calling for the state to borrow enough money to complete the project, whether or not the federal funds come through.
Meanwhile, the Executive Office of Transportation has been refining the project. In 2004-05, the transportation office conducted a project study and analysis of alternatives, such as new commuter rail stops or a Silver Line-style bus, that incorporated public input and solidified the basic plan to run the Green Line through Somerville and into Medford on streetcars alongside the commuter rail. In late 2006, the transportation office formally notified state environmental officials about the project, and the secretary of environmental affairs responded with a 16-page certificate that established the work and analysis the transportation office would need to perform for an environmental impact report.
That's where the project stands. The office is working on the report, which will incorporate public input and answer a host of important questions, such as where the stations would go, what they would look like, what the noise and visual effects would be, and what land would be needed to accommodate the expanded railroad right-of-way. The state's top environmental official also called for the project to be completed in a way that maximizes transit and environmental benefits and enhances the character of the project's communities.
In the process, the transportation office will also decide whether the extension should end at Tufts or continue through Medford's Hillside neighborhood to Route 16 and the Mystic River. It will also evaluate how best to route the T to Union Square.
Some in Medford believe the community should have already reached a consensus on the project, for the sake of self-advocacy.
The City Council last week approved a resolution calling on the mayor to hire a full-time planner to focus on the Green Line and seek state funds.
"Somerville is driving the bus on this, and Medford should at least be copiloting somewhere along the way, and have a unified voice about what we want," said City Councilor Frederick N. Dello Russo, who leads the council's transportation subcommittee.
Article URL:
http://www.boston.com/news/local/articles/2008/01/27/green_line_extension_divides_city/?page=2
- Joined
- May 25, 2006
- Messages
- 6,961
- Reaction score
- 1,578
Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011
Probably because someone would sue the state if they didn't extend it all the way to Medford. It's damned if you do, damn edif you don't.
Probably because someone would sue the state if they didn't extend it all the way to Medford. It's damned if you do, damn edif you don't.