MBTA Bus & BRT

ant8904

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I have to chime with Vagabond. Last time I heard about this, they manage to finally get them to allow its usuage in a very restricted format. I did not hear about any "failure" or end to the program. Where are y'all getting the information from?
 

MjolnirMan

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The Fed DOT 2007 evaluation of the Silver Line project includes a map showing the route THEY THOUGHT the bus would be following. Since the Feds paid for a huge chunk of the Silver Line, they should know the expected route. Note where it enters the TWT.



Reference doc:
https://www.transit.dot.gov/sites/fta.dot.gov/files/FINALBOSTONBRTREPORT062507.pdf
Also the fact that the ramp is named "Silver Line Way" on maps.

While the ideal solution to all of this would be to have built the harbor tunnel for the SL correctly in the first place, what about this? Extend the (bus-only) highway onramp to D street across from the Haul Road ramp, and excavate the ramp where that little parking lot is now, to double the ramp distance and allow more merge distance at the highway grade.



You'd have to disconnect the SL1 from electric during boarding at WTC, and skip the Silver Line Way stop outbound, and then there's the minor ramp reconstruction, but I think these would be more than acceptable sacrifices to get to the airport faster.
 

HelloBostonHi

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Also the fact that the ramp is named "Silver Line Way" on maps.
This is something I hear thrown around endlessly by transit advocates all over but I've never found a reputable source for it. In fact I've never found any source pointing towards this being true.
 

stevebikes

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Anyone know what happened to the original routing of SL3 down L street? Seems like a no-brainer now with the bus routes down there.
Canned due to low ridership
My understanding is the original plan was for this to basically follow the 9 route - City Point, east to P or Farragut, then dedicated lanes on Broadway, then turn to the Seaport at D. The usual suspects killed that and we ended up with this stubby route that no one took because the 7 bus was (at the time) better since it did pickups where people actually lived, as far south as 4th.
 

JeffDowntown

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This is something I hear thrown around endlessly by transit advocates all over but I've never found a reputable source for it. In fact I've never found any source pointing towards this being true.
For years it was labeled that way on Google Maps. Sorry I didn't archive copies to allay your skepticism.
 

Arlington

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Let me blow your mind: how about we lengthen the ramp and make its slope gentler by taking the little parking lot? I bet the police would be happy to have all their parking in a single chunk.

There's nothing special about today's mid-block access (is there?), that couldn't be moved 200' toward D st and a new curb cut. Move it as far as the turning radius of an articulated bus permits.

That way the Police could totally separately gate their access too.

Or let me blow your mind even further: Have buses going to the airport do a
onto D and a
onto a new downramp from D and skip the Silver Line Way stop.

[Reversed left/right]​
 
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whittle

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Or let me blow your mind even further: Have buses going to the airport do a left onto D and a right onto a new downramp from D and skip the Silver Line Way stop.
I'm assuming you mixed up left and right?
 

HelloBostonHi

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For years it was labeled that way on Google Maps. Sorry I didn't archive copies to allay your skepticism.
Anyone can edit Google maps, I've personally renamed roads on Google maps before. I'm talking a real source, something more official than Google maps.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Let me blow your mind: how about we lengthen the ramp and make its slope gentler by taking the little parking lot? I bet the police would be happy to have all their parking in a single chunk.

There's nothing special about today's mid-block access (is there?), that couldn't be moved 200' toward D st and a new curb cut. Move it as far as the turning radius of an articulated bus permits.

That way the Police could totally separately gate their access too.

Or let me blow your mind even further: Have buses going to the airport do a
onto D and a
onto a new downramp from D and skip the Silver Line Way stop.

[Reversed left/right]​


You're going to modify a ramp with a retaining wall like this??? I don't think so.


Here's the only source that matters on ramp merges: AASHTO's Policy on Design Standards. Highly technical because design speed, grade, and stuff you'd have to search elsewhere for in that 1000 page guide like when exactly an accel strip is deemed to have begun all end up factoring in the 'correct' answer. But anyone who wants to take a gander at 'bunking/debunking Ramp-gate by solving this riddle with real math instead of supposition and personal attacks can let 'er rip with these Figures.​
 

Charlie_mta

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The only solution to make this on ramp comply with merge lane standards is to widen the eastbound tunneled portion for a hundred feet or so where the ramp joins it, which would be a project of Big Dig proportions. However, it is feasible from an engineering standpoint as there are no buildings above that short portion of the tunnel.
 

chmeeee

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You're going to modify a ramp with a retaining wall like this??? I don't think so.


Here's the only source that matters on ramp merges: AASHTO's Policy on Design Standards. Highly technical because design speed, grade, and stuff you'd have to search elsewhere for in that 1000 page guide like when exactly an accel strip is deemed to have begun all end up factoring in the 'correct' answer. But anyone who wants to take a gander at 'bunking/debunking Ramp-gate by solving this riddle with real math instead of supposition and personal attacks can let 'er rip with these Figures.
Per AASHTO, a design speed of 45 mph (posted limit in the tunnel) requires 560 feet. Google maps measuring gives me... 590 feet from the curve on the ramp to the merge point. This CANNOT be a coincidence. This measurement is correct per the diagram at the bottom of exhibit 10-70.

I'll put $100 on a bet that they're doing the classic over conservative DOT method of adding 5 or 10 to the speed limit and using that as a criteria.
 

HelloBostonHi

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Per AASHTO, a design speed of 45 mph (posted limit in the tunnel) requires 560 feet. Google maps measuring gives me... 590 feet from the curve on the ramp to the merge point. This CANNOT be a coincidence. This measurement is correct per the diagram at the bottom of exhibit 10-70.

I'll put $100 on a bet that they're doing the classic over conservative DOT method of adding 5 or 10 to the speed limit and using that as a criteria.
Does AASHTO account for articulated dual mode buses though? Because they actually accelerate slower than any other bus in the fleet according to the MBTA. Although I must say it doesn't feel like it as I get flung over my luggage every time that bus gets going.
 

F-Line to Dudley

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Does AASHTO account for articulated dual mode buses though? Because they actually accelerate slower than any other bus in the fleet according to the MBTA. Although I must say it doesn't feel like it as I get flung over my luggage every time that bus gets going.
AASHTO standards are flat for vehicle type, so that doesn't matter. The baseline standard accounts for all street-legal vehicles on a limited-access highway. That includes big rigs, but does not include special cases like wide-load transports that require an escort to use the infrastructure. Since this ramp would be restricted to only buses and emergency vehicles, it's not a factor for the very slowest-accelerating trucks accounted for within the design standards. Thus, if MassDOT is worried about padding-over-standard on accel length its concern is only with the midrange of vehicle acceleration not the extremes.
 

JumboBuc

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Per AASHTO, a design speed of 45 mph (posted limit in the tunnel) requires 560 feet. Google maps measuring gives me... 590 feet from the curve on the ramp to the merge point. This CANNOT be a coincidence. This measurement is correct per the diagram at the bottom of exhibit 10-70.

I'll put $100 on a bet that they're doing the classic over conservative DOT method of adding 5 or 10 to the speed limit and using that as a criteria.
As Ari Ofsevit has pointed out 100 times, the ramp from Newbury to the Pike is shorter than this ramp, and as are multiple ramps to the Tobin that MBTA busses use hundreds of times daily.

I (mistakenly) took the SL to the Airport on Friday. It took more than an hour to get from the platform in South Station to Terminal C. The State Police onramp "detour" alone added 17 minutes, 29 seconds to the trip (I timed it on my phone). I don't know the exact capacity of one of those busses, but given the way people were crammed in shoulder-to-shoulder I'd say at least 24 person-hours were wasted.
 

JeffDowntown

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As Ari Ofsevit has pointed out 100 times, the ramp from Newbury to the Pike is shorter than this ramp, and as are multiple ramps to the Tobin that MBTA busses use hundreds of times daily.

I (mistakenly) took the SL to the Airport on Friday. It took more than an hour to get from the platform in South Station to Terminal C. The State Police onramp "detour" alone added 17 minutes, 29 seconds to the trip (I timed it on my phone). I don't know the exact capacity of one of those busses, but given the way people were crammed in shoulder-to-shoulder I'd say at least 24 person-hours were wasted.
The SL1 must make an appearance on one of Dante's Seven Circles of Hell.

The Great and General Court should be required to conduct all transportation related business while riding the SL1.
 

HelloBostonHi

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As Ari Ofsevit has pointed out 100 times, the ramp from Newbury to the Pike is shorter than this ramp, and as are multiple ramps to the Tobin that MBTA busses use hundreds of times daily.
And I have never seen an articulated bus using those ramps, much less a slower dual mode articulated bus. Correct me if I'm wrong but those routes are all 40ft buses?
 

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