Parcel JK | Cambridge Crossing | Cambridge

SHAZBAT73

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

Listed on Emporis also
 

Czervik.Construction

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

DivcoWest: We would like to propose a building in Northpoint.

City of Cambridge: Great, is it a boxy, sort of glassy, sort or pre-cast 10 story thing that looks like everything else in Kendall Square?

DivcoWest: Errm, no. It is a 40-story, Herzog & de Meuron tower. We think it will be a great addition to Cambridge, an iconic structure.

City of Cambridge: Let me repeat myself. Is it a boxy, sort of glassy, sort or pre-cast 10 story thing that looks like everything else in Kendall Square?

DivcoWest (head hanging low): Yeah...here is our alternate plan... 10 stories, boxy, you got it.

City of Cambridge: Perfect!!
 

bigpicture7

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

DivcoWest: We would like to propose a building in Northpoint.

City of Cambridge: Great, is it a boxy, sort of glassy, sort or pre-cast 10 story thing that looks like everything else in Kendall Square?

DivcoWest: Errm, no. It is a 40-story, Herzog & de Meuron tower. We think it will be a great addition to Cambridge, an iconic structure.

City of Cambridge: Let me repeat myself. Is it a boxy, sort of glassy, sort or pre-cast 10 story thing that looks like everything else in Kendall Square?

DivcoWest (head hanging low): Yeah...here is our alternate plan... 10 stories, boxy, you got it.

City of Cambridge: Perfect!!

Thank you for the chuckle. But from the looks of the renders, this is clearly a biotech building w/ associated mechanicals and chemical vent stacks. You don't generally do biotech structures at > 10 stories. I think, in part, we just have to accept that this is the primary greater-Kendall office market right now.
 

SeamusMcFly

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

The Center for Life Sciences (3 Blackfan Circle) at 18 storeys and just about 300 feet, has been there for almost 10 years at this point. At some point we need to get past this, labs only go 10 storeys or less thought process. It's said on here so many times, that it would seem most take it as gospel.

There is no reason labs can't got tall. The Vertex buildings are both 18 storeys including penthouses, but are a bit shorter at about 250 feet. We recently completed Alexion's HQ in New Haven, at 14 storeys (and awarded LEED Platinum recently.)

There are added costs for things, especially if doing heavy chemistry like at Vertex. But, not impossible.

As I've mentioned before. Put the labs on top, so you don't need all that HVAC shaft space on office floors, and go even taller. Get creative, don't just spout the same old, labs don't go tall mantra. If we keep building short boxy labs only, I'll have to turn into Odorono Cambridge style, and say we're running out of space.
 

bigpicture7

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

The Center for Life Sciences (3 Blackfan Circle) at 18 storeys and just about 300 feet, has been there for almost 10 years at this point. At some point we need to get past this, labs only go 10 storeys or less thought process. It's said on here so many times, that it would seem most take it as gospel.

There is no reason labs can't got tall. The Vertex buildings are both 18 storeys including penthouses, but are a bit shorter at about 250 feet. We recently completed Alexion's HQ in New Haven, at 14 storeys (and awarded LEED Platinum recently.)

There are added costs for things, especially if doing heavy chemistry like at Vertex. But, not impossible.

As I've mentioned before. Put the labs on top, so you don't need all that HVAC shaft space on office floors, and go even taller. Get creative, don't just spout the same old, labs don't go tall mantra. If we keep building short boxy labs only, I'll have to turn into Odorono Cambridge style, and say we're running out of space.
It gets very expensive, very quickly to do a tall lab building. Believe me, I am generally a height fan (and would love to see Cambridge make max. use of the precious few parcels around Kendall and in East Cambridge).

There are competing forces at play: Doing all the chemical HVAC stuff if the building is tall is expensive, especially if the labs are at lower floors or distributed throughout...but if you put the labs at the upper floors (as you suggest), you need to service them. Busy labs need infrastructure: chemical delivery, gas tanks...the AirGas and Linde people are using service elevators constantly, etc. Needing extra elevators, extra plumbing, etc, all makes it more expensive.

There are costs if the labs are on low floors, and there are costs if the labs are on high floors.

So, yeah it can be done (my wife worked at the CLS building for a few years and used to talk about how it was the tallest lab building she'd ever seen). But until companies don't have a choice, why would they voluntarily build a tall lab building?

(I'm not trying to be an ass, I just don't see the economics of it)
 

SeamusMcFly

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

I believe you. I have to. I worked on all of the buildings above. The MIT building 3 will be 12 storeys of lab/office plus two mech penthouses. We'll make that work too.

It's harder to "force" or even convince people to do something everyone seems to think is undoable.

Chemical delivery systems add cost, but they become necessary as you grow taller. The need for retail on many buildings already starts making this a requirement. NFPA has chemical limits that decrease as you get higher in the building. So putting chemistry labs up higher drives this. But, losing hundreds of vertical feet of ducting from chemical fume hoods becomes a pretty good trade off.

Cylinder and dewar deliver is a part of lab life. They go up the service elevator like everyone else. Or, bulk systems on many larger buildings get filled at the base without ever entering the building.

Not sure on extra plumbing, aside from larger water mains to get the non-potable water up higher. The waste treatment system can happen higher if the labs are above office. No biggie. Put everything in a mid level mech. room (much like vertex.)

Does it cost more? Yup. Prohibitively so? Not really, or we wouldn't already be doing it.
When it's a core shell developer building. The extra costs are picked up in the lease numbers, not as big a risk in the hot market Kendall is, and will remain for quite some time.
 

bigpicture7

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

^ I think it is very cool that someone who works on these types of buildings is a creative thinker/willing to push the envelope. I hope we can indeed figure out how best to build lab buildings tall. Please don't mistake my pragmatism as being against what you're striving for - you couldn't have a bigger supporter!

Btw, what I meant by extra plumbing is w/ regard to "house" gas systems or specialty fluids systems. Many of the labs I'm familiar with take advantage of having large storage tanks outside at ground level (literally just outside the lab walls), so it's cheaper to service these tanks and to plumb the labs for specialty fluids/gases.

I think you are right that there are economies associated with with putting the labs up higher in a mid-rise building, height being equal...it seems plausible that cost savings from the fume hood ducts would be greater than the things I mention. But my point is that you don't get to shed all extra costs by moving the labs up higher...you incur some new costs.

I think there's opportunity in Cambridge/Boston for folks to propose creative solutions to tall lab buildings - if not here, then where? We're a space starved biotech hub!
 

Brad Plaid

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

From Ivyhedge in the North Point thread about JK:
According to materials we (S+T owners) received last week, the building should be between 130'-150', differing slightly from the original plans (now 9 stories instead of 11, plus mechanicals: 455k gross ft^2).
 

odurandina

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

our residential and office buildings are shaped like boxes, ocean liners and airport terminals and that ain't......
 

Czervik.Construction

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

I know what you are saying, but that does not mean it has to be dull and look like everything else in the area.

As someone who has had to manage lab space construction in the past, it is a royal pain moving the air around and all the special needs for biotech labs. I would either prefer more creative 10-story lab building or 30+ story residential. I think this is the perfect area to go tall.

Thank you for the chuckle. But from the looks of the renders, this is clearly a biotech building w/ associated mechanicals and chemical vent stacks. You don't generally do biotech structures at > 10 stories. I think, in part, we just have to accept that this is the primary greater-Kendall office market right now.
 

odurandina

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

Absolutely. Cambridge is stuck in 8-20-story Boston theology.

And it's very sad they're not going VERY tall here at least a few times
instead, it's like they're attempting to cover the land up completely....

when what they should be doing–is leaving 3 or 4 lots open until the very end. ....and go very tall on each of them!
 

ivyhedge

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

...
when what they should be doing–is leaving 3 or 4 lots open until the very end. ....and go very tall on each of them!
Something similar (to your waiting suggestion) is happening. By building the area immediately surrounding Northpoint Common, they are delaying action on the surrounding plots (which represent a band nearer to Charlestown) while they evaluate the health of speculative building projects planned for the next 5-7 years.

I noted in the original thread the anticipated updated timeline and height restrictions. The latter are Cambridge-imposed, not FAA-, of course.

Building a tower of significant height "here" (the maximum allowable by the FAA) would be comical. There's no density to support it. And it would resemble Devon Energy's OK digs. I suppose we might eventually see height like that in Cambridge, with the city eventually building taller in Kendall. Northpoint - why? We've got a landscraper (Zinc) that is mostly dark, Avalon Northpoint (whose occupancy drops significantly in the summer), and Twenty|20 (which, while quite nice is nowhere near full).

I love good architecture, and I love height when it is appropriate (even here, if a cogent argument won the day). Without some commercial and retail activation, though, even the residential grip here is tenuous.
 

ivyhedge

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

Now that I've responded to Odurandina's post, here's where we are with lot J-K.

Shot on 7 June 2017: continued installation and pounding of the bathtub steel.

 

odurandina

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

Thanks IH,

That's really cool. When i was saying very high, i was speaking to the range of AVA to Pierce or maybe even Avalon Nashua St.
 

ivyhedge

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

The work continues...

With the MBTA lot cut through now as East 1st Street, many more materials are on site. The bathtub has been in place for about two weeks, and excavation of the interior portion began before the 4 July holiday (the interior supporting tubes are on site).

A curiosity: Workers spent the morning driving framing elements similar to those used for Lot JK's bathtub into the southwest corner of Lot D (you can see some in the above image)...

 

stick n move

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

Theyre using the seaport model of modern lab space with ground floor retail, but combining it with the huge park being built in the center of the neighborhood is going to make this a very nice place to work.
 

ivyhedge

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Re: Parcel JK | NorthPoint | Cambridge

Despite recent rains, Lot JK has been moving at pace, with structural members now supporting much of the bathtub as the site is excavated to about 15 feet below grade:



Here is a shot of a greater portion of DivCo's development, from the construction of East First Street to Twenty|20:



There is quite a bit of utility work around the park's perimeter, which makes sense since this phase of construction will see many of the approved roadways constructed.
 

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