COVID-19 in Boston

[Suffolk 83]

^ How much money have I made for my company? ALOT.

You're not better than somebody else because you "created jobs". It wasnt out of the goodness of your heart, you did it to make yourself more money. It sounds like you think you're better than me cuz you "created jobs"

 

[falcon42]

You are just making stuff up. Or to be more charitable, perhaps you are parroting the lies you've read elsewhere. All four states you mention have balanced budget laws. All four also have debt because they issue bonds. You are claiming an untruth and hoping that nobody notices.

Really? https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/496601-california-faces-largest-ever-budget-deficit

A $54B budget deficit? Yea, balances well...

2nd - https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...t-prepared-for-a-deep-recession/#19bbed0c5dff

 

[jklo]

I was hoping that retail would be allowed to reopen to lower the unemployment rate, but alas. Cynically I think the CARES act is playing a part. That and the PPP was not very well thought out.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Data is all over the place. Not sure what to believe- Overall Death rates are actually down in the Red states vs 2019. How is that possible It's all how you want to present the data--

Comparing Year-Over-Year Deaths in Red & Blue States: A Pattern of COVID-19’s Impact Emerges

Comparing Year-Over-Year Deaths in Red & Blue States: A Pattern of COVID-19's Impact Emerges — TopTradeGurus

With some states claiming testing is in short supply, and hospitals attributing COVID-19 deaths through different methodologies, many analysts are looking to th

www.toptradeguru.com

Data basically comes in an unfocussed firehose. To actually synthesize all of it into "The Curve"...or a post-reopen readjustment to The Curve...requires lots and lots of data sources to pound out the chaotic snapshots in the 'droplets' of individually collected data points in that firehose. And also time, because it's not like the virus has gone through a whole incubation cycle for new transmissions post-easing so you could even sniff out what the new risk vectors are for taking corrective action. So despite a lot of much bad predictive trending for GA and FL, we're still not going to see for-real "Curve" published on them for another couple weeks. Because that's a whole compendium of sourcing that needs its due time to fill in the blanks. Sort of like how we didn't know until Italy and a couple contrasting-example countries were through the worst of it with some additional time padding behind the worst of it what a reference backside of the curve looks like and how that may or may not have jibed with initial expectations.

 

[falcon42]

^ How much money have I made for my company? ALOT.

You're not better than somebody else because you "created jobs". It wasnt out of the goodness of your heart, you did it to make yourself more money. It sounds like you think you're better than me cuz you "created jobs"

No not at all and that was not intended. You came out of right field accusing me of taking PPP funds? Like it would be a bad thing IF my company did? Not sure where it came from, so I responded in kind. You should also be careful of throwing false statements out. You have no idea why I started a business, who I help and what I've done with any money I've made.

 

[Arenacale]

I'm curious to see what the long-term data is when things start opening but most people continue taking precautions. Of course there's going to be a rise in cases as things open up more, but I thought the idea of "flattening the curve" was to ensure that healthcare resources weren't overwhelmed, not complete elimination of transmission. So there's gotta be a happy medium, right?

 

[KentXie]

I'm curious to see what the long-term data is when things start opening but most people continue taking precautions. Of course there's going to be a rise in cases as things open up more, but I thought the idea of "flattening the curve" was to ensure that healthcare resources weren't overwhelmed, not complete elimination of transmission. So there's gotta be a happy medium, right?

This website provides some recent trend data on behavior after reopening by state. You can look at Time Outside House as a proxy for how cautious people are after reopening. Cool thing is you can also break it down by a couple of activities. In addition, they have a consumer spending metric which I think you can append it with the Time Outside House index to judge whether people are out shopping or just going to parks.

The Economic Tracker

Explore the Opportunity Insights real-time Economic Tracker

tracktherecovery.org

And yes, the goal is to have enough resource to be able to track and treat the disease without breaking the healthcare system. Unfortunately, we are no where close to handle it at the current transmission rate and at the current number of active case. What we want is to reduce the number of active case (i.e. carriers that can transmit) to a point where we can track them and isolate when needed. We don't have the infrastructure to do it nor the resource yet and so the fear is that, when we reopen early, we end up losing the ability to track every case and at that point, all we can do is mitigate (i.e. go back to lock down).

And unlike the Flu which a lot of people are comparing it to, we don't have a vaccine to artificially induce herd immunity, and that's the problem.

And I know the US tends to look at things in a vacuum but unless the US gets it right, the economy is going to suffer regardless if they reopen because other nations would choose to keep their border close to US Americans for fear of transmitting the disease from overseas. We already see Canada extend their border closure with the US. It won't be surprising for other nations to do so and foreign travelers would hesitate to come to the US if doing so means they would need to quarantine for 14 days when they go back to their home country.

 

[HenryAlan]

Really? https://thehill.com/homenews/state-watch/496601-california-faces-largest-ever-budget-deficit

A $54B budget deficit? Yea, balances well...

2nd - https://www.forbes.com/sites/greats...t-prepared-for-a-deep-recession/#19bbed0c5dff

Did you even read these articles? Or are you just responding to the headlines? The first one specifically says that the budget will be balanced. Every state is going to see a revenue shortfall because the economy has collapsed. That's not unique to California. Florida is also going to collect less revenue next year than this year. This isn't a matter of governing philosophies, it's a matter of economics impacting all 50 states. But unlike you, I look at all the data, rather than targeting my approach to further a specific political point of view.

 

[falcon42]

Henry - have you looked at CA and NY over the last 10 years? You aren't really comparing the economies of these states to FL are you? If so, we have fundamental disagreements.

Did you do any research? Yes every state will have budget issues (MA included)! But CA is FAR worse than other states. If interested, check out the "Nexus" grab states are starting now to grab revenues from other states. Fascinating.

Have you looked at migration trends from CA to NV and ID? This isn't breaking news, it is well known their tax situation is out of control and they continue to impose new taxes and can never catch up to their out of control spending.

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

Did you even read these articles? Or are you just responding to the headlines? The first one specifically says that the budget will be balanced. Every state is going to see a revenue shortfall because the economy has collapsed. That's not unique to California. Florida is also going to collect less revenue next year than this year. This isn't a matter of governing philosophies, it's a matter of economics impacting all 50 states. But unlike you, I look at all the data, rather than targeting my approach to further a specific political point of view.

If California has one of the greatest Economies in the world how is the state so deeply in-debt?

What is everybody thought on future negative Interest rates?

 

[Charlie_mta]

I think the left and the right in the media and the government have politicized and weaponized this pandemic to further their own agendas. I see both sides. People have to get back to work, yet we need to keep proper safeguards in place. I do lean heavily towards opening up the economy and letting the chips fall where they may. Otherwise we may see a wholesale collapse of the economy and society.

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

I’m tired of keeping everything shut down primarily to save the lives of boomers. Either that or we implement a full universal basic income immediately.

 

[Charlie_mta]

I’m tired of keeping everything shut down primarily to save the lives of boomers. Either that or we implement a full universal basic income immediately.

I'm a boomer and I actually agree with the first sentence. As for the universal basic income, I don't think that's sustainable,

 

[KentXie]

Henry - have you looked at CA and NY over the last 10 years? You aren't really comparing the economies of these states to FL are you? If so, we have fundamental disagreements.

Did you do any research? Yes every state will have budget issues (MA included)! But CA is FAR worse than other states. If interested, check out the "Nexus" grab states are starting now to grab revenues from other states. Fascinating.

Have you looked at migration trends from CA to NV and ID? This isn't breaking news, it is well known their tax situation is out of control and they continue to impose new taxes and can never catch up to their out of control spending.

If California has one of the greatest Economies in the world how is the state so deeply in-debt?

What is everybody thought on future negative Interest rates?

These two are the dumbest arguments being used here. California is the 5th largest economy in the world if it was a standalone nation. If you're using debt as a way to trash that, then by your definition, the US has the fucking worst economy in the world since it has the most debt out of any nation. Can it!

 

[Johnnyrocket891]

These two are the dumbest arguments being used here. California is the 5th largest economy in the world if it was a standalone nation. If you're using debt as a way to trash that, then by your definition, the US has the fucking worst economy in the world since it has the most debt out of any nation. Can it!

If you call printing money an economy than the USA is #1 in that.
Universal income will only continue to turn the United States into a socialist country. How is that working out in Europe?
Our leaders allowing the corporations to outsource America's manufacturing to a Communist regime calling this Global Capitalism is actually treasonous. How can you have global capitalism when each country trades in different currency and the Govt have completely different labor laws.

I think American People got hoodwinked into believing the Globalist agenda. Now look at where we are .

THERE IS NO ECONOMY.
Stay at home order by our GOVT's
Main Street (RIP)
Wall Street (prints money)
Corporations (Will own everything in the end from mom & pop)
No Manufacturing
30+ Million unemployed Americans
Negative Interest rates (How does that work)

We are in Financial slavery to the Fed and the corporations your just to stupid to realize it.

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

I'm a boomer and I actually agree with the first sentence. As for the universal basic income, I don't think that's sustainable,

Yeah so reopening immediately is essential. Sorry that I don’t feel the need to lock down everything to futilely prevent the deaths of people at or near the life expectancy. It’s like shutting everything down if there was a surge in cancer deaths one year. Might feel good, but won’t actually save any lives, and might actually cause increased deaths by suicide etc.

 

[falcon42]

These two are the dumbest arguments being used here. California is the 5th largest economy in the world if it was a standalone nation. If you're using debt as a way to trash that, then by your definition, the US has the fucking worst economy in the world since it has the most debt out of any nation. Can it!

The old California is bigger than some countries' economy argument! Seems like another liberal was "triggered" based on your profanity. California has a $1T pension liability. This has nothing to do with the size of their economy, rather chronic mismanagement of the pension fund. Do some independent research and read about the chronic pension mismanagement. Second, California, by far, has the highest Debt to Income ratio in the country and has for quite some time. Doesn't take much thinking to realize why. There are proposals to raise taxes in California in the form of Services taxes, on top of the 14% top income rate rate. Do all engineers, architects on here, California is proposing a surcharge on your income taxes...well, just because!

Do you believe that the "5th largest economy", with a $1T pension liability (For your teachers, police and firefighters) should have all in tax rates close to 20% soon, PLUS property taxes? Did you notice that as they continue to raise taxes on the middle class in CA, their liabilities continue to rise, because they continue to try and be radicals with socialistic gov't programs?

 

[falcon42]

Yeah so reopening immediately is essential. Sorry that I don’t feel the need to lock down everything to futilely prevent the deaths of people at or near the life expectancy. It’s like shutting everything down if there was a surge in cancer deaths one year. Might feel good, but won’t actually save any lives, and might actually cause increased deaths by suicide etc.

Exactly. 151,000 people per month diagnosed with cancer in the US. Oncologists have been warning that screenings have dropped drastically since Covid started. How many diagnoses are being missed because of this? People are afraid to go to hospitals for normal procedures or check ups.

If we continue to lock down, the "cure" will become worse than the problem (it already could be worse).

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Yeah so reopening immediately is essential. Sorry that I don’t feel the need to lock down everything to futilely prevent the deaths of people at or near the life expectancy. It’s like shutting everything down if there was a surge in cancer deaths one year. Might feel good, but won’t actually save any lives, and might actually cause increased deaths by suicide etc.

This is outstanding. Thank you for providing my morning's entertainment.

My sister-in-law lives in Atlanta. An M.D. at a general practice. And 4 months preggers with her first. She can't even get a preggers waiver to get off the standby list for hospital rotations before July because of the second-wave surge her practice's affiliate hospital is expecting because of people like you who don't feel the need to prevent futile deaths. If things go sideways down there as the trending is now starting to predict it will, she's going to be cramming that baby bump awkwardly into PPE and reporting for her 12-hour rotations just like the rest of the hapless front-line soldiers.

So thanks for reminding us who's really being inconvenienced here.

 

[George_Apley]

Go debate “is CA a liberal hellhole or not” somewhere else.

Also, let’s refrain from the blatant “let the people die” angle of debate. The arguments have been addressed and largely ignored. Address the arguments or keep it buttoned up.

If you want to spew nonsense like “only Boomers will die lol”, keep that thought to yourself. First of all, it’s incorrect. Second of all, it’s gonna start cutting it close to trolling if it continues.