Reasonable Transit Pitches

[Stlin]

Uhm... I don't think a combined LRT ped bridge for Silver to the airport makes any sense. Whats your native walkshed? No one walks to that end of the airport property. If you were going to have a bridge, I think paralleling the Blue from Aquarium to Maverick makes the most sense, as it actually serves the resident populations. I believe a 100m total moveable span has precedent, and would probably not be too prohibitive for pedestrians and acceptable for the channel. Frankly, just build it as a pedestrian tunnel, a la the Tyne Cyclist and Pedestrian Tunnel, accessed via elevator.

Also... for an actual reasonable transit pitch... There's already a ferry from Aquarium to the airport. its just annoyingly expensive; as its on the Hull route it costs $9.75, compared to $2.70 to just take the Blue Line to Airport. its right there, after all. The fare from Aquarium to Airport on the Ferry should be equal to that of the subway; if the difference weren't so stark, I could see it being recommended for tourists as a novel way to get to the airport. Its frankly as simple as a Massport subsidy, which could make a water crossing to Logan much more common. If I were to reach a bit, a dedicated boat that makes the Aquarium - Logan - Seaport shuttle would be ideal and well within Massports funding capabilities as a quasi LEX service.

 

[Stlin]

Apologies for the double post, but relevant to the earlier discussion still; apparently The MCCA just very quietly had an open house to explore a East to Seaport Ferry last week, in addition to it's North End run. This is evidently planning to launch a pilot this September.

McDermott and Little said the MCCA is looking at a startup in September with ferry service running between Eastie and Southie [sic: Seaport, Fan Pier] Monday through Friday from 6:30 am to 10 am and then from 3 pm to 7 pm every half hour. The trip takes roughly seven minutes and would cost $5 one way.

eastietimes.com/2021/06/30/east-boston-ferry-holds-open-house/

East Boston

East Boston Ferry Coming soon! In preparation for the launch of the East Boston Pilot Service we will be having an Open House Boat Tour. We will have departures every 15 mins from Fan Pier & Le…

seaportferry.com

An employer/privately funded shuttle isn't necessarily a bad thing, (see the various corporate park alewife shuttles, LMA shuttle etc), but I kinda think this sort of quasi-transit operation within Boston should be a common good, rather than being designed for well compensated employees of big companies in the seaport with public riders being an afterthought. I didn't know the N Station/ Lovejoy route option existed until someone who worked for a company in the seaport told me about it, as it doesn't appear on a single transit map.

The MBTA already has a ferry division; it can and should take over this intra urban, harbour area water transit job. Sure, the demand is new and the MBTA arguably serves it already via the Silver Line, but there's clearly a demand for the waterway approach too. Instead of having the MCCA run the boat, the MCCA should really be an agent to the MBTA, collecting and transferring an operating subsidy in exchange for rider passes for employees of sponsors.

As an addendum to my pitch one post ago, between MCCA and Massport a fairly comphrensive ferry network can be funded. I'd envision it being mostly existing and proposed services, at existing docks at a transit price point (equal to a subway fare, the comprable Charleston ferry is currently 3.70), under one umbrella (the MBTA), with transfers onto onto and from other mbta modes. (If I'm coming in from GLX or the north side CR, instead of transferring to Red and Silver, one to a boat at North Station to get to seaport or logan is pretty appealing.)

A) Aquarium - Logan - Seaport
B) Seaport - East Boston (Lewis Mall) - Aquarium
C) Lovejoy Wharf (N. Station) - Seaport
D) F4 Charlestown - Long Wharf

I think a service like this can actually be served not too expensively. Of these, C and D, and the first halves of A and B already exist or are launching. The demand is demostrated by the existing service, simply augmented by completing a couple of additional links. The Logan one could be a single boat, at a relatively low frequency, just pinging back and forth. B and C would probably require 2-3 boats each for anything approaching reasonable transit headways, given C currently does 20 minute headways with 2 boats.

The 1 mile long inner harbor Charleston route contract cost the MBTA 9.3 million over 4 years, 7 months in 2019. Call that 2 million a year, including the cost of 3 BHC provided boats, one being a backup. The MBTAs newest boats cost 5.7 million each in 2018. Assume you need 8 new boats including a spare at 6 million each, and they'll each cost 1 million a year to operate. Maybe 10 million or so for dock improvements? Total capital cost? 58 Million, and 8 million a year burden on the operating budget. That's... Not a lot in the context of the multibillion dollar MBTA budget, even without considering the ferry having the highest farebox recovery ratio (36%) or MCCA / Massport Operating Support.

 

[jklo]

I love the idea of Ferries here but you need to fix the boarding time issue first.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I love the idea of Ferries here but you need to fix the boarding time issue first.

The ferry boarding problem is basically the same as BRT or trollies. It is easily fixed with infrastructure and money.

Prepaid boarding area, ferry selection with multiple gangways, land side designed for separated flow off and onto the ferry, etc. You just have to want to solve the problem.

 

[ceo]

What's really irksome about Sullivan is that it was built that way in the first place. Clearly the brief was "this station is for cars and buses only, and fuck the dense urban residential neighborhood that it's right next to".

 

[737900er]

Feel like this belongs more in Crazy Transit Pitches, but am definitely intrigued by the idea of a footbridge. How high would the bridge need to be for clearance?

I think it says something about our regional transit priorities that people who live in East Boston get a massive discount on driving through the tunnels but don't get any Blue Line discount.

 

[JumboBuc]

I think it says something about our regional transit priorities that people who live in East Boston get a massive discount on driving through the tunnels but don't get any Blue Line discount.

I hear ya, but the Blue Line is no more expensive to use than any other public transit route in Greater Boston. You could even make the argument that the total generalised cost of taking the Blue Line -- including monetary as well as non-monetary costs, such as time and reliability and convenience -- may be lower than that of any other line on the T map.

The car tunnels to Eastie, meanwhile, are more expensive than the bridges, tunnels, and highways generally that connect to other neighborhoods. Discounting tunnel fares for Eastie residents is a valid equity issue. They shouldn't have to pay "airport tolls" to get in and out of their own neighborhood.

 

[themissinglink]

Has there ever been an official proposal for a Red Line infill station at Neponset/Port Norfolk? It seems like such an obvious spot for an infill station especially considering how many people live in the area. Plus, the atypical stop spacing between North Quincy and JFK/UMass is quite noticeable when taking the Red Line.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Has there ever been an official proposal for a Red Line infill station at Neponset/Port Norfolk? It seems like such an obvious spot for an infill station especially considering how many people live in the area. Plus, the atypical stop spacing between North Quincy and JFK/UMass is quite noticeable when taking the Red Line.

Yes...proposed many times. Pretty sure the Boston 2030 study holds the latest active/ongoing proposal for it. City just has to make up its mind on goin' for it. And preferably start acting like they mean it at dragging the Morrissey strip into some less painfully auto-centric TOD to help kickstart the process.

 

[themissinglink]

Yes...proposed many times. Pretty sure the Boston 2030 study holds the latest active/ongoing proposal for it. City just has to make up its mind on goin' for it. And preferably start acting like they mean it at dragging the Morrissey strip into some less painfully auto-centric TOD to help kickstart the process.

Thanks for the clarification. I know its been discussed countless times before here on aB, but I was unsure about whether it was a legitimate proposal or not. I'm glad to hear that it was included in the Boston 2030 study.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Thanks for the clarification. I know its been discussed countless times before here on aB, but I was unsure about whether it was a legitimate proposal or not. I'm glad to hear that it was included in the Boston 2030 study.

FWIW...the reason why it was not proposed all along is that the Braintree Branch was originally planned as an outright replacement for Commuter Rail. It was assumed in the 60's that the Old Colony ROW was eventually going to be abandoned in-full given the unsupportability of private RR's. Therefore, Red in that era was being provisioned for direct extension to either Weymouth or Brockton, where extremely long stop spacing would've been a feature rather than a bug. That's obviously no longer the case, as the worst-case prognosis for the RR's 50 years ago did not end up coming true. The Morrissey rotary you linked to was Popes Hill Station, and Neponset/Port Norfolk was at Walnut St. right before the old drawbridge at the ex-junction with the Mattapan Branch...both until end of NYNH&H service in 1958. The latter site is probably not a viable station site today because of the steep incline onto the new Neponset bridges constraining the station space that used to be there and the generally challenging street grid for trying to rope buses in/out a busway cleanly. The rotary (Popes Hill) you can clearly see still has cutout remnants of its old pre-1958 platforms on each side of the ROW.

Advocacy for an infill has run semi-hot for a good 25 years now. Menino couldn't be arsed with it any, so it was summarily buried throughout his long Admin. The T was also cool on it, bellyaching about it messing up branch timing. Walsh, to his credit, did cherry-pick that one for inclusion in B30 so it's arguably got more momentum than it's ever had. And with Red Line Transformation resignaling and the new cars capable of running the default schedules a little faster any concerns (which were marginal to begin with) about branch scheduling conflicts has more or less evaporated. The key is going to be getting enough of a good TOD/Morrissey-terraforming deal wadded together to push it through with enough gusto. That's entirely up to City Hall, the BDPA, and their partners to try and mount. As we saw with Assembly, a tight coalition can definitely push an infill through in reasonable time. The question that has to be answered is whether the coalition in Dorchester can make itself tight enough soon enough to push this one through.

 

[The EGE]

FWIW, none of the Boston intermediate stations lasted until the June 30, 1959 closure of the Old Colony Division. South Boston was dropped around 1917 when Broadway station opened, and Crescent Avenue and Savin Hill were dropped in 1927 during extension to Ashmont. Harrison Square, Pope's Hill, and Neponset were all closed in the 1930s - they're gone by my 1937 timetable.

 

[Texasian]

That's an interesting idea I hadn't considered before. I feel like the bus platforms are too far away from the subway platforms for this to be useful

With the bus terminal expansion that’s currently under construction, the diff between Bus Terminal - RL and CR/Amtrak-RL transfers would be an additional escalator.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Transit Twitter has been lighting up about trackless trollies lately (since the Biden admin wants to promote battery powered buses). Are there any reasonable pitches to convert some bus lines to TT? Personally I don't see it happening, but I'm curious if there is a hint of possibility.

 

[Tallguy]

Transit Twitter has been lighting up about trackless trollies lately (since the Biden admin wants to promote battery powered buses). Are there any reasonable pitches to convert some bus lines to TT? Personally I don't see it happening, but I'm curious if there is a hint of possibility.

Transitmatters and Sierra Club will be issuing a white paper on the subject very soon

 

[Charlie_mta]

Transit Twitter has been lighting up about trackless trollies lately (since the Biden admin wants to promote battery powered buses). Are there any reasonable pitches to convert some bus lines to TT? Personally I don't see it happening, but I'm curious if there is a hint of possibility.

Communities seem to not like the overhead wires. As I recall, the MBTA floated the idea of the bus line to Arlington Heights to become TT when the line to North Cambridge was converted to TT, but Arlington said no. But personally I'd like to see the TT network expanded. They are quiet and don't pollute the air. I love 'em.

 

[Brattle Loop]

Transit Twitter has been lighting up about trackless trollies lately (since the Biden admin wants to promote battery powered buses). Are there any reasonable pitches to convert some bus lines to TT? Personally I don't see it happening, but I'm curious if there is a hint of possibility.

Here in MBTA-ville the plan is apparently to get rid of the TTs in favor of battery buses because...reasons? The T hasn't exactly been clear on why. One imagines that they don't much like the little subfleet or having to maintain the wires, but that's not really a good excuse for making the system worse, especially because they could presumably use the existing wires for in-motion charging and actually get even more of the benefits of electric buses without having to hang more wires, but that makes too much sense I suppose.

 

[Equilibria]

Here in MBTA-ville the plan is apparently to get rid of the TTs in favor of battery buses because...reasons? The T hasn't exactly been clear on why. One imagines that they don't much like the little subfleet or having to maintain the wires, but that's not really a good excuse for making the system worse, especially because they could presumably use the existing wires for in-motion charging and actually get even more of the benefits of electric buses without having to hang more wires, but that makes too much sense I suppose.

Once the fleet is headed to BEB generally, how does it make the system worse to take down the wires? Why does the capability to charge in-motion matter if you have enough battery life for the bus to get back to base?

My understanding was that North Cambridge is converting to BEB first because it's a small enough garage and fleet to be a good pilot while manufacturing capacity for BEBs is still pretty low.

 

[JeffDowntown]

Once the fleet is headed to BEB generally, how does it make the system worse to take down the wires? Why does the capability to charge in-motion matter if you have enough battery life for the bus to get back to base?

My understanding was that North Cambridge is converting to BEB first because it's a small enough garage and fleet to be a good pilot while manufacturing capacity for BEBs is still pretty low.

Also a huge cost driver at the MBTA is rolling stock inconsistency. The enormous lack of commonality among vehicles drives costly parallel repair and maintenance capabilities, a general need for excess redundant vehicles, and seriously restricts the ability to redeploy rolling stock in emergencies. Any steps to bring more commonality among the rolling stock at the T should be applauded.

 

[bigeman312]

Pilot Forest Hills as an outbound stop on local, off-peak, Stoughton-bound Commuter Rail trips that already stop at Hyde Park.

There are seven such trips per weekday. Is this operationally feasible at no-build? I assume, yes.

I find myself frequently "going in to go out" from Ruggles for Franklin/Providence/Stoughton trains. Expanding Ruggles to a full-service Commuter Rail stop has been a great step in the right direction, in my opinion. To continue this momentum of improving connectivity to this end of the city to/from the Commuter Rail, the terminus of the Orange Line should have better connectivity. The solution ranges from reasonable to crazy:

• Reasonable: Pilot Forest Hills as an off-peak local stop on Stoughton Line. No build. Study ridership.
  • Crazy: If the demand is there, expand Forest Hills Commuter Rail service. Build a Ruggles-style side platform at Forest Hills. Expand service such that Forest Hills is served by all Stoughton and off-peak Providence and Franklin trains.