Reasonable Transit Pitches

[bigeman312]

Now that Pawtucket/Central Falls has been open for (almost) 2 years, where should the next RI infill station be?

A station in Cranston should be the next priority for Rhode Island IMO, but I know they've also considered stations in Olneyville, East Greenwich, and West Davisville.

I’m in the “yes and” boat on this one.

Cranston AND increased frequency.

I’m sure some infrastructure is needed, like a pocket track or something, but a dedicated Wickford Junction <—> Attleboro service, with the existing stops plus Cranston, on an hourly basis, would be a great start for a Providence-centric service.

 

[Stlin]

I haven't exactly been paying super close attention, but isn't TF Green's 2nd platform an active project for extensions both of more Providence Line trains (including weekends) and as an infill for Amtrak NE Regionals?

Despite the passenger numbers and trends for TF Green being not-great recently, (it seems to be recovering largely thanks to Breeze - I'm waiting for full year 2024 numbers) it's still an endpoint worth at least ~4 million annual trips including employees - not that many places in the state stand to be better ridership generators since the transit connection is actually more usable in some ways than Logan's.

As far as all-new infills go, I think I would site one at Reservoir/Elmwood. It's not the best site to serve Cranston by itself, but it would be with a healthy dose of multimodal goodness - it's where the NEC crosses the proposed routing for RIPTA's MetroConnector, which will provide that high frequency last mile connectivity into Cranston proper and the Elmwood corridor into Providence.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

I haven't exactly been paying super close attention, but isn't TF Green's 2nd platform an active project for extensions both of more Providence Line trains (including weekends) and as an infill for Amtrak NE Regionals?

Nothing ongoing. It was supposed to be a long-term item for RIDOT boosted by the Amtrak service what-if's, but the Raimondo and McKee administrations have backpedaled away from literally any service increases south of Providence and buildout of anything Commuter Rail other than the Pawtucket infill so it's firmly on the backburner. Right now the NEC doesn't even have enough crossovers in the vicinity to attempt to pack bi-directional service denser on the current platform track, so they are stuck at not much greater than current service levels. And there's no plans to do the new northbound platform turnout required for fuller service to Wickford. Electrification of service there also requires additional capital spending, as the station overhang doesn't allow enough vertical clearance for P&W autoracks to travel on the wired tracks; P&W is forced to crawl at sub-10 MPH (so the cars don't smack the full-high) on the un-wired station track to get by. Electrification of the platform track requires installing a wide-swingout gauntlet track so the autoracks slot 'between' sets of wires and can travel at less-punitive speed restriction.

 

[AndrewOnTheMBTA]

I was doing some errands/exploring in Allston today, and checked out the Boston Landing/Allston Yards area, and being from Eastie, and not so connected with the area, i was genuinely surprised how densely this area's being built. And there's even some 8-15 story buildings going up. That said, this area stands as such a transit desert in my opinion, in comparison to other areas in Boston. In a reasonable world, I would say this area has an increasing demand for reliable transit. Are there any proposals or pitches on this?

 

[riptide]

Nothing ongoing. It was supposed to be a long-term item for RIDOT boosted by the Amtrak service what-if's, but the Raimondo and McKee administrations have backpedaled away from literally any service increases south of Providence and buildout of anything Commuter Rail other than the Pawtucket infill so it's firmly on the backburner. Right now the NEC doesn't even have enough crossovers in the vicinity to attempt to pack bi-directional service denser on the current platform track, so they are stuck at not much greater than current service levels. And there's no plans to do the new northbound platform turnout required for fuller service to Wickford. Electrification of service there also requires additional capital spending, as the station overhang doesn't allow enough vertical clearance for P&W autoracks to travel on the wired tracks; P&W is forced to crawl at sub-10 MPH (so the cars don't smack the full-high) on the un-wired station track to get by. Electrification of the platform track requires installing a wide-swingout gauntlet track so the autoracks slot 'between' sets of wires and can travel at less-punitive speed restriction.

The project has been creeping its way through 30% design for a couple years. Per this year's update of the NEC Commission's Capital Investment Plan (p.20), the estimated project cost has now risen to a mind-boggling $360 million. Back in 2017, when RIDOT and Amtrak released a study on adding TF Green as a Northeast Regional stop, the capital costs were estimated at $90 million. So the cost quadrupled in 7 years' time.

That 2017 study included ridership projections for five different intercity rail service scenarios. (Tables on p.40 here.) The scenario with the highest net annual impact on Regional ridership would generate 700 additional riders...per year. That scenario entailed stopping only two Regionals per day at the station. Another scenario would only add 500 riders; the remaining three would lead to outright losses in net ridership. A large portion of TF Green's riders would be existing passengers shifted away from their current local stations, like PVD or KIN. And Amtrak wants a $3 million operating subsidy if they have to stop all trains at TF Green as compensation for the net loss in ticket revenue.

I know in concept, TF Green offers an easy rail-to-air connection, it's a less crowded airport to navigate than Logan, it's a job center in its own right, etc...but I'm not seeing the value proposition of making it a Northeast Regional stop.

But even so, backing away from the Amtrak service idea doesn't really help the capital cost problem. All the same components they'd need for intercity rail (the northbound platform and track, overhead wires, and a gauntlet track for freight) are also needed for higher-frequency commuter and/or intrastate rail. If they can't find some major VE opportunities, I don't know how likely it is that this project goes forward. And if this project doesn't go forward, then the broader idea of expanding commuter rail service south of Providence probably gets held up too.

 

[themissinglink]

I really hope the Franklin Line gets extended to Milford in the 2030s. A new layover yard in Bellingham, a park-and-ride station in Bellingham, and a walkable terminus in downtown Milford would be great additions to the Franklin Line.

 

[Riverside]

I really hope the Franklin Line gets extended to Milford in the 2030s. A new layover yard in Bellingham, a park-and-ride station in Bellingham, and a walkable terminus in downtown Milford would be great additions to the Franklin Line.

When was the last time an extension was studied?

It’s always looked tempting to me, but it turns into a pretty lengthy and roundabout journey to Boston. In theory, Milford ought to be the terminus of a commuter rail line that radiates out through Dover and Millis. In practice, those and the surrounding communities form a density gap that basically runs from Milford to Needham.

That being said, if someone can make a Milford extension fly, I’m all for it.

EDIT: it looks like the ROW from Milford to Framingham via Holliston is actually mostly extant due to the rail trail. Based on some quick measurements, it looks like the distance via Framingham is about the same as via Franklin — maybe a little shorter. I wonder if Framingham itself would be able to attract any commuters from Milford that might tip the scales toward viability. (Of course, the Worcester Line probably faces more capacity concerns than Franklin.)

 

[themissinglink]

When was the last time an extension was studied?

In 2011, but the study was never released.

This is what I could find about the 2011 MPO study:

In 2011, the report found an extension including stations in Bellingham and Milford would only be moderately successful in attracting ridership, citing a lack of a high-density development in Milford. (source)

There’s been a good amount of new residential development in Milford since 2011 (including high-density development), and there’s been some growth in Bellingham since then. There might not be enough ridership from Milford and especially Bellingham yet, but I’d think by 2035 and definitely by the 2040s there should be enough ridership to justify an extension to Milford. It’s also worth noting that Milford is very bikeable in addition to being walkable, with 2 branches of the Upper Charles trail converging downtown right near the tracks.

I’d love it if the MBTA or the Boston MPO did another study for a Milford extension. I contacted the MPO around a year ago suggesting that they do another study, hopefully it actually happens sometime soon.

 

[themissinglink]

It’s always looked tempting to me, but it turns into a pretty lengthy and roundabout journey to Boston.

Trains to/from Milford could run semi-express, skipping Windsor Gardens, Norwood Depot, Islington, and Endicott to save a bit of time on the way into Boston. The 1997 Milford Commuter Rail Extension feasibility study (pgs. 11-14) looked into expressing between Walpole and Ruggles for Milford trains, but I don’t think it’s necessary or desirable for Milford trains to skip Norwood Central, Dedham Corporate Center, and Readville.

Trains to/from Foxboro could backfill the stations being skipped by Milford trains, and I suppose some off-peak Milford trains could run as locals since longer travel times might not matter as much during the off-peak.

From the 1997 study:

For an extension from Forge Park, ridership was estimated both for service with all trains making local stops on the present Franklin Line, and for service with peak-period Milford trains running non-stop between Walpole Station and Boston supplemented by local trains starting at Walpole. Ridership was also estimated for service with peak period Forge Park trains running non-stop between Walpole Station and Boston supplemented by local trains starting at Walpole, but with no Milford extension.

On weekdays at present travel levels inbound boardings at stations on a Milford extension from Forge Park would range from 725 with local service only to 885 with peak-period express service. Only about 155 inbound riders under the local-service option would be new transit users. The express option would attract about 315 new
inbound riders at extension stations and about 120 others at Forge Park, Franklin, Norfolk, or Walpole. [...] Without a Milford extension, operation of peak-period express trains from Forge Park with local trains from Walpole would attract about 170 new inbound transit riders per day.

EDIT: it looks like the ROW from Milford to Framingham via Holliston is actually mostly extant due to the rail trail. Based on some quick measurements, it looks like the distance via Framingham is about the same as via Franklin — maybe a little shorter. I wonder if Framingham itself would be able to attract any commuters from Milford that might tip the scales toward viability. (Of course, the Worcester Line probably faces more capacity concerns than Franklin.)

It would have to be rail-with-trail, as I doubt people in Milford, Holliston or Sherborn would be okay with losing the Upper Charles Trail to bring the train back. There might not be enough room in certain spots (specifically in Holliston) for both tracks and the trail.

It would also be way more expensive to reactivate those tracks instead of just improving the existing tracks between Forge Park and Milford. There's also a good chance that there would be NIMBY opposition in Holliston (likely) and Sherborn (maybe). That could be a big obstacle, especially compared to Milford and Bellingham, both of which are supportive of a Franklin Line extension.

 

[Stlin]

Looking back, the 2011 study was only funded for $50k by way of legislative earmark - as far as transportation studies go, that's a token amount that I'm not confident would have actually reached the reporting stage with any meaningful ridership or service conclusions. That said, I also agree that a Forge Park extension is most likely regardless of any Framingham ridership benefits - the cost/benefit of existing rail will almost certainly tip the balance, especially since the MBTA bought it in 2022 from CSX. Given that, it's almost certainly worth updated paper especially since the Franklin line will need a new layover sometime soon given how undersized it is.

 

[themissinglink]

Looking back, the 2011 study was only funded for $50k by way of legislative earmark - as far as transportation studies go, that's a token amount that I'm not confident would have actually reached the reporting stage with any meaningful ridership or service conclusions. That said, I also agree that a Forge Park extension is most likely regardless of any Framingham ridership benefits - the cost/benefit of existing rail will almost certainly tip the balance, especially since the MBTA bought it in 2022 from CSX. Given that, it's almost certainly worth updated paper especially since the Franklin line will need a new layover sometime soon given how undersized it is.

An extension to Milford has been examined several times. There was the aforementioned MPO study in 1997, a brief examination in a 2003 Milford municipal planning report (which identified the preferred station site in Milford), the 2003 Program for Mass Transportation, supportive mentions in the 2010 and 2020 Bellingham master plan(s), and the 2011 MPO study (unreleased). 2011 was 13 (almost 14) years ago. It's definitely time for a new feasibility study.

Now that the G&U has freight trackage rights on the Milford branch, I wouldn't be surprised if some of the grade crossings between Forge Park and Milford get flashing lights, bells, and gates soon, just like some of the crossings in Grafton, Upton, Hopedale, and Milford have gotten. That would make the extension a little bit less expensive, although it will probably be the state paying for the crossing upgrades anyway, just under the guise of freight improvements instead of T expansion.

 

[Tallguy]

I fully agree if you're talking about building infill stations for a RI intrastate rail service - increasing frequencies to pass the minimum "usefulness" threshold is where that conversation starts. But if you're building stations for MBTA service, I think Olneyville and Cranston could be justifiable. Pawtucket-Central Falls and Olneyville have very similar fundamentals within a mile radius of their (existing/proposed) stations...at least per the charts on p.7-8 here, combined population and jobs within a mile radius of existing/proposed station locations is a little over 50,000 in both cases. (Olneyville skews more heavily toward population than PCF does.)

It's true that demand for Boston-oriented MBTA service drops off south of Providence, but where that cutoff point lies is hard to tell from south-of-PVD ridership numbers because those stations only receive limited service. I remember reading in a RIDOT study (which I can't seem to find online now) that curtailing MBTA service at Providence actually doesn't gain as much capacity as terminating at TF Green. The recommendation was to make TF Green the Providence Line's southern terminus once intrastate rail was able to take over Wickford Junction. In a world where TF Green and any stations north enjoy full service, Olneyville would probably post similar MBTA ridership numbers as PCF; Cranston wouldn't be quite as strong (only about 40% as many people/jobs within a mile radius) but I suspect it would still be respectable; and TF Green probably wouldn't be further behind since it's fundamentals aren't too far behind Cranston's.

Also, EMU service with full highs could reduce travel time to induce more commuters to move southward

 

[Tallguy]

I was doing some errands/exploring in Allston today, and checked out the Boston Landing/Allston Yards area, and being from Eastie, and not so connected with the area, i was genuinely surprised how densely this area's being built. And there's even some 8-15 story buildings going up. That said, this area stands as such a transit desert in my opinion, in comparison to other areas in Boston. In a reasonable world, I would say this area has an increasing demand for reliable transit. Are there any proposals or pitches on this?

Regional Rail