Nubian Sq. Parcel P-3 (nee Tremont Crossing) | Roxbury

I would love to know how it happened and what the exact plan is. Unfortunately, I will have to wait for other reporting on the subject because I am not going to pay and still not know. What I suspect is that building it here will allow them to build completely from scratch which I imagine is cheaper and easier. However, the building on Malcolm X then has to be be ripped down but it is on a large parcel that could be developed
 
What I suspect is that building it here will allow them to build completely from scratch which I imagine is cheaper and easier.
Yeah they mention that in the article that it (should) help to control costs. It will also be better for the students/staff during the transition as they won't have to set up a pop-up school on the athletic fields while construction happens, which would have been the case if they remained at the Malcom X site.
 
Yeah they mention that in the article that it (should) help to control costs. It will also be better for the students/staff during the transition as they won't have to set up a pop-up school on the athletic fields while construction happens, which would have been the case if they remained at the Malcom X site.
I also imagine that it makes it easier when applying for the grant from the state to not have to deal with the uncertainty of all of that
 
Well folks you can have a $700,000,000 investment from the state/city or you can have a private life science investment of $0. Figure it out.
 

The real estate developers behind a planned lab and affordable housing campus on 8 acres in Roxbury are asking the city to reconsider its plan to scrap their project and explore the site as a home for a future Madison Park Vocational Technical High School.

[...]

the developers said they have spent three years working with the Roxbury community to further the project, and have invested upward of $1 million, and would like the chance to continue.

[...]

The developers are hosting a community listening session on Feb. 2 at Twelfth Baptist Church in Roxbury to discuss the decision — and they invited Wu and her staff to attend.

[...]

Wu defended the decision on GBH radio on Tuesday, where she said the potential for state funding to rebuild Madison Park was “what everyone said would never happen” and made more sense than “prolonging a pipe dream” of a lab and affordable housing campus at P3. The economics of such a campus simply don’t work right now, she said, given that the region is grappling with a glut of lab space and little demand to fill it.

[...]

Wu on GBH said HYM and My City at Peace’s pledge to build a lab campus subsidizing deeply affordable housing “hasn’t been true for some time.”

“It’s time to come to terms that those promises are not able to be delivered on by that developer,” she said. “Now we are finding a way to make something actually work.”

[...]

“We disagree with the Mayor’s representation of our project’s viability,” Brown and O’Brien wrote. “Our vision has always been clear: to invest in the Roxbury community by creating deeply affordable homeownership and rental opportunities; good-paying jobs with viable, long-term career tracks; and meaningful equity participation in the development process by people of color and women.”

It’s unclear if Wu plans to attend the Feb. 2 meeting.
 
Do they print anything but borderline click bait articles anymore? The Globe knows quite well that the development team failed to start construction during the lab boom so giving them more time will do nothing.

There are many interesting stories here but this isn't it. You shouldn't just pretend that the developer can do what it clearly can't do, just to sell papers

Up until 1998 the only thing left on P3 was a small jazz club with a significant history. This article is worth reading because it tells that story and also has images of what Tremont St. once looked like before it was all ripped down for nothing
 
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Thanks Scott. Here’s the pics from the link you shared.

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Assuming the city were to sell it off, I don't think a developer could buy this and expect to see demand for units in the price range necessary to make it worthwhile; the high end has flattened out.
 
Scott's link inspired me to do a bit of history here...

(P-3 marked by red dot)


18th to Mid-19th Centuries

For the first two centuries following the founding of Roxbury in 1630, the P3 site lay in an uninhabited area of meadows and marshes to the northwest of the town's main settlement. The only nearby population cluster was Pierpont's Village, a community surrounding a mill that had been built along Stony Brook in 1633 near what is now Roxbury Crossing. Stony Brook, meandering through the area, was primarily known as a prime spot for fishermen.

Roxbury was a quiet town in these days, with a population of less than 1,500 in 1765. This quaint rural village would not last forever, however. Given its proximity to Boston as well as its access to water resources, the town soon became home to many industries. Early industrial growth was in the area of the Roxbury Canal, which was incorporated in 1795 and led from South Bay to what is now the southwest corner of Massachusetts and Harrison Aves. Ship access caused the growth of packing and distilleries, and Roxbury became especially notable for its tanneries.

At the same time, connectivity to Boston was improved. The road across the Boston Neck (now Washington St.) was fortified against flooding in 1786. In 1826, hourly coach service was initiated between the Roxbury town house and Old South Church. Tremont St. was extended in 1832, joining Washington St. as the second major artery between central Roxbury and Boston. They were soon joined by Suffolk St. (now Shawmut Ave.) and Front St. (now Harrison Ave.). Another major development was the Boston & Providence Railroad, which opened in 1834 and had a stop at Roxbury Crossing.

All of these developments spurred rapid growth in Roxbury. During the 1820s and 1830s, many old estates near downtown were bought up by speculators and subdivided. As streets were laid out and graded, buildings were soon constructed. The business center expanded and the population rapidly increased, from 4,135 in 1820 to 18,364 in 1850. The newly-laid out Tremont St. was included in this growth; from an uninhabited road in the 1830s, it became densely populated by the 1840s.


Lower Roxbury, 1777 (north is top right). Also showing Pierpoint's Mill and Village (blue), central Roxbury (green), and the Boston Neck (yellow).

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Lower Roxbury, 1832 (north is top right). Tremont St. (pink) is present but is almost entirely devoid of buildings. The P3 site is hemmed in by Tremont St. and Stony Brook. Pierpoint's old mill (blue) still appears as well. The Roxbury Canal (orange) has a variety of manufacturing uses nearby. Central Roxbury (green) and Washington St. (yellow) for reference.

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Lower Roxbury, 1843. Similar to the 1832 map, but note the proliferation of buildings and side-streets along Tremont St. (pink) in the interlude. Also now present on the P3 site are Orange (later Hampshire) & Simmons Sts.

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Mid/Late-19th Century

Further development of the P3 area was still partially stymied by the presence of Stony Brook. The flat topography meant that nearby properties were prone to flooding, and in 1851 the brook was covered in east of Tremont St. and Culvert (now Whittier) St. was laid out atop. In 1865 the channel was diverted below Tremont St. and covered in along a channel running through Rogers Ave. (later Bryant St., partially surviving today as Forsyth St.) to the Full Basin of Back Bay. In 1866 and 1867, this work was continued by walling and covering in the brook from Factory St. (later Vernon St., parallel to Culvert St.) to the car stables at the intersection of Pynchon (now Columbus Ave.) and Tremont Sts.

By the mid-19th century, the P3 area was home to both residences and factories. This dual character reflected the milieu of the surrounding neighborhood, which was a manufacturing hub paired with housing for the workers in the plants. Many of the new inhabitants were Irish immigrants drawn by the availability of cheap land and proximity to nearby employment opportunities. By 1870, the inner section of Lower Roxbury had principally become a working class slum area. Residences, consisting of wood-frame houses or mill town-style boardinghouses, were cheaply built, and rental units were small in size.

After many thriving years, Roxbury's manufacturing sector began to decline toward the end of the century. Consolidation and increasing scales of operation meant that larger and more modern facilities than were available in Roxbury were now required; as a result, the area was left with many buildings no longer suitable for use. Factories that required more space were forced to decamp to the suburbs or to shutter entirely. In their place came service and distribution companies, attracted by the cheap unskilled labor and proximity to downtown.

Toward the end of the 1800s, the Irish began to be joined by other immigrants, including Canadians and Jews. Boston's black population also began its migration from the north side of Beacon Hill to the South End and Lower Roxbury around this time. Soon they made up 22.5% of Ward 18 (Lower Roxbury, including the P3 area), mainly concentrated in the area between Camden and Hammond Sts.


The South End and Lower Roxbury, 1852. The P3 area and the rest of Roxbury section of Tremont St. (pink) are already built up, whereas the South End segment of Tremont is still largely vacant. Stony Brook still (anachronistically) freely flows through the P3 site.

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The local neighborhood, 1873 (north is top right). The P3 site is on the northwest side of Culvert St. (later Whittier St., lower right), and includes the majority of Hampshire (originally Orange), Simmons, and Vernon (originally Factory) Sts. The course of Stony Brook, now partially covered, is also shown (light blue). Roxbury (Crossing) Station (blue) is at the top left.

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1886 Stony Brook Flood

In February 1886, heavy rain and melting snow overwhelmed the capacity of the Stony Brook culvert north of Roxbury Crossing, causing 63 acres and 1,437 buildings to be flooded.


Culvert (now Whittier) St., looking SE toward Cabot St. Buildings on P3 site on right.

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Early/Mid-20th Century

Heading into the 1900s, manufacturing was still a large sector for employment even as it continued to decline. The area remained occupied by first- and second-generation immigrant families, many of whom had relocated from their original settlements in the inner city.

In the second quarter of the century, Roxbury was transformed into a predominantly black neighborhood. Spurred on from immigration from the South, the population of Roxbury swung from 80% white in 1940 to 80% non-white in 1950, permanently changing its racial makeup.

In 1932-1933, the George R. White Fund donated funds for a city health care center on the P3 site at 20 Whittier St. In 1953, the adjacent Whittier St. housing project was built.


Tremont St. looking southwest, 1934; Whittier St. just out of frame on left. Most of the buildings on the left side belong to P3.

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Fire at the National Chair factory at 80 Hampshire St., 1944. Most of this property stood within P3.

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Tremont St. at Roxbury Crossing, looking inbound, 1948. Columbus Ave. on left; P3 site in far distance on right.

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Tremont St., looking outbound, 1950. Whitter St. & P3 site on left.

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Aerial, 1952. Whittier St. Housing Project (purple), George R. White Health Unit (light blue), and Madison Park (lime) also shown.

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Mid/Late-20th Century

Roxbury struggled mightily in the middle of the 20th century, with its population declining by 43% between 1950 and 1980. During that same period, its housing stock decreased from 22,000 to 14,000 units, as disinvestment (by both private owners and the government), demolition (including for urban renewal projects as well as the canceled Inner Beltway and Southwest Expressway), and arson took their toll. Manufacturing jobs, which still made up a disproportionate share of local employment, declined from more than 20,000 in 1947 to 4,000 in 1981.

In the 1960s, the Boston Redevelopment Authority began a plan to build out a central campus-style high school capable of holding 5,000 students, and in 1966 it selected a massive site in Lower Roxbury (inclusive of the P3 site) for the school. Community demands that the city provide replacement housing for the units slated to be demolished, as well as the effective end of federal support for urban renewal under the Nixon administration, changed the size and nature of the project, but it moved forward and demolition of almost all buildings in the P3 area was completed. After significant delays, Madison High opened in 1977.


Aerial, 1969. Several properties within the P3 area along Tremont St. have been demolished since 1952.

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Campus High Urban Renewal Area plan, 1971. It called for a campus of numerous buildings, which was not realized. Also shown are the canceled Southeast Expressway and Inner Beltway.

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Aerial, 1977. Madison High in progress. Almost all buildings in the P3 area have been demolished.

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incredible write up there ⬆ (I tried to quote it but can’t due to length).

Re: the Wu decision, one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is what the implications would be for the current high school land—Malcolm X is pretty hostilely designed as is, but its proximity to Nubian means it has more potential for smart redevelopment, as opposed to Columbus which is never going to be knitted back together (the police station mega block and other large buildings here aren’t going anywhere). So, build the school here and then free up development on Malcolm X might be an overall better fit. Plus, the high school would be right across from Ruggles now. Seems overall like a good call to me.
 
Are there any pictures from ground level of the boston and providence railroad when it was elevated along the route of the southwest corridor? Its pretty crazy to see how what is now a trench was once an elevated rail line in the same spot.
 
Are there any pictures from ground level of the boston and providence railroad when it was elevated along the route of the southwest corridor? Its pretty crazy to see how what is now a trench was once an elevated rail line in the same spot.
It was never "elevated" like the old Orange Line. It was an embankment. It was a solid wall separating the Fenway and Northeastern from Roxbury.
 
It was never "elevated center" like the old Orange Line. It was an embankment. It was a solid wall separating the Fenway and Northeastern from Roxbury.
Yea I wasnt saying it was on a viaduct like the old orange line just that it was elevated above ground level. I have never been able to find pics of the line or any of the old stations, its super weird. It seems like all other rail lines are very well documented with pictures except this one pre-trench.

incredible write up there ⬆ (I tried to quote it but can’t due to length).

Re: the Wu decision, one thing I haven’t seen mentioned is what the implications would be for the current high school land—Malcolm X is pretty hostilely designed as is, but its proximity to Nubian means it has more potential for smart redevelopment, as opposed to Columbus which is never going to be knitted back together (the police station mega block and other large buildings here aren’t going anywhere). So, build the school here and then free up development on Malcolm X might be an overall better fit. Plus, the high school would be right across from Ruggles now. Seems overall like a good call to me.
Just like with so many other massive redevelopments theyve tried to do that havent worked out I think their problem was not breaking the site up into multiple blocks. Its so much harder to find a developer who can commit the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars it takes to build an entire district from start to finish, compared to if they had broken it up and sold off each lot individually each developer would have only had to build 1 building a piece. They could have done this 10+ years ago and by now a couple of the lots would have been built and thered be proposals in the pipeline for a couple more.

From the hym proposal thats 5 different lots they could have broken this up into. One developer trying to build all of this is going to be very hard to make work.

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Yea I wasnt saying it was on a viaduct like the old orange line just that it was elevated above ground level. I have never been able to find pics of the line or any of the old stations, its super weird. It seems like all other rail lines are very well documented with pictures except this one pre-trench.


Just like with so many other massive redevelopments theyve tried to do that havent worked out I think their problem was not breaking the site up into multiple blocks. Its so much harder to find a developer who can commit the hundreds of millions or even billions of dollars it takes to build an entire district from start to finish, compared to if they had broken it up and sold off each lot individually each developer would have only had to build 1 building a piece. They could have done this 10+ years ago and by now a couple of the lots would have been built and thered be proposals in the pipeline for a couple more.
I have seen a picture of the embankment taken from the rear of what is now Curry circa 1970. Of course I have memories of it. It was stone, blackened by a century of grit.
 

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