Cape Cod Rail, Bridges and Highways

Charlie_mta said:
I'm non-partisan. I hate all of them, LOL.
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Then you're just blind to reality.

This isn't a "both sides are bad!" thing. This is the American government being held hostage by people who have no intention of governing because, unfortunately, governing helps too many groups of people they would rather harm than help.
 
BronsonShore said:
Then you're just blind to reality.

This isn't a "both sides are bad!" thing. This is the American government being held hostage by people who have no intention of governing because, unfortunately, governing helps too many groups of people they would rather harm than help.
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I hear ya. I just wish we had a more multi-party system. The two-party system we currently have is corrupt. In any case, I hope the funding for the Sagamore Bridge project will be restored once the federal government shutdown is done.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
Last time I was on the Cape, right before the election, I saw a big pro-Trump rally at the base of one of the bridges. Looks like the leopards got to their faces, too.
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This would be at the Cape side of the Bourne Bridge, by the rotary, likely organized by the United Cape Patriots, an ultra right-wing group. That has been their favorite public perch for years.

While southern Plymouth County and the Cape does tend to run more conservative, the Patriots group is hardly representative of the region. Note that none of Cape towns voted in the majority for our current president.
 
www.bostonglobe.com

Mass. is seizing a dozen-plus homes for a new $2b Cape bridge. Those spared question if they’re even better off. - The Boston Globe

Massachusetts’ $2.1 billion plan to replace the Sagamore Bridge is carving a literal path through a Bourne neighborhood.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
To begin clearing the way for the new Sagamore Bridge, state officials in March began formally telling residents of the Round Hill neighborhood that they intended to seize their properties.
In all, officials said they intend to take 13 homes and seven other vacant properties through the power of eminent domain, with four deals with residents slated to close in January and the rest intended to be completed by the end of 2026. A MassDOT spokesperson said the state is also making 17 other “partial acquisitions,” in which it takes a portion of a larger property.
The state will use the cleared neighborhood to stage equipment during the project, and to eventually house basins to catch storm water running off the new bridge, said Luisa Paiewonsky, executive director of megaproject delivery for MassDOT.
Paiewonsky said officials intend to give homeowners a long runway for leaving. The state is putting each property through a three-step appraisal process, and has offered to help homeowners identify new properties to buy.
State officials said homeowners could also rent their homes from the government after it seizes them if they need additional time to find their next place, though some residents have chafed at the idea of paying rent to live in homes that had just been taken away from them.
“We started early so there would need to be no rush,” Paiewonsky said. “We want to make sure the bridge project is not slowed down in any way — and make sure homeowners are not hustled out of their homes.”
The state Constitution dictates that property owners must receive “reasonable compensation” when their homes are seized. Michaud, who has lived on Cecilia Terrace for nearly 30 years, said the state offered her more than she would get “if I put it on the market.”
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MassDOT's January 20th "Recreation Open House" presentation now shows a date of 2037 for completion of the new Sagamore bridges. I also see the CapeFLYER Bourne station will be relocated closer to the Gallo Ice Arena to accommodate the new Bourne bridges.

Sagamore bridges timeline.jpg


relocated CapeFLYER Bourne station.jpg
 
How the hell does it take an full DECADE to build a not particularly long or complicated bridge?! The entire fucking Big Dig took only a little more time than that.
 
ceo said:
How the hell does it take an full DECADE to build a not particularly long or complicated bridge?! The entire fucking Big Dig took only a little more time than that.
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Remember its 2 parallel bridges. The first bridge needs to be built and opened before they can demolish the existing span and build the second bridge - the first bridge will be done in 2033 (5 years from NTP) and carry all traffic until they finish its twin - 4-5 years each doesn't seem too ludicrous.
 
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www.bostonglobe.com

Mass. officials began seizing homes for a new Cape bridge. They won’t say how much they’re paying for them. - The Boston Globe

Massachusetts officials refused to disclose how much taxpayer money they’re giving individual property owners to clear space for a new $2.1 billion Sagamore Bridge.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com
Weeks after they began seizing homes in Bourne to clear space for a new $2.1 billion Sagamore Bridge, Massachusetts officials are refusing to disclose how much taxpayer money they’re giving individual property owners. They also argue that, under state law, they may not have to release that information for years to come.
The Healey administration’s decision to obscure the payments have raised fresh questions about transparency around the state’s eminent domain law, a doctrine rooted in the Massachusetts Constitution and the basis by which the state is taking roughly a dozen homes as part of the Cape Cod bridge megaproject.
[...]
State officials last month formally seized the first five homes as part of the Sagamore Bridge project. When uprooting homeowners — some of whom have lived in Bourne’s Round Hill neighborhood for decades — the state is constitutionally required to offer them “reasonable compensation.”
The assessed values of the five properties seized so far total nearly $2.9 million, according to the town’s online database. In determining each home’s fair market value — which could be far higher than the town’s assessment — state officials said they put each home through a three-step appraisal process before telling homeowners what amount they would receive.
[..]
In all, officials said they intend to take 13 homes, plus seven other vacant properties. MassDOT officials said they expect to complete another wave of residential takings in March.
Under an updated timeline the state released last month, officials said they planned to finish acquiring the various properties by the fall of 2027, with construction starting in the months afterward. The old bridge will be replaced by two twin spans, the first of which would open to traffic in 2033 and the second by 2037.
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Stlin said:
Remember its 2 parallel bridges. The first bridge needs to be built and opened before they can demolish the existing span and build the second bridge - the first bridge will be done in 2033 (5 years from NTP) and carry all traffic until they finish its twin - 4-5 years each doesn't seem too ludicrous.
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Are we really all conditioned into believing that building a bridge span should take 4-5 years? On the face of it, I agree it doesn't seem too bad, but thinking about it more it seems like 4-5 years would be more reasonable for both spans. We are talking about approximately TEN YEARS to build two spans? The new Tappen Zee bridge took about 5.5 for both spans and includes things that we most certainly won't get. "Featuring dedicated bus lanes and a shared path for bicyclists and pedestrians, the bridge also was built with the capacity to accommodate commuter rail between its two spans in the future." (source).

What are we doing wrong in the state that drags out construction so bloody long?
 
CBCArch61 said:
Are we really all conditioned into believing that building a bridge span should take 4-5 years? On the face of it, I agree it doesn't seem too bad, but thinking about it more it seems like 4-5 years would be more reasonable for both spans. We are talking about approximately TEN YEARS to build two spans? The new Tappen Zee bridge took about 5.5 for both spans and includes things that we most certainly won't get. "Featuring dedicated bus lanes and a shared path for bicyclists and pedestrians, the bridge also was built with the capacity to accommodate commuter rail between its two spans in the future." (source).

What are we doing wrong in the state that drags out construction so bloody long?
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I think the previous post explained it (Stlin) "Remember its 2 parallel bridges. The first bridge needs to be built and opened before they can demolish the existing span and build the second bridge"
 
citydweller said:
I think the previous post explained it (Stlin) "Remember its 2 parallel bridges. The first bridge needs to be built and opened before they can demolish the existing span and build the second bridge"
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Ummmm, I think you may have missed the point of my post.

Stlin used the two bridges as a an explanation to which I responded asking why we think two parallel spans should take close to a decade to build using the example of the Tappan Zee Bridge (also two spans) taking about the same amount of time as a single span for the proposed Sagamore bridge. I ended by asking what we are doing in this State that drags out construction timelines so much.

Not to mention this is just one of the two bridges that need to be replaced. Extrapolating out timelines, should we expect the Bourne Bridge to be delivered in 20 years?
 
I'm sure an equivalent project in China would take a fraction of the time to complete. Not saying they're anything to emulate, but we could probably streamline our processes.
 
Ive mentioned it before but in october 1948 4 engineers drew up the concept for the turbojet version of the b-52 in a dayton ohio hotel room on a single friday night. Boeing was given the production contract in february 1951 and the first pre-production test bed plane the yb-52 had its first flight in april 1952. Then the first full production plane the b-52b rolled off the production line in march 1954. Thats just about 2 years from initial contract, to test flights, to full rate production and 5 years from drafting paper to planes rolling off the production line.

In 2021 the CERP (commercial engine replacement program) to re-engine our existing b-52h’s with already existing rolls royce f130 turbofans from gulfstream business jets was signed. This also includes adding an/apg-79 radars from the f-16 as well. So no new engine had to be developed and no new radar had to be created. The b-52j was expected to reach initial operational capability in 2035, but that has slipped to 2036 now. So it took roughly 2 years to go from contract to production, and 5 years from paper to production, but its going to take 15 years to take already existing business jet engines and f-16 radars and put them on our already existing b-52h’s. Things take a loooooong time now.
 
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CBCArch61 said:
Ummmm, I think you may have missed the point of my post.

Stlin used the two bridges as a an explanation to which I responded asking why we think two parallel spans should take close to a decade to build using the example of the Tappan Zee Bridge (also two spans) taking about the same amount of time as a single span for the proposed Sagamore bridge. I ended by asking what we are doing in this State that drags out construction timelines so much.

Not to mention this is just one of the two bridges that need to be replaced. Extrapolating out timelines, should we expect the Bourne Bridge to be delivered in 20 years?
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Specific to the Tappan Zee, they built both new spans simultaneously, while the existing span continued to stand and carry traffic.
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For the Cape Bridges, my understanding is that the second span literally will be built in the overlapping physical volume in space that is currently occupied by the existing Sagamore bridge - in other words, the existing bridge needs to come down first because it's standing where the second bridge is going. My understanding is, and I could be mistaken, is that there were limitations to deflecting the new bridges off axis enough to allow both spans to be built without affecting the existing bridge, especially since you have to allow for cranes, etc and vertical access between the old and new for construction.

Since it's basically replacing the bridges on the same footprint, that always ends up leading to half and half replacement, it also reduces the need to expand the RoW, ED too many properties, etc.
 
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