RandomWalk
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What’s the modeling of the traffic flow if Dartmouth is closed?
Copley Square Revamp | Back Bay
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theSil
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Echoing what @FK4 pointed out, I think the selection of pavers is one of the biggest issues here.
@Bananarama's photo feels like the two dimensional version of how today's architects "break up the facade" of a five-over-one. We have 6+ different surface treatments in a small area with no clear hierarchy. Then the largest sections depicted in @stick n move's photo reads as "millennial gray" luxury vinyl plank flooring. The fact they change direction makes them even more noticeable.
Many of the elements would be completely appropriate on the Seaport waterfront, but feel very incompatible with Trinity Church and the surroundings here.
I really don't understand why people think the design of the plaza needs to fit in with Trinity Church. Everything around Copley is the perfect Boston style: a total mishmash of whatever was popular at the time. Trinity is really different from the Old South Church. The Fairmount is really different from the Westin. The library is really different from the Hancock. The commercial buildings along Boylston are all different styles.
The architectural context the plaza fits into is... <shrug> whatever? And personally, I always like this aspect of Boston. Judging by the sheer volume of pictures of Trinity juxtaposed with the Hancock, I'd say other people appreciate it to. I have my own criticisms of some of this design, but redoing Copley with contemporary styles seems to totally fit with how the rest of the area works.
theSil
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I'd explain my thinking by comparing this to the overhaul of Winthrop Square in recent years. Compare it in 2009 and in 2024, after it was redeveloped. To me, the previous iteration distinctly reads, "Northeastern American city, early 20th century built environment". The current iteration isn't bad in the abstract, but culturally and architecturally it communicates very little sense of place. It could be a newly constructed public space in practically any city in the world.
I'm not someone who thinks that all architecture and design in Boston should conform to a single style (I love the juxtaposition of Trinity Church and the Hancock, for example), but for a city and neighborhood so defined by their historical character, I think our most important and visible civic spaces should read as "Boston". Copley Square has of course taken on many different looks, and perhaps it's just nostalgia, but the previous version looked much more at home in its environment than this one does to me.
I'm not someone who thinks that all architecture and design in Boston should conform to a single style (I love the juxtaposition of Trinity Church and the Hancock, for example), but for a city and neighborhood so defined by their historical character, I think our most important and visible civic spaces should read as "Boston". Copley Square has of course taken on many different looks, and perhaps it's just nostalgia, but the previous version looked much more at home in its environment than this one does to me.
stick n move
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This pic gives a nice overall perspective of the layout. I like the curve or indentation along St James. Also the way all paths funnel people towards the middle. It's a dynamic park that will get better with age (and maybe some tweaks). When the new trees in the middle (circled) mature in a couple years, it will emphasize that funnel towards the middle even more..
Good point! Too bad that a major gain (construction of Winthrop Center in place of a horrendous parking garage) led to a smaller-scale negative with the updated park. Why'd they have to mess with it?!
And what happened to the John Winthrop statue?
JumboBuc
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I agree with @theSil's take on Winthrop Square, but it too will look much better in a few years once the trees grow in.
As to the statue, it was never a statue of John Winthrop! It's a statue of Robert Burns that was originally in the Fens, but was taken from the Fens and moved to Winthrop Square by a developer in the '70s. It was moved back to its original and rightful spot in the Fens when Winthrop Square closed down for construction in 2019.
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2026/06/07/opinion/copley-square-park-redesign/
"Someone needs to do something to activate this place properly [mind you, we have no idea who that someone might be]"
"Someone needs to do something to activate this place properly [mind you, we have no idea who that someone might be]"
thank you for inserting some logic and facts.
"The “new” Copley Square has all the makings of a European piazza, complete with the beautiful Trinity Church as a backdrop. But European town squares are usually surrounded by small cafes that spill out onto those otherwise unfriendly paving stones in warmer weather. Just try getting a cup of coffee in Copley Square today — or, heaven help us, a glass of wine"
Been saying this about City Hall Plaza for over a decade. It's so simple. No clue why we can't do it correctly.
Been saying this about City Hall Plaza for over a decade. It's so simple. No clue why we can't do it correctly.
HenryAlan
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City Hall Plaza actually does have a beer garden, but it's kind of tucked away, and certainly not the sort of wide ranging and open seating you'll find in European plazas. It shouldn't be hard for somebody with a push cart and some folding chairs to just roll in and set something up each morning.
Justbuildit
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The issue is that these public spaces are bounded by monster multi lane roads that make plaza-adjacent businesses feel a world away. For Copley, if any of the Boylston businesses or the Fairmont were just one small travel lane from the plaza it would feel like you could flow between the spaces. But you can't because they're dedicated to cars. For City Hall, there are actually a few places right nearby including the excellent Dubliner across Cambridge, but that feels like a different neighborhood because of the wide road. These European plazas with cafes and bars spilling into them work because they're built for pedestrians. Barring some free standing food trucks/huts like Flour in the Common, it's not going to get any better.
Take a look at St Sulpice in Paris (which, by the way, has no grass...). Excellent example of fitting a plaza, a historic church, and tons of commercial uses right in the middle of the city. And it's got a few lanes for car travel too! The difference is the roads are small and low speed, and it's clearly dedicated to people over cars.
Take a look at St Sulpice in Paris (which, by the way, has no grass...). Excellent example of fitting a plaza, a historic church, and tons of commercial uses right in the middle of the city. And it's got a few lanes for car travel too! The difference is the roads are small and low speed, and it's clearly dedicated to people over cars.
This! 100%The issue is that these public spaces are bounded by monster multi lane roads that make plaza-adjacent businesses feel a world away. For Copley, if any of the Boylston businesses or the Fairmont were just one small travel lane from the plaza it would feel like you could flow between the spaces. But you can't because they're dedicated to cars. For City Hall, there are actually a few places right nearby including the excellent Dubliner across Cambridge, but that feels like a different neighborhood because of the wide road. These European plazas with cafes and bars spilling into them work because they're built for pedestrians. Barring some free standing food trucks/huts like Flour in the Common, it's not going to get any better.
Take a look at St Sulpice in Paris (which, by the way, has no grass...). Excellent example of fitting a plaza, a historic church, and tons of commercial uses right in the middle of the city. And it's got a few lanes for car travel too! The difference is the roads are small and low speed, and it's clearly dedicated to people over cars.
I'd add that, in my experience, the traffic at Boylston and Dartmouth is among the shittiest traffic in the city. And by "shittiest," I mean that's where I hear some of the most honking, depending on time of day. That's where I'm most likely to see intentionally-loud cars and motorcycles. That's where I see drivers slamming on the brakes because they planned to run a red light and realized they couldn't. Twice recently, I saw a driver make a right turn, right though a crowded crosswalk. The driver didn't have the right of way, they just drove slowly through a crowd of people and expected the pedestrians to move. All of this makes getting to and being in Copley much worse. Copley Square isn't that big, and so you're never far enough to not hear and smell the traffic. It degrades the quality of the park when you have to listen to people angrily blast 100 decibel air horns at each other.
The new design seems to account for this somewhat. It seems like a lot of the seating has moved to the interior of the park. The main hardscaped area for events has moved to the interior, too, and the raised grove acts as a buffer from Boylston The grass area got moved to be next to the church and St. James Street, which in my experience is by far the quietest of the adjacent streets. I don't know if the designers were explicitly trying to move the useful spaces away from traffic, but they did. And the few times I've been through there lately, it seems good.
FWIW, I work adjacent to Copley Square and met some friends for dinner last week (all'antico vinaio sandwiches) at one of the tables + chairs pictured above. It was a great meal, and the seating areas were all full. There was a dance troupe filming some sort of act in the on the main area. It was around 7:00pm. I didn't notice any of the car activity, and the noise was not an issue. My one complaint is that the trash cans were full from all the diners before us. Perhaps public works is still dialing in their pickup cadence, or number / size of bins required.