Portland Passenger Rail

PWMFlyer said:
Casco Bay Rail is starting operations on the Berlin Line from Portland to Auburn, now what happens about the trail?
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Casco Bay Rail

Rail & Logistics Solutions Serving Maine & New England
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They acquired a locomotive, but scam outfit Boston Surface RR (of vaporware Providence-Worcester private passenger service fame) also did that (briefly...until it was repossessed for nonpayment of lease). Leasing a unit is not hard. It's everything else in the business plan that's hard, and so far there's nothing to suggest that there's anything substantive in Casco Bay's business plan. Certainly not for the Berlin Sub, which in addition to the trail plans has already had CSX rip out the Yarmouth Jct. diamond and junction track connection leaving the branch presently inoperable to where any prospective customers might be located. They *might* have a leg to stand on with CSX's plans to start subletting rights to low-rent shortlines on the Waterville-Augusta and Bangor-Bucksport branches to drum up more poor-man's business than the CSX behemoth itself is interested in self-seeking. But those branches would likely be competitive bids vs. the Maine Switching Services outfit that now runs the Rockland Branch, so Casco Bay is no shoo-in for those either unless they can raise some cash and show some meat to their business plans.

I'm not ready to declare them an outright scam like Boston Surface (or that fly-by-night Golden Eagle RR that wanted to operate the Mountain Division several years ago) because the yet-to-come CSX sublet opportunities have real (if small) business potential. But Casco Bay is definitely over-promising something they can't deliver with the Berlin Sub claims, which is not a good omen for their reputation.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
They acquired a locomotive, but scam outfit Boston Surface RR (of vaporware Providence-Worcester private passenger service fame) also did that (briefly...until it was repossessed for nonpayment of lease). Leasing a unit is not hard. It's everything else in the business plan that's hard, and so far there's nothing to suggest that there's anything substantive in Casco Bay's business plan. Certainly not for the Berlin Sub, which in addition to the trail plans has already had CSX rip out the Yarmouth Jct. diamond and junction track connection leaving the branch presently inoperable to where any prospective customers might be located. They *might* have a leg to stand on with CSX's plans to start subletting rights to low-rent shortlines on the Waterville-Augusta and Bangor-Bucksport branches to drum up more poor-man's business than the CSX behemoth itself is interested in self-seeking. But those branches would likely be competitive bids vs. the Maine Switching Services outfit that now runs the Rockland Branch, so Casco Bay is no shoo-in for those either unless they can raise some cash and show some meat to their business plans.

I'm not ready to declare them an outright scam like Boston Surface (or that fly-by-night Golden Eagle RR that wanted to operate the Mountain Division several years ago) because the yet-to-come CSX sublet opportunities have real (if small) business potential. But Casco Bay is definitely over-promising something they can't deliver with the Berlin Sub claims, which is not a good omen for their reputation.
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Before posting, you might want to watch what you post. I was part of the Golden Eagle project, we were just about to purchase a short haul line in NH until the founder passed away . Get the facts first. Just saying
 
PWMFlyer said:
Before posting, you might want to watch what you post. I was part of the Golden Eagle project, we were just about to purchase a short haul line in NH until the founder passed away . Get the facts first. Just saying
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I followed the RR.net threads on Golden Eagle for years. I'm very comfortable with what I said, because whole LOTS did not add up with their business plan and media practices.
 
Jim Cohen, former mayor of Portland (in the pre-elective days), chair of the NNEPRA Board of Trustees and one time high school debate champion (sorry, he and his partner were unstoppable), has an op-ed supporting the train station proposal (I'm gifting you all the link). I'll just say what I've said all along: the arguments against the location are making the perfect (yet unattainable) the enemy of the good, and the arguments for moving are far better than those for staying at PTC.
 
The station will be a relatively quiet one if it moves here. The passengers will be primarily separated, those going north and those going south, and so it will be overall, a lonely place to catch a train. And, considerably more dangerous. Yes, dangerous. If the Saco station can see 21 non-passengers in the station at a time, drug dealing, a knife brandished, frequent arguing and melt downs, and a female fist fight that caused the police to come, then Portland's will fare much worse. In the winter I took the Saco station into Boston about a dozen times and witnessed all of those incidents. I took photos too. And what have they done about it? Nothing. The Portland station needs to go back to the old Union Station location and heat applied to Maine Health for not sharing the property. They can then show the city that they are a good community partner. They could build above it, like what's done in Boston. NNEPRA has made up their minds though. They desperately want to reduce that added 30 minutes to the round trip to appease a few Brunswick passengers who have been complaining loudly, and to get that federal money fast so that they can spend it (both of those points I witnessed the director whine about in a meeting a while back). And building a new station on the old Union Station lot would allow an entrance at Congress and St. John streets, so now it's a short walk to Maine Medical (2 short blocks), Hadlock, and Fitzpatrick. Simply wishing the area they want to build on will magically become a new development hotspot is not realistic sandwiched in between the hill, the tracks, and numerous industries including a chicken parts processing plant marketed to fast food chains. I don't always have to think big, just better is fine with me.
 
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First, thank you @MarkHB for the gift article link.

Second, @TC_zoid while I understand your point about the public safety implications of the proposed station site, I do want to play devil’s advocate for a moment and point out the Saco station is unstaffed, while the relocated Portland station is envisioned to have a 750 square foot waiting area with ticketing, which probably means it will be staffed. That fact won’t magically make all public safety issues disappear, but the staff presence will probably serve as a deterrent for the more out-of-control stuff you observed at Saco. At the very least, we can hope so. Like I said in my last post, it’s gonna take a lot of lipstick to make this pig look good.
 
riptide said:
First, thank you @MarkHB for the gift article link.

Second, @TC_zoid while I understand your point about the public safety implications of the proposed station site, I do want to play devil’s advocate for a moment and point out the Saco station is unstaffed, while the relocated Portland station is envisioned to have a 750 square foot waiting area with ticketing, which probably means it will be staffed. That fact won’t magically make all public safety issues disappear, but the staff presence will probably serve as a deterrent for the more out-of-control stuff you observed at Saco. At the very least, we can hope so. Like I said in my last post, it’s gonna take a lot of lipstick to make this pig look good.
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Good point. However, this lone ticket agent will go home for the night after the 6:33 train, the last one, departs. It's then open house for "non passengers" to do what they want in here. NNEPRA will have spent ALL of that $48 million so nothing will be left to keep an agent or security guard past that time. A private facility like PTC is always best because they care about the joint. It's theirs. I'll bet Concord Coach is celebrating this move as their business will increase. And 255 new market rate apartments open up across the street next year. These new residents aren't taking the train to Boston. And soon before this new train station opens, if I were CC, I'd replace the carpeting in their building with something nice, add some warm lighting and more comfortable furniture, and blow out the old Amtrak desk and closet, then renovate it with some expansion behind (there is room for a shipping container building here) for a combo Dunkin'/Baskin Robbins (though Aroma Joe's and Fielder's Choice would get my vote for a real local accent). Who's taking the train now? You have to keep with the times. We love comfort, and food and drink fun, and PTC borders all of the Thompson's Point action.
 
TC_zoid said:
The Portland station needs to go back to the old Union Station location and heat applied to Maine Health for not sharing the property.
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That leaves out the other neighbor: the county jail, who are adamant about not wanting a transportation facility right next to them, and who own the land on the opposite side of the tracks which would be needed for an opposite-side platform. And, their land cannot be taken by eminent domain since they're a government entity. So even if MaineHealth wanted to play ball, the jail precludes them from using that site.
 
Given that it was only built in the 1990's and is the largest county jail in the state, it's highly unlikely. If you factor in the necessity of convincing the entire county (including the folks in New Gloucester and Harrison) to vote for a very large bond issue for the sake of making the train station a 1/4-mile closer to Congress St., it's incredibly unlikely.
 
I assume the parking garage was built on the opposite side of the right of way to prevent shifting it away from the jail.
 
I'm not sure what the jail has to do with it other than maybe the house structure to the far left being moved. And it's such a big lot that Maine Health bought (the shopping center and parking lot). Providence was able to squeeze things in at their busy station, in between housing and a road (reference below). Portland needs to start planning for the future due to its steady growth, instead of being impulsive for that "quick fix." The peninsula is only about 3 square miles and you can already see a crowding effect with over 1,000 new units of housing underway, an adjacent and massive new technology school (with most of its students living on the peninsula), and then the large Foreside development. Building a train station that is convenient and safe for walking is the better way to go. We're also starting to see an uptick in violence along blind spots on pedestrian ways. The proposed new location will be low hanging fruit for the miscreants and ne'er-do-wells.

Providence Amtrak station... (I love how smart they are with a micro police station inside).

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The goal is to have platforms on both sides, very similar to what is being built at Wells. The jail owns the land on the opposite side of the tracks where the platform and structure for the overhead walkway would need to go. The jail doesn't want a train station (read: convenient escape route, plus lots of crowds of strangers for escapees to vanish into) immediately next door, and they can't be forced to sell the land.

So far as security goes, the current station has one guy working when the late train arrives to collect parking fees. There's no one watching the parking lot now.
 
If we were on the northeast corridor, things would be different. Washington DC, Philly, Etc where you would get the traffic required for a real station. Having restaurants, stores, etc are not in the cards. Just like the PTC, people come and go. Yes I would like all that, but its not realistic. If I was going to South Station and taking a train to DC, I would partake in food and beverages. Most drink and eat on the train to North Station. There was talk of a train to NYC via Worcester several years ago. Again, we are a commuter station....
 
MarkHB said:
The goal is to have platforms on both sides, very similar to what is being built at Wells. The jail owns the land on the opposite side of the tracks where the platform and structure for the overhead walkway would need to go. The jail doesn't want a train station (read: convenient escape route, plus lots of crowds of strangers for escapees to vanish into) immediately next door, and they can't be forced to sell the land.

So far as security goes, the current station has one guy working when the late train arrives to collect parking fees. There's no one watching the parking lot now.
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There is a pvt security firm that patrols the lots in unmarked cars. My friend works the overnight and its eye opening. Cars being broken into, homeless, drugs, trafficking is big right now , prostituition.
 
In the last decade, I've taken many--too many--trains and buses between Portland, Saco, Boston, New Haven and NYC. Concord Coach, overall, provides great service and the drivers are wonderful. I like a larger train station model with an escalator going down to the individual trains waiting on the tracks. One waits above, comfortably, until the announcement comes to go down soon before it's going to leave. I'd say that now, the best experience I've had is the new Moynihan Train Hall for Amtrak, across from Penn Station and MSG. It features a spacious light-filled hall with many F&D options and shops. The long bar that runs in between the shops, etc. is filled with light from above and makes for a GREAT place to wait for your train. I loathe stations with the overhead walkways to the other side. They isolate passengers from the experience and present blind spots for crime. At North Station, I enjoy its new F&D space along with the security idea of only allowing passengers in the waiting area by using a current QR ticket code. It has solved all of the loitering issues. (Ironically, for me the most dangerous travel experiences I've had were in tiny Saco, Maine.) This new Portland station proposal solves only one problem: backing up. Brunswick passengers will now get a faster trip. The director of NNEPRA in that meeting I attended a few months ago kept whining about the Brunswick passengers, that they were pressuring her for this new station. For Portland passengers, the current station at PTC is safe and easy to get into and out. It does need new carpeting and seating and maybe that shipping container on the side for a Dunkin', and then we're good to keep on traveling into the next decade. Do we really care about the few Brunswick passengers (primarily Bowdoin faculty, admin, etc.) who demand a faster trip?

But we do have our wonderful Jetport for plane travel--good job on that. Maybe in the not too distant future we'll have some EVTOL options from PWM to Logan. 65 minutes ETA?
 
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TC_zoid said:
In the last decade, I've taken many--too many--trains and buses between Portland, Saco, Boston, New Haven and NYC. Concord Coach, overall, provides great service and the drivers are wonderful. I like a larger train station model with an escalator going down to the individual trains waiting on the tracks. One waits above, comfortably, until the announcement comes to go down soon before it's going to leave. I'd say that now, the best experience I've had is the new Moynihan Train Hall for Amtrak, across from Penn Station and MSG. It features a spacious light-filled hall with many F&D options and shops. The long bar that runs in between the shops, etc. is filled with light from above and makes for a GREAT place to wait for your train. I loathe stations with the overhead walkways to the other side. They isolate passengers from the experience and present blind spots for crime. At North Station, I enjoy its new F&D space along with the security idea of only allowing passengers in the waiting area by using a current QR ticket code. It has solved all of the loitering issues. (Ironically, for me the most dangerous travel experiences I've had were in tiny Saco, Maine.) This new Portland station proposal solves only one problem: backing up. Brunswick passengers will now get a faster trip. The director of NNEPRA in that meeting I attended a few months ago kept whining about the Brunswick passengers, that they were pressuring her for this new station. For Portland passengers, the current station at PTC is safe and easy to get into and out. It does need new carpeting and seating and maybe that shipping container on the side for a Dunkin', and then we're good to keep on traveling into the next decade. Do we really care about the few Brunswick passengers (primarily Bowdoin faculty, admin, etc.) who demand a faster trip?

But we do have our wonderful Jetport for plane travel--good job on that. Maybe in the not too distant future we'll have some EVTOL options from PWM to Logan. 65 minutes ETA?
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The 15-minute ends change costs NNEPRA $1M per year in extra operating, labor, and fuel costs for no good reason and no discernible benefit. Costs that are going to escalate in future years with inflation. Having to wait in Portland for all that time each trip to get the train that's already there moving again discourages ridership that a pick-up-and-go stop would instead generate, so it's not all about Brunswick riders either. The greater efficiency of a mainline stop pays off both in cost savings and revenues for the main Boston-Portland audience. That's why they're doing this. Brunswick isn't wagging the dog here...far from it.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The 15-minute ends change costs NNEPRA $1M per year in extra operating, labor, and fuel costs for no good reason and no discernible benefit. Costs that are going to escalate in future years with inflation. Having to wait in Portland for all that time each trip to get the train that's already there moving again discourages ridership that a pick-up-and-go stop would instead generate, so it's not all about Brunswick riders either. The greater efficiency of a mainline stop pays off both in cost savings and revenues for the main Boston-Portland audience. That's why they're doing this. Brunswick isn't wagging the dog here...far from it.
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$40+ million to solve a $1 million/year problem that impacts a few dozen "commuters" and delivers a suboptimal solution that leaves little room for growth, little multimodality, and near-zero integration with the fabric of the city smells funny. It's clear that there are serious politics at play. I'd rather see this effort die if it means a better future solution.
 
Perhaps the best feature of PTC, when you are on a schedule, is that when you find out the train will be delayed going south--and I've seen up to 2 hours or more--you then say "screw it" and walk fifteen feet to the Concord Coach counter to buy a bus ticket as they leave every hour (for Boston). My advice to the ladies using this new station will be to always make sure you have your pepper spray.
 
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