Longfellow
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Yeah this has been major drama in somerville. The amount of tears shed about this project has been insanity
Copper Mill Development | Elm Street and Grove Street | Davis Square
- Thread starter Equilibria
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I'm not saying east has to take the burden but there are empty sites like the old taco loco, or the site on the corner of Broadway and McGrath that should be developed.
East End Grille has been vacant for years as has the bakery, all with plans for new housing that have come to nothing.
There are plenty of derelict sites and vacant low rise units all over the city crying out for life before putting a huge tower in to an already busy area.
Blackbird
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Six 7-story buildings would be more impactful than one 26-story…
I said it before but I'll say it again. Without major upward rezoning, Davis should lose its red line stop and it should instead be routed directly between Alewife and Porter.
Six 7-story buildings scattered around the city will cause way more traffic and gridlock issues than one 26 story building next to a red line station. Should we put a ton of new people within a 30-second somersault of a major train station, or should we put them all in further flung areas requiring more parking, longer walks, and extra bus transfers?
Six 7-story buildings scattered around the city will cause way more traffic and gridlock issues than one 26 story building next to a red line station. Should we put a ton of new people within a 30-second somersault of a major train station, or should we put them all in further flung areas requiring more parking, longer walks, and extra bus transfers?
you just like really tall buildings (which is fine)
There's plenty of room for development within 5 mins walk of T stations in Somerville.
Look at the taco loco site, it's a two min walk from Sullivan and it's a blight.
Look at the whole inner belt and brickbottom, on the doorstep of East Somerville T station
Look at Boynton yards. All the old scrap yards sitting idle waiting to be developed, minutes from Union T station.
Look at the bio tech hole near twin city. 5 mins from Lechmere
You could probably add more residential to Assembly too.
Deveop the Gilman square site quicker too.
So much, with out pissing half of davis off with a tower.
I think if they go up 7 stories in davis, no one would bat an eyelid. Thered be TOD without much of a fight but the developer wouldnt make as much.
You got to pick your battles.
As for taking away the T station???
Do we take away Harvards next because there's no highrise residential there either.
I do, but that doesn't mean they don't also make the most sense. They tend to be much higher quality builds than the 5-over-1's, allowing for greater density on smaller footprints. A few towers also really help with navigation, especially areas like Davis that are "hidden" rather than right on the main drags. So they look better, bring more people, feel more like a city, create visual landmarks, and allow us to preserve more of the remaining neighborhoods by going tall on the empty parcels. I love the triple decker neighborhoods and don't want to see them razed for a bunch of 5-over-1 dogshit buildings.
Harvard built up a real "city" area around the station. I lived in Davis from 2006-2011 and don't even notice any changes from 2011 to today, and it still feels more like a sleepy village than an urban center. It hasn't held up its end of the bargain and doesn't deserve a major T stop on the Red Line without adjusting accordingly.
F-Line to Dudley
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The last time the T published the Blue Book compendium, Davis ranked 12th out of 63 prepayment stations in ridership.
I assume if we're holding them to this lofty standard that the other 51 stations below it are goners too and we can just kiss the entire Blue Line and all of the Green Central Subway except Copley goodbye?
I assume if we're holding them to this lofty standard that the other 51 stations below it are goners too and we can just kiss the entire Blue Line and all of the Green Central Subway except Copley goodbye?
The Red Line is the most major of the 4 subway lines. A stop on the Red Line should be taken more seriously. They extended it out over 40 years ago but Davis still feels like a village, including being stuck in amber since I moved away in 2011.
Also it's the next one from Alewife so some of that ridership are suburban commuters skipping past the first station.
F-Line to Dudley
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Do you have any data to back this up, or is this just your own personal feels about what (read: height) makes a destination "serious"? Do the 15 Red stops that didn't make the Top 12 in systemwide ridership flunk the "seriousness" test even more badly?
And what "suburban commuters" are using Davis instead of Alewife? There's not one parking space at Davis, and none of the buses go to any place more suburban than Arlington Center or Medford Square.
I absolutely do not believe a tower would piss off half of Davis.
I'll keep saying, this project reminds me a lot of the one that actually went up in Cambridge Central Square. That's a 20 story tower among mostly four story buildings. It turned out great. I live nearby. I intentionally drop "that new 20 story building on Mass Ave" into conversation with people around here, and so far no one has known what I'm talking about. Not once. People will know all the restaurants on the ground floor but won't believe me that they're in a 20 story tower. I've had multiple people tell me bluntly that there are no 20 story buildings in Central Square. I guess people don't look up much? Or they don't notice? Or don't care? And in any case the height of that building has not affected anyone's life in the slightest (except of course for the people who now get to live there).
Whenever I talk to normal people (people who don't hang out on architecture forums), they just don't really care about (or even notice) building heights. If anyone cares, it's some mild preference and not anything to get pissed off over. It is an extreme minority who really care about building heights. For some stupid reason we let them set our housing policy, and it is to our detriment.
Site of some recent residential tower developments: Union Sq, Central Sq., Kendall Sq., Lechmere Sq., Assembly Sq. - the last three having quite a few. The eastern parts of Camber-ville have really born the brunt of residential tower development - it's like there's a societal line that prevents tower construction north/west of ~Harvard. (It's actually gentry nimby-ism...) I'm tired of every single younger adult and adult needing to constantly do more than their fair share to placate the older landed boomers and Gen Xers to just find a place to stay because even more wealthy folks can bid them out of housing in every pleasant neighborhood around the area.
All those sites are also worth developing though many of them will likely not support towers - Davis Square is a neighborhood that would clearly benefit from a dense tower development - it will attract younger and single/coupled folks who will regenerate many of the business areas around just by their sheer presence. The fact that there were also going to be significant inclusionary units as well does good for economic stability in the area.
Your ideas' end result is that East will continue to bear the burden of all residential development.
I've also had this experience - they tell me "the senior building" and that's not that tall even - nor is it on Mass Ave. I had someone "correct" me saying that I was thinking of Back Bay.
Common people just don't care - like you - they just want to have a fairly easy day-to-day life where they can access their needs conveniently.
Dr. Rosen Rosen
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The Union Sq tower got brought up in the thread…I’ve been curious for a while - is that at capacity? There’s still vacant retail around it.
no, your misunderstanding me.
All I'm saying is that the vacant sites in east somerville (and all over the city) should be redeveloped with an impact that's acceptable to most people so they actually get built.
I'm not proposing towers for east somerville, Just actually building the developments planned for derelict sites.
I do think Inner belt/brickbottom/Boynton yards are perfect for high rise residential.
I'm not opposed to the tower in Davis
I can see why it failed tho.
I'm just sick of looking at derelict sites where developers are hoarding land in order to maximise their profit when the cycle changes while everyone argues about 26 storeys in the middle of Davis.
If people really cared about affordable housing or cooling the market, these sites wouldnt be derelict.
Davis was a cash grab that failed. I wont lose any sleep over it.
Buena Vista lot in particular has been plenty used since before and during when I lived there.
Blackbird
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I don’t see the two as apples and apples based on where they are in relation to their respective squares. This one would’ve been smack-dab in the center of Davis. That one is several blocks down the road from Mass and Prospect. Not to mention Mass Ave is a different beast from Elm/Grove/Highland.
This is the problematic part of your position - most people just don't care: if it's more than 6 stories, it might as well be 40 and most people won't bat an eye. They care that there's retail, culture, accommodations, even maybe hotels! Meanwhile, the busybodies that are not "most people", in fact, care far too much than is healthy for democratic oversight of housing productin.