General MBTA Discussion Thread

sneijder

New member
Joined
Jul 25, 2018
Messages
70
Reaction score
7
Not sure if that is really a good way to look at it given that the CR in general is the most subsidized part of the system (not including the ride). Losing money is pretty much what the commuter rail does in its existing form.
Sure, but the providence/worcester lines are taking thousands of cars off the road each rush hour and significantly improving congestion. 15 riders getting on at Foxboro is doing exactly nothing for improving congestion.
 

George_Apley

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
4,033
Reaction score
310
Foxboro does seem like a kind of useless service spur. What was the drive for daily service?
 

HenryAlan

Senior Member
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
2,146
Reaction score
111
It is decreasing service levels to some key parts of the Franklin Line and resulting in a whole lot of delays (I can't be sure the delays are caused by the pilot, but the line's been running okay for a while before this and then suddenly I'm fifteen minutes late to work every day). I think the pilot is still worth it, especially if it results in double-tracking enough of the line to maintain good service levels, but it's definitely having teething problems.
It's a pilot, meaning they will have some kinks to work out. I also wouldn't consider day one ridership to indicate whatever becomes the ultimate long term trend. As for reducing service, is that true? My understanding was that this was basically an extension of the Fairmont line, meaning an increase to number of trains from Readville through Norwood, and no reduction in service further outbound. But I haven't seen the final schedule, so maybe that is no longer the case.
 

jass

Senior Member
Joined
Jul 10, 2006
Messages
4,531
Reaction score
33
Lessons from Septa.

A big spending increase for SEPTA’s smart fare system, approved Thursday, swells the Key card’s primary contract to $192.5 million — about $70 million more than planned when the project began eight years ago.

SEPTA officials said most of that increase would go toward basic annual maintenance and services to keep the system running, but it also included some unexpected costs. Chief among them was $4.4 million to replace the agency’s 4,226 card readers, the devices that process transactions on buses and trolleys, and in transit stations. The six-year-old readers are already obsolete, unable to meet the banking industry’s changing security standards.
 

George_Apley

Moderator
Staff member
Joined
Jan 22, 2012
Messages
4,033
Reaction score
310
Unlimited parking and the hope they visit retail establishments. Retail landlords make more money with increased sales.
In that case then the Krafts should be partnering with the T to put up a ton of advertising on the approaches to Gillette in all directions.
 

palindrome

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 11, 2006
Messages
2,207
Reaction score
3
Also plans to develop a good portion of the lots across from the strip mall section into a giant office park.
 

ulrichomega

New member
Joined
Oct 9, 2017
Messages
98
Reaction score
34
It's a pilot, meaning they will have some kinks to work out. I also wouldn't consider day one ridership to indicate whatever becomes the ultimate long term trend. As for reducing service, is that true? My understanding was that this was basically an extension of the Fairmont line, meaning an increase to number of trains from Readville through Norwood, and no reduction in service further outbound. But I haven't seen the final schedule, so maybe that is no longer the case.
See my post in the thread dedicated to it. I go over a before and after schedule for the Franklin Line. TL;DR is that the inner portions of the line maintain peak hour service at most major stations, and some see a very minor increase. Outer line sees a small net decrease in peak hour service, especially Walpole itself. As far as I can tell it really is mostly just extending a few Fairmount Line trains outwards, but I couldn't find a before schedule for that line. The decrease in service comes from originating a few trains at Foxboro instead of Forge Park/sending a few trains to Foxboro instead of Forge Park. The reality is a bit more complicated than that, but I was just looking at "How many trains are there in peak direction at peak time."

And I agree that day-one ridership is not significantly important here. What is important is that the pilot shows demand, and the Franklin Line can get the infrastructure it needs to really pump the frequency on all parts and the Fairmount can get an extension while not seeing any decrease in service.
 

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
5,367
Reaction score
174
See my post in the thread dedicated to it. I go over a before and after schedule for the Franklin Line. TL;DR is that the inner portions of the line maintain peak hour service at most major stations, and some see a very minor increase. Outer line sees a small net decrease in peak hour service, especially Walpole itself. As far as I can tell it really is mostly just extending a few Fairmount Line trains outwards, but I couldn't find a before schedule for that line. The decrease in service comes from originating a few trains at Foxboro instead of Forge Park/sending a few trains to Foxboro instead of Forge Park. The reality is a bit more complicated than that, but I was just looking at "How many trains are there in peak direction at peak time."

And I agree that day-one ridership is not significantly important here. What is important is that the pilot shows demand, and the Franklin Line can get the infrastructure it needs to really pump the frequency on all parts and the Fairmount can get an extension while not seeing any decrease in service.
This is especially true because the full-build option that outright doubles service to Walpole is very inexpensive as rail service expansion projects go, with a significant amount of the cost already defrayed by the pilot upgrades. A very modest demand pulse leaves them almost no choice but to graduate to that build, and they could swap fewer (paid for) track upgrades in exchange for a dual-branch ADA Walpole Station rebuild for the same costs as the near- decade-old study.

Tees up an exponential service expander at one hell of a bargain. You don't luck into too many projects with that sweet a value proposition.
 

HelloBostonHi

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
476
Reaction score
161
Looking at the shuttle route I can already tell the core RL shutdown next month will be chaos for confused riders... Especially if you're looking for an OL connection.


 

C-Town_Jeff

New member
Joined
Jul 10, 2018
Messages
14
Reaction score
6
Looking at the shuttle route I can already tell the core RL shutdown next month will be chaos for confused riders... Especially if you're looking for an OL connection.
So the shuttles are going to run right past Chinatown Station and Station Street Station and not stop just because they aren't redline stops? And its going to stop at Federal and Franklin and call that a stop at Downtown Crossing? This is just lazy planning.
 

HelloBostonHi

Active Member
Joined
Apr 17, 2018
Messages
476
Reaction score
161
So the shuttles are going to run right past Chinatown Station and Station Street Station and not stop just because they aren't redline stops? And its going to stop at Federal and Franklin and call that a stop at Downtown Crossing? This is just lazy planning.
And weirdly make a stop at government center, but only in one direction... The planning here is obscure... I'm sure they're trying to optimize for least number of stops and Max throughput of people through but I think they've forgotten how many people transfer RL/OL based on there being literally no direct connection in their plans.
 

tysmith95

Senior Member
Joined
Feb 8, 2016
Messages
2,527
Reaction score
16
The issue with Foxboro is that it's a fairly long commute due to the close spacing. Mansfield, which is slightly further from Boston, on one hand takes 38 mins to get to South Station, while Foxboro takes 55 mins. Combine that with crappy frequencies, and ridership is low.
 

fattony

Senior Member
Joined
Jan 28, 2013
Messages
1,892
Reaction score
14
And weirdly make a stop at government center, but only in one direction... The planning here is obscure... I'm sure they're trying to optimize for least number of stops and Max throughput of people through but I think they've forgotten how many people transfer RL/OL based on there being literally no direct connection in their plans.
The Franklin St. stop seems particularly bizarre. That would make much more sense closer to State, with the shuttles traveling on Atlantic and Pearl (2 turns) instead of the zigzag (4 turn) route.
 

F-Line to Dudley

Senior Member
Joined
Nov 2, 2010
Messages
5,367
Reaction score
174
The issue with Foxboro is that it's a fairly long commute due to the close spacing. Mansfield, which is slightly further from Boston, on one hand takes 38 mins to get to South Station, while Foxboro takes 55 mins. Combine that with crappy frequencies, and ridership is low.
It's a pilot. Pilot, pilot, pilot.

If first instinct is to reach for an apples-apples comparison with very much not-pilot Mansfield as an indictment of the service should be enough of a cue to re-wrap brain around the meaning of a limited trial before attempting to dig deeper. All they are trying to do is test a theory that a full-service investment package would meet its goals as a service increaser by taking pulse of the trial's vital signs. The only goal is proving an evidence-backed basis for future growth...NOT see that growth start materializing right now today ahead of the service levels that would underwrite them.

This is not like the other 13 local schedules on the system. Make sure you're asking the right set of questions before attempting a comparison with them.
 

The EGE

Active Member
Joined
Jun 29, 2013
Messages
682
Reaction score
17
Does anyone remember this headhouse? I believe that it was at Chinatown (then Essex) and built around 1972, but I'm not sure which corner.
essex.JPG
 

Top