Gillette Property Redevelopment | South Boston

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shmessy

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Ron Newman said:
Uh, let's not kick Gillette out please? They provide jobs manufacturing useful products, and seem quite profitable. We don't have a lot of this kind of industry left.
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Ron, I would never want Gillette the company to leave area.

However, Gillette the 5-football field long low slung BUILDING should be gently and economically encouraged to build a really cool mini city (a la New Balance) along the Mystic River or Quincy (being that their plant needs waterfront access).

I think you would agree the current low slung, sprawling Gillette building that is splayed across what could potentially be a spectacular - one of a kind - urban space (Good Lord - - just imagine for a moment what Fort Point Channel could actually be some day) is as much of a spectacular waste of premium space as the USPS facility.

It would be a classic win-win scenario for the city to offer an economic incentive for Gillette to leave that plot of land - - and then sell the land to the highest bidding (and hopefully best plan) developer for a major project to truly accentuate the Channel as an iconic (yup - I said it!) urban space.

No one wants Gillette to up and leave the Greater Boston area and take their jobs with them.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

shmessy, if Guillette were to leave South Boston, it would likely be for another state. I think it is the investment in production equipment at that plant that keeps Gillette in S. Boston. Putting labor aside, the cost of electricity and Boston's tax rates would otherwise be an incentive for that production to be moved outside of Boston and outside of Massachusetts.

The Postal Service is another matter, they are tied to a facility somewhere in greater Boston with good access to transportation nodes.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

At some point that plant will need to be upgraded and I don't see Proctor and Gamble investing that kind of money at that location. That property would be worth a fortune if it was fully developed.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Hopefully it never gets to the point where P&G will have to move their Gillette operations out of this state. I would be in favor of giving tax incentives to keep them to stay.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Gillette should sell their parking lots and the land abutting A Street to a developer, with the stipulation they get spaces in one of the garages. P&G should pull their heads out of their asses and open up a "factory outlet" store facing channel center, as NB does. If marketed right it could be truly unique and make a killing.


I don't know why, but I love the low slung plant and want it to stay as long as it's an operating factory. The only thing I'd want is for the 'GILLETTE world shaving headquarters' sign to increase in size 100% and be put on a raised gantry. That would be fucking awesome.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

davem said:
Gillette should sell their parking lots and the land abutting A Street to a developer, with the stipulation they get spaces in one of the garages. P&G should pull their heads out of their asses and open up a "factory outlet" store facing channel center, as NB does. If marketed right it could be truly unique and make a killing.


I don't know why, but I love the low slung plant and want it to stay as long as it's an operating factory. The only thing I'd want is for the 'GILLETTE world shaving headquarters' sign to increase in size 100% and be put on a raised gantry. That would be fucking awesome.
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The physical plant is cool and the upgrades on Dorchester Ave circa 2009 are nice. But way too much of the space is surface lot. Davem's plan is a winner.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

stellarfun said:
shmessy, if Guillette were to leave South Boston, it would likely be for another state. I think it is the investment in production equipment at that plant that keeps Gillette in S. Boston. Putting labor aside, the cost of electricity and Boston's tax rates would otherwise be an incentive for that production to be moved outside of Boston and outside of Massachusetts.

The Postal Service is another matter, they are tied to a facility somewhere in greater Boston with good access to transportation nodes.
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Stellar, this is why I wrote that the city (or Commonwealth) should give Gillette economic incentives to move to Quincy or the Mystic River waterfront (for its plant water purposes). The greater tax revenue from higher and more dense development could cover that economic incentive cost within a few years.

Everyone should step back, take a moment and look at that location! Do you really want low slung landscrapers to dominate Fort Point Channel in the name of jobs? This ain't Alabama.

Anyone talking about Boston's potential for GDP growth and market competitiveness should see the rational in this. A 5-football field long landscraper at the apex of Fort Point Channel is a waste of premium space. Why not incentivize Gillette to move to a landscraper in a less spectacular area of Greater Boston? Why not have our cake and eat it too?

***P.S: Isn't it somewhat odd how many people in this thread are incensed about this 50+ story Congress Street development being cut 5%, yet at the same time are completely content with the low slung Gillette landscraper squatting on several acres of picture postcard ready Fort Point Channel waterfront?
 
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Re: Congress Street Garage Development

I think after Fan Pier and Seaport Sq this conversation will happen. no use in getting over the top for a productive use of land that is near an area still, despite developments, a lot of street parking.
 
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shmessy,

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A larger and newer Gillette plant than S. Boston.

Gillette closed a much smaller facility at Devens, and the production largely went to Mexico.

You start pushing a company like P&G into thinking about re-locating, and they, more likely than not, will move out of Massachusetts. There's a reason why manufacturing employment in Massachusetts has shrunk and shrunk.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

stellarfun said:
shmessy,

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A larger and newer Gillette plant than S. Boston.

Gillette closed a much smaller facility at Devens, and the production largely went to Mexico.

You start pushing a company like P&G into thinking about re-locating, and they, more likely than not, will move out of Massachusetts. There's a reason why manufacturing employment in Massachusetts has shrunk and shrunk.
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We should be targeting manufacturing for Lowell/Lawrence, Brockton, New Bedford, Billerica, etc. - - why can't the state simply up its manufacturing game there????? Why do you frame the question as "Boston or bust for heavy industry"?

I don't see foregoing a skyline around Fort Point Channel that could attract 2,000 residents and 2,000 high tech and service jobs because Alabama or Mexico may get some 2,500 manufacturing jobs from a company that is not headquartered in Boston anymore.

You DO realize it would not be just a loss, but a NET GAIN from what would be replacing the factory?

I would completely agree with you if someone was arguing to kick Gillette out in favor of an empty parking lot or a massive green space.

We are talking about the BEST and HIGHEST IMPACT use for the space - - If you have 8 Hank Aarons on your team, you don't choose the clean up spot to bat a 150 lb shortstop who hits .205. Fort Point Channel is a world class urban location that is largely being occupied by Route 495 type businesses.

I have no idea why some keep believing that leaving Boston automatically means leaving Massachusetts. I will repeat what I have written several times before: There are other places in Massachusetts that would be perfect for the Gillette plant - - Quincy waterfront - Mystic River waterfront - Framingham/Lake Cochituate, etc......If P+G yanks Gillette from the Commonwealth, it would be because of taxes/unions/utility costs - - not whether it is on Fort Point Channel or New Bedford Harbor.

Thank God, Congress Street is not being planned as a 7 acre shoe factory.
 
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shmessy, from what I deduce from what I read, Gillette South Boston is not a true manufacturing facility, it is more of a testbed for producing and evaluating new, advanced Gillette-branded products. Once the production kinks have been worked out, and the manufacturing process tweaked and optimized, production is shifted to other Gillette plants worldwide, and S. Boston goes on to testing the next, advanced product.

P&G calls it one of its two R&D centers for shaving. In essence, because R&D industrial production still tends to be horizontal, you have a landcsraper rather than a skyscraper.
I suspect the employees at S. Boston have a higher wage scale, justified by the R&D, then employees in the back office operations of a bank or financial services center.

The big problem with building new commercial office space in Boston is the absence of an identifiable tenant (i.e., corporation, business) who would gobble up the space. Law offices are shrinking, not expanding. The financial services center is not growing, employment wise. And much of the entrepreneurial tech that may have started in Boston/Cambridge migrates to northern California. Boston does not have Jeff Bezos building a new headquarters for 15,000 Amazon employees in downtown Seattle.

jp-SEATTLE-1-articleLarge.jpg


Amazon's new complex ^^^
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/u...downtown-is-reshaped.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

stellarfun said:
The big problem with building new commercial office space in Boston is the absence of an identifiable tenant (i.e., corporation, business) who would gobble up the space. Law offices are shrinking, not expanding. The financial services center is not growing, employment wise. And much of the entrepreneurial tech that may have started in Boston/Cambridge migrates to northern California. Boston does not have Jeff Bezos building a new headquarters for 15,000 Amazon employees in downtown Seattle.

jp-SEATTLE-1-articleLarge.jpg


Amazon's new complex ^^^
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/08/26/u...downtown-is-reshaped.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
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1) Why would we want to be a one company/industry town like Seattle or Hartford? Between Law, Finance, Biotech, Education, Medical, Government, there is plenty to build on.

2) Your supposition is that this would be 100% commercial. I clearly wrote that residential (where demand is red hot - - and will be for the foreseeable future due to demographics, i.e. empty nesters wanting downsized and more urban lifestyles) would be at least 50% of this. All one has to do is to look around at what is getting built today in Boston........ Now consider for a moment: the US Baby Boom was from 1946-1964 and hit its zenith in the mid-1950s. Those that are turning 65 years old this year are at the tip of that iceberg.

3) - not to mention a hotel or two wanting an iconic location on water in Boston.
 
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Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Not to derail the thread, but you can't just throw Seattle and Hartford in the same sentence like that as one horse towns.
 
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choo said:
Not to derail the thread, but you can't just throw Seattle and Hartford in the same sentence like that as one horse towns.
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Agreed. However the article points out that there will be 30,000 Amazon workers in a city (counting retirees and children) of 635,000. When we talk one industry - - the numbers become even more dominant.

****Stellar, I PM'ed you some more thoughts on that Seattle/Amazon story and how it could relate to Boston. - - I just don't want to continue to derail a thread that I'm afraid I've already derailed too much.

With regard to the Congress Street development, I am thrilled that long, low slung, automobile dependent downtown behemoths are being replaced by 50+ story buildings that include more residential components. Anyone can draw their own conclusions about other areas of Boston where this would be a positive.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Seattle has a solid economy and one that handled the recession pretty well. It also happens to be a great city.


Say what you want, but I am in favor of doing a lot to keep Gillette in their South Boston facility. If that means tax benefits then so be it. Gillette is an iconic brand with solid roots in this area.
 
Re: Congress Street Garage Development

Oh this thread derailed long ago.
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That's as much my fault as anyone else's, for initiating a discussion of Gillette. Is there a moderator here who can move all of those posts to a new thread?
 
Don't mean to get anyone's hopes up as there are no real proposals to do this. Just had to move this conversation. But, hey, if it ever comes up now we have a place holder for it.
 
Seattle's skyline continues to evolve and get better. I'd put it in the top 5 of this country easily.
 
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