Medians, Railroads, and Utilities

[BostonUrbEx]

I'm just curious, I see vast swaths cut out for power lines, occasionally even a natural gas pipeline, and I just have to wonder why aren't these placed in highway medians? Is it considered too "dangerous" and risky? I mean, why not have I-95 flanking a rail corridor with high tension power lines strung above?

 

[Equilibria]

I am by no means an expert, but I think this is mostly because different entities, both public and private, plan, build and operate these different facilities. In the case of power and gas lines, for example, the utility owns the land over which they travel.

This ceases to be true in more urban areas, where utilities follow the road network. The trunk lines out in the boonies, however, are too important and too dangerous to be out of the utility's control. Not to mention that repair/maintenance requires access below/above basically any point of the line without disrupting traffic.

There have been plenty of efforts to co-locate railway and highway facilities. The Texas Transportation Corridor between San Antonio and Dallas along I-35 comes to mind.

 

[Ron Newman]

I've sometimes wondered why the power line rights-of-way aren't co-used as hiking or bicycle trails.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

I remember as a kid in upstate NY they built a fiber optic network along the NY State Thruway along the median.

 

[JohnCostello]

1. Level 3 Communications has a major cable going the length of the MassPike. It was put in 1999/2000. The former rail line that snakes up through Everett and Malden to Lynn has some kind of communications or gas line under it.

2. How many times does the power go out in certain areas go out because somebody forgot to call DigSafe? You want to shut down I-95 for days because a 115kv line went out? Or power is out because some jackarse cut off a tanker truck and the ensuing fire melted a line tower? Texas is great to work on a project like this. They don't have 200' right of ways like we do here. You can do anything with open scrub land. Have a ROW 1000' feet wide, you can do a lot.

Location, Location, Location. The Algonquin pipeline was laid out during WWII out of wartime industrial requirments and celerity. Killing Germans and Japanese was a wee more important than future land planning needs at the time. The line was also placed far enough inland away from potential saboteurs but with enough branch lines to serve the important cities and towns along the route. Kinda silly to get Bridgeport blown to bits about 1943 and lose the gas feed to Worcester, right?

Also, Edison and the gas company do not want you on their right of ways. Too much liability if little Jimmy decides to climb a pole and get fried.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

A lot of these power line ROW's pre-date the interstates in this part of the country, and have been renewed several times over since they went in. You're far more likely to see one piggyback on or near a railroad RR than a highway. For one, because when the RR's were declining in the second half of the 20th century they were dangling cheap land to the power companies as a revenue lifeboat. If you drive in Texas, by contrast, the high-tension lines are much more often laid out next to the highways. But not directly on top of the median...they're usually a safe hundred-plus feet off to the side, with an embankment built between the towers and the highway + collector roads. Those parts of the country having absurdly wide interstate carriageways makes that easier to do.

Also have to figure the patterns of population density into it. Here they have to zigzag around areas of high suburban density that pre-exist the power lines, whereas in the west the more orderly alignment of roads + power lines came first and brought the density in tow. They have to take odd, non-straight paths here through forests, swamps, abandoned farmland turned woods, and up steep hills and mountains to avoid towering over dense settlement. Pretty stark on Google Maps satellite view. Most patches of green tagged with "Swamp" or "State Forest" are bisected by power lines that turn at odd angles to snake around neighborhoods. They're one of the few pieces of major infrastructure that has minimal enough environmental impact to be pretty easy to do on protected land.

 

[whighlander]

Much of the really BIG Electric Power infrastucture involves interconnecting major power plants with side branches to the load centers (city cores and dense industrial / commercial suburbs such as Burlington or Waltham)

Many of the major power plants such as the Nukes and a lot of modern Coal plants are located away from the major cities

By comparison the interstates basically connect population centers --Hence there is no obvious reason that hghways and electric lines would likey overlap except in the inner cores where a lot of the wires go underground

Much more common is big underground water pipes folowing highways

 

[JohnAKeith]

Where my family lived in Topsfield, there was an old abandoned railroad bed that went behind our house. There was a 1/4 acre of trees between our yard and the bed, and it was down in a ditch. It went all the way north to Newburyport or somewhere, I have no idea. My father and I walked it a couple times and it went on forever (at least, it felt that way to a 10-year old).

They talked on and off about paving it, turning it into a bike path.

Dear god, you'd think they had suggested turning it into a raceway, based on my father's negative response. In no uncertain terms did he want that to happen. He was sure there would be motorbikes going non-stop up and down there, day and night.

Was true, on occasion we'd hear the bikes on the dirt path (which they cleared every once in awhile).

I never understood his absolute opposition to anything, anytime, anywhere.

 

[whighlander]

JK -- you sshould have heard the internecince warfare when the Minuteman Bike trail was being proposed:

1) Bike commute and some pedestrians who wanted to be able to travel from Lexington to Alewife with few grade crossings

2) transit enthusiasts who were convinced that by pulling up the old Fitchburg Div Lexington-Branch Rails that the Red Line extension to Rt-128 would be dead and burried once and for all

3) rail people who wanted the Lexington Branch service restored

4) MWRA that wanted to run a major sewer down the right of way

so the agrement was to lease it to the Bikeway operator with the MBTA retaining ownership and the MWRA having access to install the sewer pipe

Today the Minuteman Bikway is mostly used for recreational biking,walking and dog walking with some cross country skiers taking it on in the winter

 

[Ron Newman]

Arlington and Lexington have begun clearing it of snow during the winter. Walkers and I guess a few hardy cyclists have a bigger lobby than x-country skiers, it appears.

 

[whighlander]

Yes, although the clearing often leaves some peripheral pavement covered with snow and in addition the heavy vegetation is usually cut back to allow snowshoe /skiing on the border soil/grass

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Where my family lived in Topsfield, there was an old abandoned railroad bed that went behind our house. There was a 1/4 acre of trees between our yard and the bed, and it was down in a ditch. It went all the way north to Newburyport or somewhere, I have no idea. My father and I walked it a couple times and it went on forever (at least, it felt that way to a 10-year old).

They talked on and off about paving it, turning it into a bike path.

Dear god, you'd think they had suggested turning it into a raceway, based on my father's negative response. In no uncertain terms did he want that to happen. He was sure there would be motorbikes going non-stop up and down there, day and night.

Was true, on occasion we'd hear the bikes on the dirt path (which they cleared every once in awhile).

I never understood his absolute opposition to anything, anytime, anywhere.

Yes...that's part of the East Coast Greenway. Former Newburyport Branch, which had commuter rail service to Topsfield until just a couple years before the T. The northern half of it ties into the Eastern Route exactly where current Newburyport station is, and it's very well-preserved the whole length. That's a high-priority trail because of the national funding elegible for it as a Greenway branch. Second-most to the Bruce Freeman Trail. Probably why it's a little more contentious than most...high-profile and has a lot more cooks trying to stir the pot.

For what it's worth I think this is one of a small handful of really beneficial trail initiatives in the state. Covers a lot of distance through good recreational land, and there's little projected deep long-term need for rail service because of it going through the sparsest stretch of population density inside the 495 belt.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Arlington and Lexington have begun clearing it of snow during the winter. Walkers and I guess a few hardy cyclists have a bigger lobby than x-country skiers, it appears.

Minuteman's a true commuter line. It's almost faster to walk from Alewife to get to Arlington Ctr. than to take the 77 or 79 some days, and it's extremely convenient for getting between Arlington Ctr. and Arlington Heights or fanning out from Lexington Ctr. There'd be a full-on revolt if it weren't plowed from Alewife to at least Lake St. if not all the way to AC with all the rush hour commuters that use it. It might even merit installing lighting to Lake St. because of sheer volume of evening rush commuters using it in winter after dark.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Minuteman's a true commuter line. It's almost faster to walk from Alewife to get to Arlington Ctr. than to take the 77 or 79 some days, and it's extremely convenient for getting between Arlington Ctr. and Arlington Heights or fanning out from Lexington Ctr. There'd be a full-on revolt if it weren't plowed from Alewife to at least Lake St. if not all the way to AC with all the rush hour commuters that use it. It might even merit installing lighting to Lake St. because of sheer volume of evening rush commuters using it in winter after dark.

The line went close to my house when I lived in ATown and I used it like a limited access bike highway; it was awesome.

 

[jass]

It really should have lights.

 

[JonFrum]

I'm just curious, I see vast swaths cut out for power lines, occasionally even a natural gas pipeline, and I just have to wonder why aren't these placed in highway medians? Is it considered too "dangerous" and risky? I mean, why not have I-95 flanking a rail corridor with high tension power lines strung above?

Because we didnt' start from scratch yesterday.

 

[Ron Newman]

I believe not having lights was part of the agreement made with abutters back when the Minuteman trail was built. Cambridge and Somerville have insisted on lights on their paths.

 

[whighlander]

I believe not having lights was part of the agreement made with abutters back when the Minuteman trail was built. Cambridge and Somerville have insisted on lights on their paths.

By far most people in Lexington with the MMBT in their backyard didn't want it period -- any serious attempt to make it a lighted thoroughfare would have provoked another April 19 event


The bigggest negative of the MMBT -- is that more bkes use Mass Ave by far than the MMBT even though it is practically adjacent --- ironically the main reason is that on the weekend the bike riders like to pretend its the Tour de France and they are part of the peloton --- getting ready to challenge for the yelllow jersey

 

[Kahta]

I'm just curious, I see vast swaths cut out for power lines, occasionally even a natural gas pipeline, and I just have to wonder why aren't these placed in highway medians? Is it considered too "dangerous" and risky? I mean, why not have I-95 flanking a rail corridor with high tension power lines strung above?

Power lines need to have a certain amount of space between the wire and touching the ground, so oftentimes they were built along rough terrain because putting the poles at the tops of hills within the terrain meant less poles between the hilltops.

For example, look at this area and then look at where the power lines run though in the satellite map.