Portland Transportation Center

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Commuting Boston Student

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Seems like the Portland Transportation Center is in a very awkward location, both in light of the impending extension to Brunswick (which will require a reverse move due to the station's location) and just in terms of general connectivity to Portland itself - hardly something I would describe as walkable to downtown.

Why was the Portland Transportation Center put where it is, and is it too late for it to be moved? The Metro Garage at St. John Street looks to be worlds better as a location just for being on the right side of both 295 and the track split, and would probably improve walkability tremendously.
 
Even without considering the northward extension of the Amtrak Downeaster, the current PTC is indeed in an awkward location. As this article from a couple years ago in The Bollard says:

Visitors arriving this summer by bus or train at the new Portland Transportation Center can peruse colorful brochures touting The Forest City’s walkable streets, unique business districts, and livable neighborhoods. Once outside, these travelers must wonder if they got off at the wrong stop.
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I think we would all love to see the station closer to downtown, but practically speaking it sounds like it's not going to go anywhere. Check out this thread for some previous discussions about alternative locations. The location of the old Union Station on St. John Street would have worked well, I think, but the stip mall that is there now will probably be with us for eternity. I assume the current transportation center was built where it is because the land was available at a good price and it was alongside existing tracks. So the current challenge is better connecting it to the rest of the city. The development of Thompson's Point, directly behind the transportation center, should help drive demand for better mass transit and walkability to and from the station, I hope.
 
Corey said:
I think we would all love to see the station closer to downtown, but practically speaking it sounds like it's not going to go anywhere. Check out this thread for some previous discussions about alternative locations. The location of the old Union Station on St. John Street would have worked well, I think, but the stip mall that is there now will probably be with us for eternity. I assume the current transportation center was built where it is because the land was available at a good price and it was alongside existing tracks. So the current challenge is better connecting it to the rest of the city. The development of Thompson's Point, directly behind the transportation center, should help drive demand for better mass transit and walkability to and from the station, I hope.
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I feel like the Strip Mall and the Rail Station could coexist, though - depending on what businesses are in the strip mall now. As long as there's nothing that isn't family friendly, it should be fine. I could absolutely see a grocery store or a hobby shop or things of that nature operating out of a train station.

Really, what I'd like to see is a Kingston, RI-style set up with the train station moving in with the museum and sharing a building, but it doesn't look like the ROW along Commercial Street is entirely intact enough for there to be any hope of connecting it, and that's really the only location that could be conceivably called 'Downtown Portland.'
 
First post - been a lurker since before the recession - signed up to write a rather long winded defense of Westbrook, then thought better of it as a first post (I will get to it at some point, in installments, though).

The lack of a connection between commercial St and rail has been one of my pet peeves for a while, both as a user of public transit and supporter of the whole multi-modal idea with transit centers.

A question I've always had, which Commuting's question touches tangentially, and that I'm sure someone on this site has a far more concise and accurate response to than 3 hours of googling will get me--- has the idea of a light rail option, along the lines of Newark's AirTrain ever been floated - connecting the Maine State Pier, along Commercial to Thompson's Point, then across parallel to 295 to the Jetport. All in all the route would be about 4 miles - slightly longer than the airtrain in Newark, but would link air/ land/ and sea public transit with each other and with the Old Port. It may not be a true multi-modal center, but would be a legitimate compromise to starting anew. It would also help to service Thompson's point as it evolves into a destination when the stadium project is eventually completed.

And lest I go down in memory as the guy who's first post said "monorail", I'm using airtrain as a distance and concept comparison, not proposing lifting the idea in total.
 
Portland Regional Transit Ideas
-Downeaster Extension to Augusta
-Light Rail / Commuter Rail Hybrid - Lewiston - Westbrook via Portland Waterfront
-Train Service would run every 10 mins during rush hr and 25 mins off peak
-Portland Streetcar lines to service , Downtown Portland , South Portland , Back Cove , North Deering , Deering Center ,Riverton , Nason's Corner , Rosement , East End , West End and Portland International Airport
-Union Station Transit Center
-Riverton & Yarmouth , Downeaster Stations
-Downeaster Service Boosted to 25 roundtrips a day

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.0004ca64ec52d3bf5989a&msa=0&ll=43.650733,-70.254135&spn=0.16768,0.41851
 
Welcome, Davepacz! I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the city of Westbrook. Nice to have another user of public transportation on the board.

I think the idea of connecting the Transportation Center/Jetport/and Downtown via rail is something that we have discussed before. From my limited understanding of the Thompson's Point development, I remember something about the possibility of having some additional funds for a new Metro bus line connecting the Point and the transportation center to downtown. For what it's worth there was an agenda item from the last Transportation, Sustainability and Energy Committee meeting regarding the creation of a task force to study the feasibility of streetcars. I imagine that route is one that they would be looking at.

Nexis4jersey - Nice work with the map! I hope I may live long enough to see all those improvements happen.
 
"First post - been a lurker since before the recession - signed up to write a rather long winded defense of Westbrook, then thought better of it as a first post (I will get to it at some point, in installments, though). "

If that's gonna be geared towards my comments, remember it wasn't aimed at the people of Westbrook who I said were great down to earth people, but the actual main corridor of the city. If you let your whole main street, which is main street, to become basically Portland's cumberland ave.....then you will have an impossible time trying to be a real downtown or a city center which they don't have. I mean seriously, where is the pinpoint downtown of the brook....the intersection of CVS and Portland Pie? That's pretty weak.

You are going to have to either have somebody with a boatload of money make a huge investment on Main or you're going to have to find a way to clean out all the bad apartments one by one. I don't see either of those happening in the next 25 years.

The transportation is in one of the worst possible locations in the city.....now. They only people you see walking that stretch of congress downtown are Sea Dogs players going to practice or drunks. Thompson's point will be huge down there, giving a wastleland life and giving people before and after somewhere to go. At least there will be a restaurant.

The problem with the rail heading from there intown is that it stops too short of the old port. Not sure if people would want to walk that far in.
 
Just came upon this photo from 1900 on the Portland Maine History facebook page. I don't remember seeing a photo of Union Station from this angle before, I didn't realize that there were buildings across the street before. I would be happy if something like this were re-created in the same spot. But of course you'd have to deal with the parking needs and all the existing property owners.

282280_418439528220479_1875060579_n.jpg
 
Corey said:
Just came upon this photo from 1900 on the Portland Maine History facebook page. I don't remember seeing a photo of Union Station from this angle before, I didn't realize that there were buildings across the street before. I would be happy if something like this were re-created in the same spot. But of course you'd have to deal with the parking needs and all the existing property owners.

282280_418439528220479_1875060579_n.jpg
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Very Cool! Here's almost the same exact view from an article I wrote earlier this year. Would like to see the parking dealt with by placing it behind the buildings at the very least, instead of in front of them.

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Nexis4jersey said:
Added some more things , tell me what you think...

https://maps.google.com/maps/ms?msid=215312482559953359515.0004ca64ec52d3bf5989a&msa=0&ll=43.645765,-70.285034&spn=0.167694,0.41851
Click to expand...

I like your idea of running a line into Downtown Gorham. I think that's the only way to make a western suburb commuter line work. Trying to run something solely along the Mountain Division line up into Standish takes it away from the core of the western suburb population.

Oddly enough, there used to be a rail line running from Downtown Westbrook through Downtown Gorham and beyond (Sanford, Rochester, etc.) It was the Worcester, Nashua and Portland Division that become the Sanford and Eastern Railroad line that was in operation until the 1960's. Some of the tracks remain today along William Clarke Drive in Westbrook (which was built along the railroad right-of-way). The Sebago Brewing Co. restaurant in Gorham is the old train station on this line for Downtown Gorham. I just tried to find the right-of-way on Google Maps (obviously much of it is overgrown now) and it looks like it wouldn't be re-buildable.

The following was part of the feedback that I sent to the Gorham East-West Corridor Feasibility Study a couple years ago withn my suggestions for stations/platforms along this potential commuter line:

Station/Platform #1 – Portland Transportation Center

This idea is a pretty obvious one. The station, platform and parking lot are already in existence.

Station/Platform #2 – Westbrook Larrabee Road/Blue Rock

A station at this location would provide: (a) easy access to I-95; (b) easy access to Rt. 25 and the Westbrook Arterial; (c) ample room for a large commuter parking lot; and (d) the lease impact on residents, businesses and traffic around the station/platform. Pike will be abandoning this property and selling it soon, so it would be wise for the PACTS to consider negotiating an option to buy the land on the southern end of the property near and along the Mountain Division line.

Below is a Google Maps link to this location:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.672086,-70.333512&spn=0.002918,0.006958&t=h&z=18

Station/Platform #3 – Westbrook Downtown/Warren League Grounds

There is an obvious need to place a station or platform in Downtown Westbrook, but where would you put one? Well, my idea is to use the current baseball field known as the Warren League Grounds at the end of the short Stevens Avenue in Westbrook. This field was for years the home of Westbrook’s high school baseball teams, as well as Westbrook’s Senior Little League/Babe Ruth League. However, with the completion of the new fields at Westbrook High School and proposal for another field at the new Westbrook Middle School, the need to maintain Warren Leagues Grounds as a baseball field no longer exists. This field could easily be turned into a parking lot or even a two-level parking garage, with a walkway, steps, escalators and/or elevators leading up to a platform along the railroad tracks just east of the “Black Bridge.”

This location, along with a reconfiguration of the intersection of Main Street, Stevens Avenue and the Westbrook arterial, would provide direct access to the Westbrook Arterial (and thus I-95) and Rt. 25. It would also limit the impact on residents and business in other parts of downtown by building the station/platform in a somewhat blighted area.

Below is a Google Maps link to this location:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.680687,-70.354729&spn=0.002917,0.006958&t=h&z=18

Station #4 – Little Falls/South Windham/River Road

While a station or platform directly in the “downtown” area of Little Falls/South Windham would greatly benefit that area in terms of potential growth among business in that “downtown” area, there is no room for a sizable commuter parking lot. However, just west and north of South Windham along the Mountain Division line and accessible from River Road is a patch of undeveloped land along the power lines. A sizable commuter lot and station/platform could be constructed is this location with little-to-no impact on area residents.

Below is a Google Maps link to this location:

http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&ie=UTF8&ll=43.746212,-70.431494&spn=0.005828,0.013915&t=h&z=17
 
All great ideas, but the frustrating part is that the ease of suggestions in a vacuum is greater than that of suggesting/proposing something within the political and funding constraints that exist at every turn in the actual policy realm where decisions occur. I don't mean that your ideas wouldn't work or shouldn't be pursued, just that there are so many hurdles to getting everyone to say "yeah, this meets my checklist for what I have to accomplish in my particular job/role, so let's do it." I think this stems from a lack of regional coordination and pursuit of individual interests at the macro scale, a subject coincidentally discussed a little more in depth in today's Herald with respect to bus. http://www.pressherald.com/news/better-bus-services_-an-effort-is-underway_2012-10-08.html

My thought it that, for transit, bus is the smart move, but if we want to use transit for more than people-moving, and stimulate economic development at transit stops, rail is the better approach. Of course, if both were equally feasible, I'd choose rail, because it's more fun of an idea or concept, and bus is less glitzy for some reason, but I think the only way we can invest in the more expensive and upfront cost of rail is if we are very clear about the fact that the reason we are doing so relates more to a clear economic development plan and not just to getting from point a to b. Just my thoughts! Thanks for your ideas and the further discussion I assume this post will stir.
 
Changed it again...

The Mainer
Length : 97 Miles
Projected Ridership : 36,000
Stations : 18
Estimated Cost : 560 Million $
Electric Tram Trains
Top Speed : 85mph

Downeaster Express
Length : 251 Miles
Projected Ridership : 9,600
Stations : 16
Estimated Cost of Extensions : 250 Million
Diesel Multiple Unit
Top Speed : 100mph
 
Nexis4jersey said:
Changed it again...

The Mainer
Length : 97 Miles
Projected Ridership : 36,000
Stations : 18
Estimated Cost : 560 Million $
Electric Tram Trains
Top Speed : 85mph

Downeaster Express
Length : 251 Miles
Projected Ridership : 9,600
Stations : 16
Estimated Cost of Extensions : 250 Million
Diesel Multiple Unit
Top Speed : 100mph
Click to expand...

An organization some might be interested in is the Maine Rail Transit Coalition, which champions the use of DMUs and is currently engaged in a study of rail transit oriented development between Auburn and Portland, funded through a grant from the National Association of Realtors. The point of the study is to move beyond the policy level and show exactly how much such a line would be to operate and what the anticipated benefits could be so that policy makers have information on which to base sound decisions.
 
I think a Rail Network and better options would curve and lower the Obesity rates in Maine which are the highest in New England....

obesitybycountylarge.png
 
Dr. StrangeHat said:
Station/Platform #3 – Westbrook Downtown/Warren League Grounds

There is an obvious need to place a station or platform in Downtown Westbrook, but where would you put one? Well, my idea is to use the current baseball field known as the Warren League Grounds at the end of the short Stevens Avenue in Westbrook. This field was for years the home of Westbrook’s high school baseball teams, as well as Westbrook’s Senior Little League/Babe Ruth League. However, with the completion of the new fields at Westbrook High School and proposal for another field at the new Westbrook Middle School, the need to maintain Warren Leagues Grounds as a baseball field no longer exists. This field could easily be turned into a parking lot or even a two-level parking garage, with a walkway, steps, escalators and/or elevators leading up to a platform along the railroad tracks just east of the “Black Bridge.”

This location, along with a reconfiguration of the intersection of Main Street, Stevens Avenue and the Westbrook arterial, would provide direct access to the Westbrook Arterial (and thus I-95) and Rt. 25. It would also limit the impact on residents and business in other parts of downtown by building the station/platform in a somewhat blighted area.
Click to expand...
I don't know about this location for a train station/platform. It was considered for the site for the new police station a few years ago, and it was stated that due to its' proximity to the river, that flooding could easily occur. So the site was removed from consideration. But, that was then, this is now.
 
The land behind the stockhouse is for sale - would be before the branches that used to lead to Gorham and Portland via Forest (Downeaster Brunswick line), right about across the tracks from where the old station used to be. The line to Portland/ Forest ave. is unlikely as it would likely require some severely heavy handed eminent domain, but Gorham is not out of the realm of possibility someday.

Personally I'd love to see Rent-A-Center bulldozed, and make that lot the train station. (Don's Lunch keeps a spot on the lot as a nod to history)
 
Dr. StrangeHat said:
There were/are plans to build a wye track (in this general vicinity: http://maps.google.com/?ll=43.651828,-70.283071&spn=0.00569,0.009055&t=h&z=17), hence why there is an overpass there on the Fore River Parkway. This would eliminate the need for a reverse move. Not sure where those plans currently stand, though.
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As far as I can tell, these aren't going forward - I'd guess because the reverse move that happens at Portland is actually a double-reverse, costs about 10 minutes on the schedule, and the train ends up pointed the right way at the end of it (eliminating the need for a cab car on the back of the train.) Completing that wye would eliminate the first reverse, but not the second one - and in a way, that creates a worse situation than the one we've got now - as the crew would need to completely change ends, redo the brake test, and most of the seats on the train end up facing backwards. Not at all worth the 3 to 5 minutes saved.

Well, a double-reverse is still complex and a not that great situation to be in, so I sat down and looked at alternatives... and, really, they all suck.
  • There's a mostly-intact ROW that would bring trains 3 miles and change down-line on the corridor to Montreal, then turn out just before Main Street and travel another ~3 miles back to the main line. This ROW is mostly intact, but also lousy with grade crossings and almost completely single-track. Double-tracking would be essential, and the turnout track is bounded on both sides by nasty potential grade crossings that would need to be blown up if the stated goal of no reverse moves is to be achieved.
  • Abandoning PTC and rebuilding Portland Union Station is, somehow, likely a more expensive an option than the turnout detour, thanks to losing Concord Coach Lines as a partner to split the rent with. Parking requirements are an unfortunate reality besides, and a garage on Saint's John Street is much less attractive than a garage in the middle of nowhere (ie Thompson's Point).
  • As previously mentioned, completing the wye solves one reverse move but makes the other worse. If you're willing to throw Freeport and Brunswick under the bus, however, you could cut the Downeaster back to Portland and implement some other service to cover Portland - Brunswick - Bangor(?) services.
Man, you know you're in an awful situation where "doing nothing and sticking with the bad situation we've got now" is potentially the best option.

...

Although, if you're like me and particularly proactive with advocacy for blazing a path where none exists - the biggest obstacles to the 6-mile detour after the grade separations are such upstanding establishments as McDonald's and Weekend Anime, so maybe that option's worth a second look...

edit: Here's the second look. Casualties of this hypothetical ROW include a parking lot that it would have to run through, an industrial site that gets bisected (could be bought off with freight interests, maybe?), and that McDonald's.
 
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Why not bypass downtown Westbrook and Morrill's corner both, and just use the Maine Turnpike right-of-way to meet up with the mainline up in Riverton near the Presumpscot River?
 
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