Random Questions on Various Things

[BostonUrbEx]

How long should bus cutouts be, and how deep?


How wide should sidewalks be? With tree squares/planter boxes?


When you have mixed use for that small town downtown village style, you may only have two or three floors. Lets say you have real estate or law offices on the 2nd floor, would that require an elevator? Or is ADA for retail and civic only?

 

[Patrick]

speaking just generally from my personal thought--the width of sidewalks (or rather what they should be) depends on the goal in mind. If, as I suspect, it is a pedestrian friendly environment, urban designers have looked at this issue for a long time, and have some pretty specific metrics that they've thought of. A lot of the ratios of building height to street width are spelled out in the book Great Streets by Alan Jacobs, which probably (although I can't remember) speak to sidewalk width as well. But, remember, context may change these general guidelines. Typically, the narrowest a sidewalk in an urbanized area should be is 4 feet wide, but this is for infrequently traveled streets. more general size is about 10 feet wide, but many larger cities or busier main streets in smaller cities use widths much wider than this. As for tree planters, this obviously can get in the way. What you want to keep in mind is that the tree planted is of the right species to not grow right in peoples' way when they walk, and to make sure that they are not placed right in front of doorways. Also, don't plant trees that are too big. Or too small. It is an art, not a science. There are also certain specifications about what sort of soil and how much room trees need to sustain in urban areas, and this may enter into the space requirements depending on the design of their placement. I recommend looking at Great Streets for more information, and as for the ADA stuff, I don't know off the top of my head, but I think the requirements are different for new construction as opposed to alterations. and by a bus cutout, you mean? The area where the curb bumps out and they pull into on the sidewalk? That is a good question, and one I don't think I've ever heard discussed before.

 

[jass]

Bus cutout length depends on location. Midblock, before intersection or after intersection.

Or none, because a cutout forces transit riders off to the side, as 2nd class citizens.

The narrowest sidewalk is set by ADA law, I dont remember the exact amount.

10 feet is a more respectable amount.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Thanks for the responses. And I'll have to check out that book Great Streets, thanks Patrick!

By cutout I mean a bus turnout or bus bay, yes. How does this make bus riders a 2nd class citizen, though? Let's say there's a bike lane, would an abrupt bus bulb jutting out be very wise? Unless the bikes lane ramps up to sidewalk level are made, but I feel that's so much more complicated and puts the bus riders boarding/alighting at risk. It definitely makes it easier to add a bus shelter, though, without blocking up so much sidewalk.

 

[BostonUrbEx]

Also; for the ADA stuff, I do mean for new construction. Who wants to pursue this mixed use smart growth in suburban downtowns if you need an elevator for every 2nd story business.

 

[Patrick]

Again, I am no expert in ADA, but I think from a brief scouring of the internet new construction of three stories and under (or perhaps up to two but not including three stories) does not need an elevator if it is under a certain square footage per floor. This allows traditional urbanism of a village scale, and for anything bigger the elevator requirements probably wouldn't be cost prohibitive. Also, anything three stories tall and taller would probably want an elevator just because people don't like climbing 4 stories, even if they are not disabled. We were at the Empire State building the other day, and the elevator went to the 80 floor. Then there was a 30 minute wait for the elevator to the 86th floor observation deck. Or you could choose to walk the 6 flights of stairs and skip the line. About half chose to take the stairs, and the other half chose instead to wait another minutes. By the time we got to the top, everyone was winded. I think that's the reason you often see most walk ups at only 4-6 stories in height (traditional urbanism, pre-elevator high-rise). Only after the elevator was invented did we start to see high rise construction, because people just don't like climbing up stairs. This leads me to think most buildings would install an elevator at or near the height the ADA would begin to require them, so if the ADA has an anti-urban effect in this regard it is probably a very small one. But again, I could be wrong and you raise a very good question.