Scenes from the recession

[vanshnookenraggen]

These were originally from this Boston Globe piece. I'm just posting a few interesting ones.

Storm clouds hover near unfinished home lots during a break between storms after the dwindling new home sales market brought construction to a halt at a new home development December 16, 2008 in Rancho Cucamonga, California. Home construction took its biggest dive in 24 years in November to reach a record low. (David McNew/Getty Images)

A stopped construction site is seen behind an older two-family house occupied by only one family in Almaty, Kazakhstan on March 4, 2009. (REUTERS/Shamil Zhumatov)

The Magen Abraham Synagogue sits at center of this photograph taken on Wednesday, Nov. 12, 2008, surrounded by the gleaming new skyscrapers in Wadi Abou Jmil, Lebanon - formerly Beirut's main Jewish neighborhood. One of Lebanon's sole remaining synagogues, this building was set for a restoration that has the rare blessing of all the factions in this divided country - but the global financial crisis has scuttled the effort for now, leaving the Magen Abraham chained, padlocked, badly damaged and overgrown with weeds. (AP Photo/Grace Kassab)

As new home sales and housing starts hit record lows, empty lots, partially constructed homes and abandoned ones are seen in a subdivision on January 30, 2009 near Homestead, Florida. Prices in November of 2008 declined 8.7 percent from a year earlier, the biggest drop in records going back to 1991, the Federal Housing Finance Agency reported. (Joe Raedle/Getty Images)

Thousands of unemployed Chinese graduates flock to a job fair in Wuhan, central China's Hubei province on March 7, 2009. China vowed to help train one million graduates in the next three years to boost their qualifications, and promised loans to business that hire graduates, as unemployment continues to grow. (STR/AFP/Getty Images)

Dodge SUVs sit parked in the Atlantic Marine Terminal at the port of Baltimore February 18, 2009 in Baltimore, Maryland. As the worldwide economic downturn persists and automobile sales continue to slow, more than 57,000 new automobiles sit idle in the port of Maryland. The state of Maryland recently paid $5.26 million for almost 15 acres of additional car storage space near the port, freeing space for more cargo. (Chip Somodevilla/Getty Images)

A general view shows a halted construction of a highway called "Lulin" near capital Sofia, bulgaria November 26, 2008. The highway is facing serious delay due to lack of funding, according to local media. (OLEG POPOV/Reuters)

People walk in a residential district dotted with unfinished apartment buildings in Kiev December 24, 2008. Dozens of unfinished buildings populate the Kiev skyline, their abandoned hulks embodying the damage that the world's financial crisis has inflicted on Ukraine. (REUTERS/Gleb Garanich)

Construction is stopped on the Seneca Casino in Buffalo, N.Y., Monday, Nov. 24, 2008. With the state a signature away from collecting tax from tribal cigarette sales and a mega casino project mothballed because of economic and legal challenges, even by a former warrior nation's standards there are tough battles ahead. (AP Photo/David Duprey)

My fav:

Unused freight containers are seen piled up at storage depots near a residential area in northwest Hong Kong February 18, 2009. China's hopes for a speedy export recovery from the global crisis could be undermined by the weakest links in its powerful supply chain - smaller firms too damaged by the downturn and credit crisis to get goods to market. (REUTERS/Bobby Yip)

 

[Suffolk 83]

The good thing about the recession is China gets hurt... Am I wrong to think that? Should you cut your nose to spite your face? Is it wrong to root for your own country and not wish yours gets overtaken by a country with 10 trillion ppl?

They destroy old, 30 story buildings by building bamboo scaffolding and beating it to death, literally by hand.... But I watch cops do nothing on detail in Massachusetts and make 70 bucks an hour.... which is worse?

 

[KentXie]

The good thing about the recession is China gets hurt... Am I wrong to think that? Should you cut your nose to spite your face? Is it wrong to root for your own country and not wish yours gets overtaken by a country with 10 trillion ppl?

They destroy old, 30 story buildings by building bamboo scaffolding and beating it to death, literally by hand.... But I watch cops do nothing on detail in Massachusetts and make 70 bucks an hour.... which is worse?

No not really. But most of the time, this is fueled by jealousy so I don't know if it is a good thing or a bad thing.

I don't get this part. Many of the Chinese buildings that are often demolished for new residential high-rises are built with crappy and shoddy materials that are a fire hazards to the city. Many of these are crumbling in condition and have no historical value to be saved. Plus, unlike most cities around the world, many of the Chinese city literally have no land to build on and are force to build on top of older buildings in order to house the population. So....I guess the cops are worse. But then again, I heard in the news that the cops on details are often never paid by the people who hired them or that their payments gets delayed by months....

 

[Lurker]

Many of the Chinese buildings that are often demolished for new residential high-rises are built with crappy and shoddy materials that are a fire hazards to the city.

Many of the new hi-rises are built with the same crappy materials that are fire hazards to the city. If there is ever a large nation wide earthquake many of those buildings are going to come crashing down.

The Chinese have the manpower, willpower, and brainpower to build, but the infrastructural and non corrupt regulatory base to allow them to really be successful isn't there yet. They are essentially a pre-industrial semi-medieval society in the countryside making a jump to the 21st century in cities without the intermediate developments of the industrial age. It's like going from being a child to an adult with having the advantage of learning from adolescence. Some important lessons and development are missed which will in the future will result in significant stumbles.

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

The good thing about the recession is China gets hurt... Am I wrong to think that? Should you cut your nose to spite your face? Is it wrong to root for your own country and not wish yours gets overtaken by a country with 10 trillion ppl?

They destroy old, 30 story buildings by building bamboo scaffolding and beating it to death, literally by hand.... But I watch cops do nothing on detail in Massachusetts and make 70 bucks an hour.... which is worse?

barely...growth slowed slightly to 9% and is already starting to recover. China's "downturn" (if you can call it that) lasted about 2 quarters, with the lowest economic growth in a quarter 6.9% (Q4, 2008).

And Lurker, how is having the fastest high speed trains in the world, a huge expressway network which is expanding rapidly, the fastest mobile internet, massive public transport systems built from scratch not having the infastructural base to really be successful? Many companies have the option of switching out of China because wages have risen, but chose to stay because total costs are lower than in other countries because of efficient infrastructure. In fact, total costs have actually lowered since 2000, even though wages have doubled.

Corruption is a problem, but it doesn't really get in the way of development, but mostly redirects or boosts it. China has already made the transition from a "semi-medieval" society to a modern, urban one quite smoothly so far, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that skipping a phase of development will result in "significant stumbles." So truly, you really have a lot to learn about China.

 

[Lurker]

And Lurker, how is having the fastest high speed trains in the world, a huge expressway network which is expanding rapidly, the fastest mobile internet, massive public transport systems built from scratch not having the infastructural base to really be successful?

Corruption is a problem, but it doesn't really get in the way of development, but mostly redirects or boosts it. China has already made the transition from a "semi-medieval" society to a modern, urban one quite smoothly so far, and there doesn't seem to be any evidence that skipping a phase of development will result in "significant stumbles." So truly, you really have a lot to learn about China.

So what percentage of the population has access to all the high tech construction?

Please do you own research on per capita demographics, they show an interesting picture in comparison to the infrastructure of other developed nations and the looming aging problem China will face in the next two decades.

Infrastructure means a lot more than industrial capability, it also has to do with the civil society to support and facilitate "quality" growth.

Corruption doesn't get in the way of development, it boosts sloppy development, poor quality construction, pollution, and a myriad of other problems which only become evident a decade later.

Most of the stumbling has to do with the government unable to keep up with the material and political demands of a growing middle class, pollution, and quality control.

I do know a bit about China. I spent a year in the rain and mud watching some God-forsaken river border no one really cared about, except for a few hundred artillery batteries.

 

[KentXie]

Many of the new hi-rises are built with the same crappy materials that are fire hazards to the city. If there is ever a large nation wide earthquake many of those buildings are going to come crashing down.

The Chinese have the manpower, willpower, and brainpower to build, but the infrastructural and non corrupt regulatory base to allow them to really be successful isn't there yet. They are essentially a pre-industrial semi-medieval society in the countryside making a jump to the 21st century in cities without the intermediate developments of the industrial age. It's like going from being a child to an adult with having the advantage of learning from adolescence. Some important lessons and development are missed which will in the future will result in significant stumbles.

Not necessarily. The material regardless is improvement than what is there already. (Of course, I am assuming that the 30 story towers being knocked down mentioned by Suffolk are really just old low-rise apartments. I didn't here about any towers being knocked down and replaced.) And of course, if China was to go through the intermediate developments of the industrial age, nations around the world will be bashing China for the pollution the country is making. They are already doing that now.

 

[BarbaricManchurian]

So what percentage of the population has access to all the high tech construction?

Please do you own research on per capita demographics, they show an interesting picture in comparison to the infrastructure of other developed nations and the looming aging problem China will face in the next two decades.

Infrastructure means a lot more than industrial capability, it also has to do with the civil society to support and facilitate "quality" growth.

Corruption doesn't get in the way of development, it boosts sloppy development, poor quality construction, pollution, and a myriad of other problems which only become evident a decade later.

Most of the stumbling has to do with the government unable to keep up with the material and political demands of a growing middle class, pollution, and quality control.

I do know a bit about China. I spent a year in the rain and mud watching some God-forsaken river border no one really cared about, except for a few hundred artillery batteries.

Of course China's infrastructure is not as good as developed nations yet, that's why it's classified as a developing country. China will be facing an aging problem, but much milder than the ones that will be faced in Japan and Europe; in fact, China's population will have risen by 2050, in comparison to many developed countries that will have major population decreases (Japan, eastern Europe, parts of western Europe).

"Quality" growth is subjective...I see high quality projects underway all throughout China, and services playing a greater role in the economy. Of course, "quality" is a totally subjective term, and can be used for all sorts of different purposes.

As you can see, I have sort of a cavalier attitude on corruption, but all of the problems you listed are ones to be fixed and ones that occurred in the development of every nation. The government is learning, and catching up with the demands of the middle class (don't see any political demands that occurred though). Pollution is decreasing, albeit not as fast as any of us would like, and quality control is a problem, but as China progresses past manufacturing its prominence will decrease.

And China has changed a lot since the cold war years, watching it across a river 20-40 years ago is only tangentically applicable to today's discussion. Sometimes I can't even keep up with all of the changes.

 

[czsz]

So to recap - the recession means:

- There are fewer ugly suburban subdivisions being built in the US
- There are fewer ugly concrete block towers being built in the former Soviet Union (I'm amazed this design philosophy hasn't been done away with)
- There are fewer SUVs being bought
- There are fewer casinos and expressways being put up

What's that they say about clouds and silver linings?