Blue Line extension to Lynn
- Thread starter PaulC
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Beton Brut
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If the piss-poor state of the Blue Line's existing vehicles and infrastructure is any indication, I'd say it's dead as Dillinger
A little review:
1.) Stations that are a little over a decade old are falling down
2.) Stations that were slated to be replaced almost 20 years ago have seen a paucity of maintenance, with no construction bids for the promised work
3.) Shiny-new Aquarium is getting the all-too-familiar seediness that symbolizes the T's agency-wide commitment to mediocrity and failure
4.) "Work" is allegedly taking place at State and Maverick (I ride the Blue Line every work day and many weekends, and I've NEVER seen a construction worker at either station)
5.) Both Government Center and Orient Heights are to be replaced/retrofitted
6.) We're at least 8 months away from seeing the new fleet of Blue Line cars
If you're looking to get to Lynn, hop in the car...
A little review:
1.) Stations that are a little over a decade old are falling down
2.) Stations that were slated to be replaced almost 20 years ago have seen a paucity of maintenance, with no construction bids for the promised work
3.) Shiny-new Aquarium is getting the all-too-familiar seediness that symbolizes the T's agency-wide commitment to mediocrity and failure
4.) "Work" is allegedly taking place at State and Maverick (I ride the Blue Line every work day and many weekends, and I've NEVER seen a construction worker at either station)
5.) Both Government Center and Orient Heights are to be replaced/retrofitted
6.) We're at least 8 months away from seeing the new fleet of Blue Line cars
If you're looking to get to Lynn, hop in the car...
If they can get a Federal capital grant to extend the blue line to Lynn, then they will do it. Right now however I think all of the Federal money for the time being is tied up with the Green Line expansion to Medford. It will be at least 20 years before we see an actual solid plan for the Blue Line expansion.
So, to answer your questions, yes, it is dead for now, but not forever.
So, to answer your questions, yes, it is dead for now, but not forever.
palindrome
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i would much rather see it reach charles mgh before lynn!!! :?
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I think one of the reasons (besides politics) that the Blue Line to Lynn hasn't been built is because Lynn already has a CR stop and since the BL would only duplicate it, it probably isn't a top priority.
I'd rather see the Blue line to Lynn or the Green to Medford than the Blueline extended to MGH. I think Lynn (a suburb of about 89,000), and Medford (and the North Shore as a whole) are too populous of areas and too close to Boston to not have rapid-transit lines extended their direction.
The commuter rail is a great option for Mass Transit, but it's not nearly as convenient as the Subway. I live on the Southshore (in Assonet) and take the CR out of the Middleboro/Lakeville stop on the Middleboro/Lakeville line when i commute to Boston sometimes (the station is close to my house). The sucky part of this is the schedule of the CR. i have to plan my day around when the train departs/ arrives, etc. Not to mention, the latest trains home are around 10:30 (noooot many options for an evening on the town).
If i'm going into town, i usually suck it up and drive to Quincy/Adams and take the redline. The reason i do this is the flexibilty rapid transit allows. i never wait more than 15 minutes for a train (as opposed to 1.5+ hours sometimes for the next commuter rail), The subway gives you easy access to any stop in town (via free interchange) while the CR only accesses a few stations and you have to pay to get on the subway.
My (longwinded) point is that Rapid Transit is easier to use... especially for people in the immediate metropolitan area (i.e. Lynn, albeit on the fringe, and Medford). While i will never live to see the day the Redline extends to Assonet or Lakeville, I believe that Rapid Transit needs to be expaned on the north shore, and Commuter Rail is NOT an equal alternative to that kind of Mass Transit.
The commuter rail is a great option for Mass Transit, but it's not nearly as convenient as the Subway. I live on the Southshore (in Assonet) and take the CR out of the Middleboro/Lakeville stop on the Middleboro/Lakeville line when i commute to Boston sometimes (the station is close to my house). The sucky part of this is the schedule of the CR. i have to plan my day around when the train departs/ arrives, etc. Not to mention, the latest trains home are around 10:30 (noooot many options for an evening on the town).
If i'm going into town, i usually suck it up and drive to Quincy/Adams and take the redline. The reason i do this is the flexibilty rapid transit allows. i never wait more than 15 minutes for a train (as opposed to 1.5+ hours sometimes for the next commuter rail), The subway gives you easy access to any stop in town (via free interchange) while the CR only accesses a few stations and you have to pay to get on the subway.
My (longwinded) point is that Rapid Transit is easier to use... especially for people in the immediate metropolitan area (i.e. Lynn, albeit on the fringe, and Medford). While i will never live to see the day the Redline extends to Assonet or Lakeville, I believe that Rapid Transit needs to be expaned on the north shore, and Commuter Rail is NOT an equal alternative to that kind of Mass Transit.
TomOfBoston
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PaulC said:
I am 55 years old and I remember hearing about the Blue Line extension to Lynn when I was a teenager in the Sixties! It wasn't even called the Blue Line yet. Maybe our great grandchildren will build it someday.
JimboJones
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Green line extension ...
Along the same lines as previous poster about Blue Line extension being promised for years, I find it hilarious that real estate agents are already touting the Green Line extension into Medford, even though it's not even been approved yet, much less funded, much less broken ground.
There are at least eleven listings in MLS that say something along the lines of this entry:
Buy now before people figure out they will be able to walk to the Green Line from here!!
(That is an actual quote from a listing.)
Along the same lines as previous poster about Blue Line extension being promised for years, I find it hilarious that real estate agents are already touting the Green Line extension into Medford, even though it's not even been approved yet, much less funded, much less broken ground.
There are at least eleven listings in MLS that say something along the lines of this entry:
Buy now before people figure out they will be able to walk to the Green Line from here!!
(That is an actual quote from a listing.)
KentXie
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Blue Line blues
Rapid-transit extension to Lynn still on table, but funds are lacking
By Steven Rosenberg, Globe Staff | April 6, 2008
Naija Lowery hasn't followed the long history of attempts to expand the Blue Line 4.5 miles from Wonderland in Revere to Lynn. She doesn't keep tabs on the debate over the hundreds of millions of dollars the state doesn't have to build it. All she knows is that if rapid transit came to Lynn, she could spend about an hour less each day commuting to her cashier's job in Brookline.
"It would make everybody's commute easier," said Lowery, 18, who lives in downtown Lynn.
Since 1947, North Shore residents - along with state and federal officials - have debated the merits of extending the Blue Line. Proponents say the extension would reshape Lynn's economy and restore the sleepy downtown to its glory days as an industrial hub in the mid-20th century.
But opponents say spending up to $600 million to extend the line would have marginal benefits to the region, and would just add another option for Lynn commuters who already have more than 12 chances each weekday morning to get to Boston by either commuter train or bus.
"I feel like it's one of those pie-in-the-sky ideas. I think they need to improve the service first; add more trains, and put more money into that before they expand," said Rose Fisher, 29, who commutes to Boston for her job as a property manager every weekday after driving to Wonderland from her home in Salem.
An average of 5,355 people used the Wonderland station to get to Boston each weekday in 2007, according to the MBTA. An average of 637 opted for the commuter rail station in Lynn to make their weekday trips into town last year, the MBTA said.
While state and federal studies have been in the works for decades - and promises to build the extension have been made by everyone from the late Senator Paul E. Tsongas to former lieutenant governor Kerry M. Healey - just under $15 million has been raised for the project, with half in federal funds secured by US Representative John F. Tierney, a Democrat from Salem.
More state funds could be allotted to the project soon. Last week, the House and Senate debated Governor Deval Patrick's state transportation bond bill, which calls for $25 million to go to the Blue Line expansion.
Even with the added funding, the project faces numerous hurdles. Currently, there are three proposals to extend the Blue Line. The most expensive would cost $600 million and calls for building an overhead track that would cross over Route 1A in Revere, continue over the Rumney Marsh, and connect with a new set of tracks that would run next to the existing commuter rail line into Lynn's Central Square train station.
The least expensive option would cost $155 million and extend the Blue Line over Route 1A to a new commuter rail station behind Wonderland Greyhound Park, allowing train passengers from the north to transfer to the Blue Line.
The most controversial proposal would cost $400 million and be built along the former route of a narrow-gauge electric line that ran from East Boston to downtown Lynn from 1905 to 1943. That line would run parallel to Revere Beach Boulevard and cut through the Point of Pines neighborhood before jutting over a new bridge spanning the Saugus River and into Lynn.
"If the proposal is to go the narrow gauge route, then the city of Revere will be opposed, and we will take whatever steps we need to take to try to prevent the project from moving forward," said Revere Mayor Thomas Ambrosino.
Ambrosino, who thinks the proposal would have "marginal benefits" to his city, said he would not oppose either of the other plans.
Wonderland is currently the last stop on the Blue Line, which makes two more stops in Revere - at Revere Beach and Beachmont - before heading to Suffolk Downs in East Boston and continuing into downtown Boston. Last month, the T put four new cars on the line, the start of a $172 million project that is largely being funded by the federal government and will eventually include 94 new cars.
The Newburyport/Rockport commuter rail line travels along the coast into Lynn, then stops in Chelsea before ending its run at North Station.
Steve Woelfel, manager of statewide transit planning for the Executive Office of Transportation and Public Works, said his office is finishing an environmental impact statement draft on the three proposals. Public hearings on the report will be held later this year. Woelfel said the statement would be sent to Washington to be reviewed by the Federal Transit Administration. Once submitted, the state would apply to the FTA for a project grant.
With hundreds of millions to raise, state and local elected officials are nonetheless optimistic that the extension will be built. Lynn legislators, including state Senator Thomas M. McGee and state Representative Steven M. Walsh, said the rapid transit extension would fill Lynn's commuter rail 965-car parking garage (which was just 17 percent full last year, compared with Wonderland's lots, which were at capacity), relieve rush-hour traffic, and provide access to Logan Airport.
With subway cars running more frequently than trains, the legislators said Lynn would have more visitors and more business.
McGee and Walsh compared Lynn's plight with results in Somerville, a city that received an economic boost when the Red Line expanded to Davis Square in 1984.
"Lynn has been out of that ability to key in to potential opportunity for economic development, and the rapid transit brings so much more than bus and commuter rails do," said McGee.
Rapid-transit extension to Lynn still on table, but funds are lacking
By Steven Rosenberg, Globe Staff | April 6, 2008
Naija Lowery hasn't followed the long history of attempts to expand the Blue Line 4.5 miles from Wonderland in Revere to Lynn. She doesn't keep tabs on the debate over the hundreds of millions of dollars the state doesn't have to build it. All she knows is that if rapid transit came to Lynn, she could spend about an hour less each day commuting to her cashier's job in Brookline.
"It would make everybody's commute easier," said Lowery, 18, who lives in downtown Lynn.
Since 1947, North Shore residents - along with state and federal officials - have debated the merits of extending the Blue Line. Proponents say the extension would reshape Lynn's economy and restore the sleepy downtown to its glory days as an industrial hub in the mid-20th century.
But opponents say spending up to $600 million to extend the line would have marginal benefits to the region, and would just add another option for Lynn commuters who already have more than 12 chances each weekday morning to get to Boston by either commuter train or bus.
"I feel like it's one of those pie-in-the-sky ideas. I think they need to improve the service first; add more trains, and put more money into that before they expand," said Rose Fisher, 29, who commutes to Boston for her job as a property manager every weekday after driving to Wonderland from her home in Salem.
An average of 5,355 people used the Wonderland station to get to Boston each weekday in 2007, according to the MBTA. An average of 637 opted for the commuter rail station in Lynn to make their weekday trips into town last year, the MBTA said.
While state and federal studies have been in the works for decades - and promises to build the extension have been made by everyone from the late Senator Paul E. Tsongas to former lieutenant governor Kerry M. Healey - just under $15 million has been raised for the project, with half in federal funds secured by US Representative John F. Tierney, a Democrat from Salem.
More state funds could be allotted to the project soon. Last week, the House and Senate debated Governor Deval Patrick's state transportation bond bill, which calls for $25 million to go to the Blue Line expansion.
Even with the added funding, the project faces numerous hurdles. Currently, there are three proposals to extend the Blue Line. The most expensive would cost $600 million and calls for building an overhead track that would cross over Route 1A in Revere, continue over the Rumney Marsh, and connect with a new set of tracks that would run next to the existing commuter rail line into Lynn's Central Square train station.
The least expensive option would cost $155 million and extend the Blue Line over Route 1A to a new commuter rail station behind Wonderland Greyhound Park, allowing train passengers from the north to transfer to the Blue Line.
The most controversial proposal would cost $400 million and be built along the former route of a narrow-gauge electric line that ran from East Boston to downtown Lynn from 1905 to 1943. That line would run parallel to Revere Beach Boulevard and cut through the Point of Pines neighborhood before jutting over a new bridge spanning the Saugus River and into Lynn.
"If the proposal is to go the narrow gauge route, then the city of Revere will be opposed, and we will take whatever steps we need to take to try to prevent the project from moving forward," said Revere Mayor Thomas Ambrosino.
Ambrosino, who thinks the proposal would have "marginal benefits" to his city, said he would not oppose either of the other plans.
Wonderland is currently the last stop on the Blue Line, which makes two more stops in Revere - at Revere Beach and Beachmont - before heading to Suffolk Downs in East Boston and continuing into downtown Boston. Last month, the T put four new cars on the line, the start of a $172 million project that is largely being funded by the federal government and will eventually include 94 new cars.
The Newburyport/Rockport commuter rail line travels along the coast into Lynn, then stops in Chelsea before ending its run at North Station.
Steve Woelfel, manager of statewide transit planning for the Executive Office of Transportation and Public Works, said his office is finishing an environmental impact statement draft on the three proposals. Public hearings on the report will be held later this year. Woelfel said the statement would be sent to Washington to be reviewed by the Federal Transit Administration. Once submitted, the state would apply to the FTA for a project grant.
With hundreds of millions to raise, state and local elected officials are nonetheless optimistic that the extension will be built. Lynn legislators, including state Senator Thomas M. McGee and state Representative Steven M. Walsh, said the rapid transit extension would fill Lynn's commuter rail 965-car parking garage (which was just 17 percent full last year, compared with Wonderland's lots, which were at capacity), relieve rush-hour traffic, and provide access to Logan Airport.
With subway cars running more frequently than trains, the legislators said Lynn would have more visitors and more business.
McGee and Walsh compared Lynn's plight with results in Somerville, a city that received an economic boost when the Red Line expanded to Davis Square in 1984.
"Lynn has been out of that ability to key in to potential opportunity for economic development, and the rapid transit brings so much more than bus and commuter rails do," said McGee.
I dont like the extension. The yellow box is the wasted space. Its dead land, and theres no need for rail there. Meanwhile, going into Lynn for 600 passengers? No thanks.
What should be done is the line extended north a little to a stop past wonderland, and then left to the commuter rail, for a rail/subway transfer.
Thats in red
What should be done is the line extended north a little to a stop past wonderland, and then left to the commuter rail, for a rail/subway transfer.
Thats in red
The Red/Blue connector needs to be done before any of this craziness.
It will benefit a hell of a lot more people on more than just the Blue Line. Park St. would become considerably less crazy, and the Green Line less packed.
It will benefit a hell of a lot more people on more than just the Blue Line. Park St. would become considerably less crazy, and the Green Line less packed.
Ron Newman
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A lot more than 600 passengers would use this if it were built. Many more people use the Red Line at Porter Square today than used the commuter rail stop that was there before the Red Line came in 1984. The same is likely true in Malden.
I agree that this project requires the Red/Blue connector, otherwise it will just further overburden the Park-Government Center section of the Green Line.
The narrow gauge route is clearly superior to the other one, as it would allow adding two or three additional Revere stations between Wonderland and Lynn.
I do not understand your reference to a "yellow box", as I don't see anything that looks like this in the diagram.
I agree that this project requires the Red/Blue connector, otherwise it will just further overburden the Park-Government Center section of the Green Line.
The narrow gauge route is clearly superior to the other one, as it would allow adding two or three additional Revere stations between Wonderland and Lynn.
I do not understand your reference to a "yellow box", as I don't see anything that looks like this in the diagram.
KentXie
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He created a yellow box at the area where the more expensive plans crosses the river into Lynn.
@ the narrow gauge route, I doubt that any station will be added since there is nothing located near the path that the Blue Line will transverse. Seems like one long stop similar to JFK-North Quincy Station on the Red Line.
Ron Newman
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Didn't the Narrow Gauge have stations along this route, such as at Point of Pines?
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I believe there were three stations originally along this route, Revere St, Oak Island, and Point-o-Pines, then it stopped at West Lynn and Lynn Center.
As much as I am in favor of extending the Blue Line, jass makes a good point that there aren't too many people living in between Wonderland and Lynn. This same money could be spend on the Red-Blue connector which would serve many more people.
As much as I am in favor of extending the Blue Line, jass makes a good point that there aren't too many people living in between Wonderland and Lynn. This same money could be spend on the Red-Blue connector which would serve many more people.
BostonObserver
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About 20 years ago the T did a 'study' on the blue/red conector and the results were that only about 12 additional people would use use the T. I don't believe the study but I do think expanding to Lynn will increase in far more riders than the connector.
palindrome
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In the red blue connector case, it is not so much the additional use of the T, as it is the actual decrease in use of the green line/park street, as well as simple convenience. It just makes sense to connect the two.
Ron Newman
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The Red-Blue connector would help the waterfronts on both sides of the harbor, as well as East Boston in general. It would become reasonable to live in Eastie and work in Kendall or Harvard squares, for instance.
JimboJones
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I've yet to be convinced that "a lot more than 600 people" would use a Blue Line extention.