Late night T service take 2

Will The Late-Night MBTA Ride Forever 'Neath The Streets Of Boston?

By EDGAR B. HERWICK III

Six month ago, on the first night of late night MBTA service, there was an unmistakable air of celebration.

On a recent weekend, there wasn’t the same buzz in the air, but there were still plenty of folks riding the rails. Katie was heading from Brookline to Copley to meet up with friends and said it's been a game changer for her.

"I have friends who live in East Boston and I'll go out and meet with them and I can stay a while before I have to catch a T home, which is nice," she said.

Among those on the trains were the very people T officials were hoping to attract: Servers heading home after their shifts, like Alejandra Uyarer, who’s saved quite a bit of money riding the late-night T the past few months.

Bailey, an intern from Montana working in a high-tech science field, is new in town, and was surprised to learn that late-night T service was new.

"I expected it to stay late because so many people are out at night," she said. "Especially college — there’s so many colleges around, young students."

Young students and post-grads made up the bulk of the crowds riding on this Friday night, including Erin, Brook and Mandy, who say the late-night service has meant fewer costly cab rides and no more sketchy walks home.

"Now that the T is finally running late night hours, it's just, it's safer, it's more cost efficient, it's cheaper," Erin said. "So it's made a really huge difference."

The trains and stations in and around hotspots like Kendall Square and Park Street were bustling into the wee hours, but you didn’t have to stray too far to find thinner crowds.

At Harvard Square, term "ghost town" would have been a little too strong, but there was definitely a sense of calm and quiet.

That doesn’t worry MBTA General Manager Beverly Scott, who says riders have been respectful, and ridership thus far has met, if not exceeded, her expectations.

"Oh, we’re over 500,000 now since like March 28th," she said. "On just rail alone, we at over 16,000 on the Friday and the Saturday nights and it’s really tracking very nicely.

That’s 16,000 — on average — per weekend.

Of more concern is the cost. Sponsors dollars are covering just $1.5 million of the $16 million it’s costing to run the late night T for a year.

"Make no mistake about this: It’s gonna be very, very challenging for us and for our board, because it is an expensive service, and this is really this administration and our MassDot that has said, 'We’re going to get out there and give it everything we can,'" Scott said.

So halfway through the yearlong pilot, does it appear the service is on track to become a permanent feature?

"We certainly love the service, what’s happening thus far, but in the scheme of things we’re going to have to line all the dollars and the cents up," Scott said.

That kind of caution won’t please Arthur Veale of Boston who says that what the many people he knows who work late night security and grocery jobs really need is a weekday late-night service.

"Most people don't work on weekends, they work on weekdays," he said. "I think if you're going to try running a trial based service, you ought to try and run it on the weekdays, when people are working, when people are coming in for overnight shifts."

Scott points out that they are still evaluating the service week-to-week and month-to-month, and that the single most important thing people who’d like to see it stay can do, is use it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dt2FzZ0C4So

WGBH
 
So the MBTA is currently holding a Twitter town hall about late night service.
Welcome to the #MBTA Twitter Town Hall regarding #latenightservice! You can ask a question using #latenightservice. Join the conversation!
Here's the Storify:
http://www.bostonglobe.com/metro/20...ght-service/1K76234f99jtxxnH3my9uL/story.html

Here's Stephanie Pollack looking at tweets about it:

https://twitter.com/steveannear/status/572445904042639360

B_G8hCNUQAE1kWw.jpg:large


The MBTA also just responded to this guy:
Broadway Jay ‏@_BroadwayJay 17m ago
#latenightservice Why can't we find a sponsor\partner like Budweiser or also just charge $5 flat fee for the subway?
:)

9:15 AM - 2 Mar 2015
MBTA ‏@MBTA 11m ago
@_BroadwayJay Hello! We're looking at increasing sponsorship and/or charging a special late night fare. #latenightservice
 
fuck that, FUCK THAT
seriously, tiered service, FUCK THAT!
if theyre gonna go that route, why not just charge fees for all the random middle of nowhere commuter rails stops too?
or better yet, fuck public transit altogether and just make every station at every time have a varying price that is dependent on demand?
 
fuck that, FUCK THAT
seriously, tiered service, FUCK THAT!
if theyre gonna go that route, why not just charge fees for all the random middle of nowhere commuter rails stops too?
or better yet, fuck public transit altogether and just make every station at every time have a varying price that is dependent on demand?

Wow. That's a very impassioned reaction to the prospect of a surcharge for late night service.

Also... why are talking about demand pricing as though it's a bad thing?? Washington D.C. does it, and they still function...
 
The last page of the MBTA's Late Night presentation estimates what would happen if they had a special "Late Night" fare of $4. Basically, 141,000 fewer trips over the course of a year with revenue increasing just $229,000. They're saying that increasing the fare won't raise much revenue.

I can post later.
 
Wow. That's a very impassioned reaction to the prospect of a surcharge for late night service.

Also... why are talking about demand pricing as though it's a bad thing?? Washington D.C. does it, and they still function...

I don't think it should be implemented. Public transit exists, first and foremost, for people without other options. But, much more importantly, having late night train services is more important for many reasons in an urban center than many obscure commuter rail and bus lines with low ridership. So, if a surcharge for a less used service is going to be implemented, they should start somewhere else than here.
 
I don't think it should be implemented. Public transit exists, first and foremost, for people without other options. But, much more importantly, having late night train services is more important for many reasons in an urban center than many obscure commuter rail and bus lines with low ridership. So, if a surcharge for a less used service is going to be implemented, they should start somewhere else than here.

The cost per passenger is a lot higher. The passengers have to pay for at least some portion of it. Yes, raised fares effect restaurant, bar, custodial, and medical staff as much as they effect drunk young adults blowing their paychecks on booze, but it's either a slightly higher fare or no service at all meaning back to very expensive cab rides. Trust me, I know. My husband is a server.

Would you rather pay $3-5 on the T or $15-20 in a cab?

See this interrim report for the finances: http://massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/...ees/boardDirectors/LateNightreview_021115.pdf

Cost per passenger is $7.68 for late night service, opposed to 84c and $2.74 for regular subway and bus service.
 
Yeah, take that number with a grain of salt.

Remember that they have to just make something up in order to account for the majority of people who have monthly passes and use Late Night service.

And regarding the costs, where are they coming from? Mostly labor. The T hinted during the twitter town hall that there was a cost premium for late night that did not apply to earlier. They say it costs more to run the T from 1-3 am than from 10 pm -12 am, even though only subway and key routes are operating late night.
 
Can the fare gates and boxes even be programmed to disallow passes and charge a higher fare during certain times, without custom changes from the vendor?

I personally think a late-night surcharge is a bad idea. If you're going to go down that route, why not have a sliding fare throughout the day, that's proportional to the cost to run the service? Why make a distinction between 12:30 and 2:30 vs. any other time slot?
 
Why not charge a peak congestion fare (like many other cities) and use that revenue towards late-night service?
 
Yeah, take that number with a grain of salt.

Remember that they have to just make something up in order to account for the majority of people who have monthly passes and use Late Night service.

And regarding the costs, where are they coming from? Mostly labor. The T hinted during the twitter town hall that there was a cost premium for late night that did not apply to earlier. They say it costs more to run the T from 1-3 am than from 10 pm -12 am, even though only subway and key routes are operating late night.

The labor agreement states that driver pieces of work ending/beginning between 2-4 AM shall not be more than 7 hours long but drivers will receive 8 hours pay. If the total assignment is longer than 7 hours, drivers get time and a half. That part of the contract goes all the way back to the original full time night owl service that ended in 1960.
 
They shouldn't stop Late Night service or people like this that use it will be out of luck.

From the T's Interim Review of Late Night Service:

Thank goodness this is available. Elsewise I would have had to walk 3 miles barefoot at 2 a.m.! I only had my CharlieCard and a dead smartphone. Thanks, MBTA!
 
The labor agreement states that driver pieces of work ending/beginning between 2-4 AM shall not be more than 7 hours long but drivers will receive 8 hours pay. If the total assignment is longer than 7 hours, drivers get time and a half. That part of the contract goes all the way back to the original full time night owl service that ended in 1960.

Time and a half for the portion over 7 hours, or time and a half for the whole span?

What about inspectors, station attendants, etc?
 
Time and a half for the portion over 7 hours, or time and a half for the whole span?

What about inspectors, station attendants, etc?

I believe its time and a half for the portion over 7. Customer Service Agents are part of the Carmen's Union and I believe are covered by this. Inspectors are a different union, I don't think they have the same provision in their contract.
 
The cost per passenger is a lot higher. The passengers have to pay for at least some portion of it. Yes, raised fares effect restaurant, bar, custodial, and medical staff as much as they effect drunk young adults blowing their paychecks on booze, but it's either a slightly higher fare or no service at all meaning back to very expensive cab rides. Trust me, I know. My husband is a server.

Would you rather pay $3-5 on the T or $15-20 in a cab?

See this interrim report for the finances: http://massdot.state.ma.us/Portals/...ees/boardDirectors/LateNightreview_021115.pdf

Cost per passenger is $7.68 for late night service, opposed to 84c and $2.74 for regular subway and bus service.

ok, so what - nobody's riding the 39 bus at ten pm, and they dont pay extra. if youre going to use the principle that a less-used time period or service should cost more than it should be applied everywhere - like to less used commuter lines, bus route, off-peak hours... and i dont agree with that at all. why should late night service be the sole thing that suffers - especially given that it's far more important to what this whole urban region? boston needs to get real and get modern - everything about this place is outdated, it's a huge turn off to a lot of newcomers. late night service is important for many reasons, and just because it's not getting the volume of 6pm rush hour doesnt mean riders should have to pay more.
 
Just heard on WBUR: Scaling back late night service to 2am rather than 2:30am. Cutting some bus routes.

Seems to me that scaling back to 2am will just accomplish even less revenue than it's getting now.
 
Also, it just might lead to the eventual demise of the program! :eek:
 

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