[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

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Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The towers look like they could be nice. But the quality of the rendering/picture is horrible.

Certainly some interesting lines moving up the building. I'd really like to see a better render & more views.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I like them both. Very different for Boston, but at least they aren't boring or ugly. I expected something "shard-like" given the base. I really like breaking up the rectilinear monotony of downtown towers.

I now predict the NIMBYs will win this fight. If it was a shitty squat box with a mash-up of facade materials and a tumor growing out the side, then the BRA would railroad it through. But since it is pretty we will never have it. /pessimism
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Funny how so many contributors on this forum damn the "sneering" attitudes of NIMBYs (real or imagined) on any subject and then proceed to attack in the same dubious manner.

The people I know in HT are not worried about losing their views. I'm sure some residents are - if you owned a view would you be anxious to lose it? The three owners I know truly love the city and realize there's a chance to build something special on this site. They understand it will likely (perhaps, rightfully) mean height.

Whatever HT residents feel they are not the only stake-holders in this enterprise. Few sites in Boston offer what this one does, and it should be aggressively reviewed and proceed as transparently as possible.

The common thread for everyone I know, personal desires notwithstanding, is the developer, Chiofaro.

I remember Phillip Johnson commenting on this developer when IP was going up. "Wrong person, wrong building, wrong ideas. But I did what I could and I will live with the results."

Maybe Johnson's the one who had it wrong? Maybe he was having a bad day? Either way, when a developer makes the case it is all or nothing, I am suspicious. Personally, I've found all his renders underwhelming. I can live with underwhelming - as we all have recently in this city - but this is one location where we should hold out for special.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Those look fantastic...really want to see some higher quality though. Those look like someone took a picture of a picture.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

My understanding is that Chiofaro asserts he needs the height to offset the cost of a 1.400 car underground garage, that the cost of the garage cannot be recouped by parking fees.
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There is a large underground garage in Washington DC adjacent to the Potomac River and certainly not as deep as this proposed garage, and during peak flood events on the Potomac, they can flood the lowest level;s with 'clean' city water to offset the hydrostatic pressure of a river in flood. When the river falls, they pump out the clean water.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

From the Globe for a lil' more perspective:

harbortowers.jpg
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

datadyne007 said:
Boston's waterfront is different & I'm ok with towers being set back like International Place. I think towers in the back form a good backdrop, but up front, for those enjoying the Greenway, Harborwalk and such, a giant tower right on the edge is not the ideal situation. No matter how much glass you use, it ends up being a giant wall. I also think it's important to not obsess about the way the waterfront looks from a boat cruise rather than the way it looks and feels from the land.
Click to expand...

Data, "for those enjoying the Greenway, Harborwalk and such" there is a giant wall there NOW.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

nm88 said:
Funny how so many contributors on this forum damn the "sneering" attitudes of NIMBYs (real or imagined) on any subject and then proceed to attack in the same dubious manner.

The people I know in HT are not worried about losing their views. I'm sure some residents are - if you owned a view would you be anxious to lose it? The three owners I know truly love the city and realize there's a chance to build something special on this site. They understand it will likely (perhaps, rightfully) mean height.

Whatever HT residents feel they are not the only stake-holders in this enterprise. Few sites in Boston offer what this one does, and it should be aggressively reviewed and proceed as transparently as possible.

The common thread for everyone I know, personal desires notwithstanding, is the developer, Chiofaro.

I remember Phillip Johnson commenting on this developer when IP was going up. "Wrong person, wrong building, wrong ideas. But I did what I could and I will live with the results."

Maybe Johnson's the one who had it wrong? Maybe he was having a bad day? Either way, when a developer makes the case it is all or nothing, I am suspicious. Personally, I've found all his renders underwhelming. I can live with underwhelming - as we all have recently in this city - but this is one location where we should hold out for special.
Click to expand...

Your reported objectives for the people in HT are very sensible. However, let's be clear, they do not 'own' the view. They own a condo that overlooks someone else's developable property (which originally would have had a tower blocking their view for the last 40+ years). They have massively benefitted both financially and by the improvement to the neighborhood from a plan that was intended to bring people, traffic and economic development to the waterfront. Over time this included a massive expenditure of public money. That they now want to foreclose or limit the development rights of others is the textbook definition of NIMBY. And then to make an ad hominem comment about the developer backed by, no less than Philip Johnson is fairly preposterous.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

shmessy said:
Data, "for those enjoying the Greenway, Harborwalk and such" there is a giant wall there NOW.
Click to expand...
As the latest rendering illustrates, a wall with a notch which he proposes to fill, and thus the FAA's claim, 'we need that notch'.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

As a private property owner, there is no 'right' to a view. If you want to obtain a 'right' to a view, buy an easement securing the view that you desire, and then you and your successors can enjoy it in perpetuity.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Much better than the original design.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Yes, the garage is a hideous hindrance. Yes, everyone love to maintain views from their residences. Yes, something is going to replace that garage eventually. Yes, we all like to look at great looking buildings (and distract us from, ahem...the likes of IP phase I). Yes, what we see in sketches and pics at this stage WILL change, usually not for the better. Yes, shadows will stretch across the city (mostly AM). And yes, from harbor boats, East Boston, and the air it will add to what we all enjoy as the "skyline" view of the city. However, from the ground most of us are not going to crane our necks up to see the top of even 25 story buildings, so the design of the first 3-5 stories is all-important, as is the sidewalk action on the Greenway (unlike soooo much of what is passing as "urbanism" in the seaport district). And by the time it's finished I may be well into my 70's, and too old to enjoy it....so what else is new, Boston??
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

This HAS to be built, in Boston serious skyline altering proposals like this from a committed developer rarely come and when they do they are gotten rid of quick. Many people see Boston as a major american city but with a severely lacking skyline. If this gets built along with the towers already coming down the pipeline this immediately elevates Bostons skyline to a level it has not seen in the modern world. If this goes up, filenes is already being built, christian science, and copley.... Complete revamp. As it stands I love the Boston skyline but I understand that I like it even more for the potential it has. We have tons of the street level, mid rises, tons of filler that other cities desparately lack, and a couple standout buildings that make it pleasant to look at but with a few world class developments all of those pieces come together and we have a gem of a skyline.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

stick n move said:
This HAS to be built, in Boston serious skyline altering proposals like this from a committed developer rarely come and when they do they are gotten rid of quick. Many people see Boston as a major american city but with a severely lacking skyline. If this gets built along with the towers already coming down the pipeline this immediately elevates Bostons skyline to a level it has not seen in the modern world. If this goes up, filenes is already being built, christian science, and copley.... Complete revamp. As it stands I love the Boston skyline but I understand that I like it even more for the potential it has. We have tons of the street level, mid rises, tons of filler that other cities desparately lack, and a couple standout buildings that make it pleasant to look at but with a few world class developments all of those pieces come together and we have a gem of a skyline.
Click to expand...

Completely agree...add in TD, GCG, and Winthrop sq and Boston will be unbelievable.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

choo said:
I am not fully endorsing this plan, but I am endorsing a plan. On the height front, to be honest, I think many people don't care if its 250' 350' of 550', as long as its not the garage.
Click to expand...

Put me in this camp. I don't really care how high it goes, though I'd prefer something tall and beautiful. I was just saying that I see the height as a requirement to do anything to the garage.

Maybe during negotiations, the height gets chopped a little bit in return for not needing 1400 spaces? After all, this IS right next to the Aquarium stop.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

datadyne007 said:
Boston's waterfront is different & I'm ok with towers being set back like International Place. I think towers in the back form a good backdrop, but up front, for those enjoying the Greenway, Harborwalk and such, a giant tower right on the edge is not the ideal situation. No matter how much glass you use, it ends up being a giant wall. I also think it's important to not obsess about the way the waterfront looks from a boat cruise rather than the way it looks and feels from the land.
Click to expand...

Tbh Data, there's no difference between a 200 ft building going up and a 600 ft tower going up there if the area taken up at the ground floor is the same regardless. It's still going to be a wall when you're on the street unless you happen to be 200 ft tall.

Case in point: The Intercontinental Hotel.
 
Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

paperless paul said:
Your reported objectives for the people in HT are very sensible. However, let's be clear, they do not 'own' the view. They own a condo that overlooks someone else's developable property (which originally would have had a tower blocking their view for the last 40+ years). They have massively benefitted both financially and by the improvement to the neighborhood from a plan that was intended to bring people, traffic and economic development to the waterfront. Over time this included a massive expenditure of public money. That they now want to foreclose or limit the development rights of others is the textbook definition of NIMBY. And then to make an ad hominem comment about the developer backed by, no less than Philip Johnson is fairly preposterous.
Click to expand...

I don't believe you fairly quote me. I did not say they own the view. I said they love the city and expect their living situation to change. And preposterous Johnson? Fine. Believe what you like. I quote verbatim.
 
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