MGM Music Hall (née Fenway Theater) | 12 Lansdowne St | Fenway

i like the Theater Yaeey!

i enjoy hearing everyone's point of view. i particularly like BB's and DD's (and many others i'm leaving out) diverse opinions. BB is very hard to impress, which make his opinions in the context of multi layers of sophistication (or lack thereof) for present + future planning very noteworthy. Massing density and urbanity count too! Boston's planners are deer caught in the headlights! As long as we continue to build squat garbage on just about every fucking parcel in this City, i'll continue to refuse to back off from that position.

As far as long term planning for the future, the massing and density of this project SUCKS; obvious kindergarten, AOC-level.... scores at 1982/Flynn era/ live in the moment SHIT you expect to see in a mid-western sprawl city like St. Louis, Nashville, Denver or Dallas.

odurandina said:
i like the theater. i especially love that the Red Sox can put so many types of activities inside! But, like many of the sites that exist in the core of the Metro, this parcel is an iconic/once in a generation type opportunity. It requires planning at an extreme level of mastery--(and this clearly ain't it). Compare this site to Long, Rowes or Lovejoy Wharves. It abuts what ostensibly, would someday be a National Monument. You don't you get to go back and re-do it. This site is IVY LEAGUE class. You get it right the first time or fail. Do you get to graduate from Harvard with a bunch of incomplete's?
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John Harrington, Frank McCourt and Stephen Karp in a circa-2001 AIM chatroom called "Crazy Fenway Park Pitches" are all very interested in this discussion. Dan Shaughnessy likes the pun in that title and thinks he can get an 800 word column out of the premise.

This is garbage. Can nothing be salvaged from the thread shittery?
 
I imagine they don't want anything that they don't have full control over that has views into Fenway Park.
 
240~406' w/ housing/ offices. Keep the bleachers how they are. Add 3~4 floors of those lux boxes you want, and bring Nike or someone like that. Look, the area is growing. Put New England's largest ski-supply/outerware, Amazon or Apple type store up there. Work with what you have. This is an iconic parcel supporting iconic planning.
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Oh yea nothing says iconic like a fucking Amazon or Apple store. Are you just fucking trolling us at this point? A 400ft tower in center-left field? Jesus fucking Christ. Get a new god damned fetish and stop jacking it to tall tower proposals. That would totally fuck up the wind patterns in the park and ruin the character of the place.
 
Can only imagine what a 400' would do next to the park to wind/shadows/etc ;)
 
jass said:
If the purple building was the height of the red building, the floor could be sloped so it is actually a theater people want to go to
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The floor is for standing/dancing. People would definitely not want that to be sloped.
 
I've been avoiding replying to this thread for a few reasons. An earlier take on the "Fenway experience" was somewhat controversial, perhaps leaning to heavily on nostalgia. I think LiveNation is a shit company - don't believe me, read up on them. And if I spend too much time thinking about "greedy owners" and "venal politicians," I won't be able to really enjoy watching the game.

So, I like the looks of the theatre, especially if they're able to match the masonry details on Lansdowne and Ipswich. The only thing I dislike about it is LiveNation's involvement.

And leave the bleachers alone; indeed, add more seats, see if capacity can be pushed to an even 40K.

Bonus: sell cheap beer in the stands for the entire game.
 
bakgwailo said:
Can only imagine what a 400' would do next to the park to wind/shadows/etc ;)
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Shadows; what until ~8:45 am in Left Field & Monster seats?

Wind; i accept the truth.... let's see the study.

if you prove you can only go 240', then two-forty it is.

meddlepal said:
Are you just fucking trolling us at this point? A 400ft tower in center-left field? Jesus fucking Christ. Get a new god damned fetish and stop jacking it to tall tower proposals. That would totally fuck up the wind patterns in the park and ruin the character of the place.
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Classy. i'm pushing vertical in Boston. You're my test audience for the pro nimby's, FOD, bird strikes. etc.....

meddlepal said:
Oh yea nothing says iconic like a fucking Amazon or Apple store.
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Fair point. But i want to increase pedestrian traffic, improve Henry's profitability. Recall (+ housing) for the upper floors. i have no problem with Henry winning big at his site. Improve the overall design, and increase it as a revenue generator.
 
Beton Brut said:
I've been avoiding replying to this thread for a few reasons. An earlier take on the "Fenway experience" was somewhat controversial, perhaps leaning to heavily on nostalgia. I think LiveNation is a shit company - don't believe me, read up on them. And if I spend too much time thinking about "greedy owners" and "venal politicians," I won't be able to really enjoy watching the game.

So, I like the looks of the theatre, especially if they're able to match the masonry details on Lansdowne and Ipswich. The only thing I dislike about it is LiveNation's involvement.

And leave the bleachers alone; indeed, add more seats, see if capacity can be pushed to an even 40K.

Bonus: sell cheap beer in the stands for the entire game.
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I'm with ya BB. The theater appears fine but what they doing to the bleachers merits discussion. Maybe it is simple nostalgia, but I don't think it's controversial because a strong argument can be made that the character of the place has already been ruined by morphing it into an over priced tourist trap atmosphere. It's why the true purists loath the horrible Neil Diamond song that is played regardless of the situation which, combined with other "enhancements", has virtually eliminated the spontaneity of the experience as it was.

Henry & Co have certainly maximized the park for sure, but the elimination of the grit has its consequences, and that is pricing it out of reach for more and more common people, the hardcore fans who have been there all their lives, other than as a special event for them. Understanding that the market has changed, there is no reason the pavilion can't be above the existing cheap seats. There is also no reason not to make an it open concourse / concessions area, like many other parks have, except they know that a closed area will be highly profitable like the right field bar is, and bring a lot more revenue than the bleacher seats will. They will have no problem selling out that area even though it will be the furthest from the field because the demand is there and will continue to be there for the foreseeable future.
 
Fenway park circa 1940
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HenryAlan said:
The floor is for standing/dancing. People would definitely not want that to be sloped.
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As someone who has been to 500+ concerts...

Come again?

I have been to many venues with sloped floors. Usually, they were theaters with sloped seating, and the seats were removed. But Ive been to dedicated concert venues where that also is the case.

The other alternative is to have the bottom level be tiered, like the Worcester Palladium.

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A flat floor level of that size would be a horrendous experience, and makes zero sense on a new build.
 
It depends they do it in much bigger nhl/nba arenas like the Garden all the time.
 
Classy. i'm pushing vertical in Boston. You're my test audience for the pro nimby's, FOD, bird strikes. etc.....
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If you think I'm a NIMBY because I don't want a skyscraper on every parcel you're as much of an idiot as I assumed.
 
Any approval permit should have a covenant that "Sweet Caroline" can never be played at a Red Sox game. Ever.
 
^ I used to loath Sweet Caroline with every fiber of my being until I met an incredible girl.... named Caroline. Sucks I can't hate it anymore
 
tobyjug said:
Any approval permit should have a covenant that "Sweet Caroline" can never be played at a Red Sox game. Ever.
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Why do they play that? I get “Dirty Water” by the Standells but not the Neil Diamond song.
 
Sprngh2o said:
Why do they play that? I get “Dirty Water” by the Standells but not the Neil Diamond song.
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The only *rational* explanation I can come up with is that Sox ownership is secretly afflicted by intense self-loathing/identity neuroses.

Therefore, they decided to adopt a song--to the point it is now at the core of the Sox' identity--by a gentleman who grew up in the shadow of the BROOKLYN Dodgers' Ebbets Field and emerged out of urban NEW YORK's great mid-20th c. Jewish folk-pop balladeer tradition.

When you think about it, it's really quite weird.

A suitable replacement? Given that Fenway straddles two MBTA subway stations, you can probably do a lot worse than Kingston Trio's "Charlie On The MTA"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S7Jw_v3F_Q0

It's a rollicking, rousing ballad!

(And has absolutely nothing to do with baseball, just like "Sweet Caroline"--but EVERYTHING to do with Boston.)
 
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