New Red and Orange Line Cars

HenryAlan said:
Probably not, but the original plan for the Orange Line did involve branching at Forest Hills, with a Hyde Park branch and a West Roxbury/Dedham branch. I always wonder what that corridor would look like today, had the Hyde Park branch been built in the 80s. I don't think Roslindale and West Roxbury would have changed as much, since the Needham Line already has rapid transit station spacing.
Click to expand...

It would be cool, but, then we wouldn't have the NEC.
 
On a more RL/OL cars topic, the Monday 3/25 FMCB meeting has Red/Orange Line Improvements project on the agenda. Unfortunately it's only a written submission which probably means no big news but now that its early spring we can be hopeful again. Traditional the RL/OL improvements presentations include the signals project, Wellington yard, Cabot yard, OL test track, RL test track, and a brief mention of the cars. If its bad news they'll probably just skip over them entirely.
 
bakgwailo said:
It would be cool, but, then we wouldn't have the NEC.
Click to expand...

Track 4's claimed by Amtrak for expansion Forest Hills to Readville, so this one's officially physically impossible. There's no way anything works with NEC traffic growth if that 4th track isn't added, and taking away Track 3 for Orange would be immediately and permanently catastrophic.

That was a proposal very much of its time. OL-W. Rox is a locked-in trajectory, and if you really really want rapid transit to Hyde Park the trajectory is going to involve. . .

  • proper RL Ashmont-Mattapan heavy rail extension to finish that job
  • digging a 3300 ft. River St. tunnel under the hard granite bedrock from Mattapan Yard/Station to a portal on the Poydras St. hillside.
  • quad-track Fairmount Line points south where most of it used to be 3-4 tracks by ex- freight siding areas (example: the river-side egress at Fairmount Station used to be extra track berths) and widening the first 3 Neponset crossings.
  • displace commuter rail yard across the street to Readville Yard 5, re-use Readville Yard 2 as RL station + yard
. . .which is nobody's idea of a high-priority yet because we haven't attempted real Urban Rail headways on Fairmount, and haven't attempted a real RL-Mattapan extension yet. But at least it's physically possible to attempt in the deep long-term unlike Orange-HP, so Hyde Park isn't totally S.O.L. forever and ever on getting a subway one-seat should that become a pressing future need.
 
Deployment of the first new Orange Line cars is now delayed until the summer. The reason is again the software issues previously cited.
 
Coyote137 said:
Deployment of the first new Orange Line cars is now delayed until the summer. The reason is again the software issues previously cited.
Click to expand...

Worth also reminding everyone that it's the initial deployment only that's affected. The delivery of cars is on schedule, there will just be more of them entering service in the summer than was expected.
 
Equilibria said:
Worth also reminding everyone that it's the initial deployment only that's affected.
Click to expand...

That's the party line, which I'm happy to parrot for now, although my confidence isn't exactly being supported.

Equilibria said:
The delivery of cars is on schedule, there will just be more of them entering service in the summer than was expected.
Click to expand...

Interesting way to phrase cars not coming online until later. It's like saying I won't get my paycheck next week, but I will get "more money than expected" in a month when I finally get that back money.
 
It seems to be a software issue that is holding things up.

But there have been cars sitting at Wellington for over a year. These constant delays are crazy and I wish the MBTA would be more transparent. The Orange Line needed new cars 10 years ago.
 
Coyote137 said:
Interesting way to phrase cars not coming online until later. It's like saying I won't get my paycheck next week, but I will get "more money than expected" in a month when I finally get that back money.
Click to expand...

That's not a great analogy for this, since these are initial test articles and not the mass of new vehicles that will really make a difference to people and that will enter service as scheduled. All we're missing out on here is the "OH! I SAW IT IN THE MIDDLE OF LAST NIGHT!" that's going on with the Green Line right now.

Delays of this type happen on literally every procurement - that's why you have the test articles. You test them and fix what doesn't work.

tysmith95 said:
It seems to be a software issue that is holding things up.

But there have been cars sitting at Wellington for over a year. These constant delays are crazy and I wish the MBTA would be more transparent. The Orange Line needed new cars 10 years ago.
Click to expand...


This is transparent. They're telling you exactly what's taking more time, what they're doing about it, and when they expect it to be done. How much more transparency do you want?
 
Jesus Christ!!

Are we ever going to see the NOL trains come to revenue service?!! This is ridiculous!! :mad:
 
Yesterday's report (which wasn't delivered as a presentation):

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/...9-03-25-fmcb-red-orange-update-accessible.pdf

I've been holding back on the electronic signage pile-on, but I can't anymore. This is a disgrace, and it it needs to be addressed in the four months they still have before they begin revenue service.

The photo in the PPT shows "MA Avenue". Never in my life have I see Massachusetts Avenue referred to that way in print (and obviously not verbally). The abbreviation - the only acceptable abbreviation if you're making wayfinding signs - is "Mass Ave", and given the width available on the sign you should be able to shrink the font a point and fit the whole station name in there.

I did a double-take when I saw that, and I know that MA is postal code for Massachusetts and that there is a street and an OL station called Massachusetts Avenue. If you're a non-English-speaking tourist and you don't know those things, you'll see the station go by and keep waiting for the mythical "MA Avenue".

I assume the issue here is that this was programmed in China by people without local knowledge (not impugning the ability of Chinese engineers to design good things, only their ability to use local jargon when doing it). Fortunately, it's essentially free to fix it, and while you're at it, the graphic design of that signage is absolutely awful. I know that it's not a safety or regulatory issue, but wayfinding is mission critical and the attractiveness of your graphics is a big part of your brand.
 
Equilibria said:
Yesterday's report (which wasn't delivered as a presentation):

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/...9-03-25-fmcb-red-orange-update-accessible.pdf

I've been holding back on the electronic signage pile-on, but I can't anymore. This is a disgrace, and it it needs to be addressed in the four months they still have before they begin revenue service.

The photo in the PPT shows "MA Avenue". Never in my life have I see Massachusetts Avenue referred to that way in print (and obviously not verbally). The abbreviation - the only acceptable abbreviation if you're making wayfinding signs - is "Mass Ave", and given the width available on the sign you should be able to shrink the font a point and fit the whole station name in there.

I did a double-take when I saw that, and I know that MA is postal code for Massachusetts and that there is a street and an OL station called Massachusetts Avenue. If you're a non-English-speaking tourist and you don't know those things, you'll see the station go by and keep waiting for the mythical "MA Avenue".

I assume the issue here is that this was programmed in China by people without local knowledge (not impugning the ability of Chinese engineers to design good things, only their ability to use local jargon when doing it). Fortunately, it's essentially free to fix it, and while you're at it, the graphic design of that signage is absolutely awful. I know that it's not a safety or regulatory issue, but wayfinding is mission critical and the attractiveness of your graphics is a big part of your brand.
Click to expand...

The scrolling "Destination is Forest Hill" under the "destination is Forest Hill" kills me
 
What's the point of spending 22 million to build a Red Line test track? Why can't you just test the trains overnight on existing tracks?
 
tysmith95 said:
What's the point of spending 22 million to build a Red Line test track? Why can't you just test the trains overnight on existing tracks?
Click to expand...

I would also likee to know where they were tested when the last order came in
 
tysmith95 said:
What's the point of spending 22 million to build a Red Line test track? Why can't you just test the trains overnight on existing tracks?
Click to expand...

First single order full RL fleet replacement in history is it not? That's a lot of trains to test. Definitely more efficient and cheaper to test during the day rather than paying overtime to test at night. Also if the OL is any indication, testing will start on the test track when the cars are first delivered, then move to overnight main tracks, then finally daytime main tracks before implementation. That allows for near 24 hr testing once delivery gets well underway with one set being test track tested during the day, another being overnight main line tested and another being daytime mainline tested.
 
Jahvon09 said:
Jesus Christ!!

Are we ever going to see the NOL trains come to revenue service?!! This is ridiculous!! :mad:
Click to expand...
We will. But the software has several glitches and need extra testing. We'll probably see these cars enter service in 2020.

What would you rather have? Delay after delay so that the T can fix the problem? Or the new OL cars fail on their first official service run? I agree. It's frustrating. Instead of blaming the T, I'd blame Alstom or CNR for cutting corners on the cars. The T is being as transparent as possible. They'll get here when they get here.
 
goody said:
I am with you, it is bad. Is there a way to submit comments?
Click to expand...

If you're really motivated, go to the next FMCB meeting where this is on the agenda. I think it's the same one each month, so the last week of April. The Board does a nice job of following up when someone is inspired to show up and talk to them about something.
 
kingofsheeba said:
We will. But the software has several glitches and need extra testing. We'll probably see these cars enter service in 2020.

What would you rather have? Delay after delay so that the T can fix the problem? Or the new OL cars fail on their first official service run? I agree. It's frustrating. Instead of blaming the T, I'd blame Alstom or CNR for cutting corners on the cars. The T is being as transparent as possible. They'll get here when they get here.
Click to expand...

That's a tough question actually. A deadline tends to focus efforts and failures on Day 1 are sometimes worth it if it means the issues are fixed faster than they would have otherwise... and then the fact that a failure gets through at all means the testing is inadequate and likely never would have found except for the real world test in the first place.

So, you are missing the third option, the one most likely, that we get a delay and we still have failures on their first official day of service. And the fourth option... that there is no delay and there are no failures because they get their shit together.
 
Equilibria said:
Yesterday's report (which wasn't delivered as a presentation):

https://cdn.mbta.com/sites/default/...9-03-25-fmcb-red-orange-update-accessible.pdf

I've been holding back on the electronic signage pile-on, but I can't anymore. This is a disgrace, and it it needs to be addressed in the four months they still have before they begin revenue service.

The photo in the PPT shows "MA Avenue". Never in my life have I see Massachusetts Avenue referred to that way in print (and obviously not verbally). The abbreviation - the only acceptable abbreviation if you're making wayfinding signs - is "Mass Ave", and given the width available on the sign you should be able to shrink the font a point and fit the whole station name in there.

I did a double-take when I saw that, and I know that MA is postal code for Massachusetts and that there is a street and an OL station called Massachusetts Avenue. If you're a non-English-speaking tourist and you don't know those things, you'll see the station go by and keep waiting for the mythical "MA Avenue".

I assume the issue here is that this was programmed in China by people without local knowledge (not impugning the ability of Chinese engineers to design good things, only their ability to use local jargon when doing it). Fortunately, it's essentially free to fix it, and while you're at it, the graphic design of that signage is absolutely awful. I know that it's not a safety or regulatory issue, but wayfinding is mission critical and the attractiveness of your graphics is a big part of your brand.
Click to expand...



Nice wealth of info!

But the MBTA, like someone else said, should've replace the old decrepit trains about 10 years ago! Why do they wait so long to replace old dilapidated equipment that that has been inconveniencing commuters for about 10 to 15 years before getting new stuff!!

This, I just can't see & is beyond me!! :eek:
 
They wasted practically no time in getting fares raised by July 1, but frigging can't seem to get the new trains into revenue service until around that time!!! Ridiculous!! :mad:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top