Crazy Transit Pitches

...Even if we wanted to send the Blue Line to Kendall (I'm not a fan of the idea because I don't see all that much gain over Red-Blue at Charles for a lot higher cost...

Ever ride a Red Line train to/from Kendall pre-pandemic? The thought of increasing passenger load w/ transfers from Blue is eye-watering. Granted RLT is supposed to increase capacity and reliability, but at best that bring us down from shocking Tokyo-level overpacked trains and waiting on crowded platforms as multiple trains pass to merely uncomfortably overpacked trains that you can probably get onto without throwing elbows. Kendall needs more transit capacity from somewhere other than the Red Line and it needed it a decade ago. Buses will be a big part of that, but additional HRT service is a better match to the capacity needed.

My personal preference would be to send the Blue Line from Charles/MGH to Kendall, then Central, Allston (hitting West Station somehow), and on to Watertown. I know that is a crayon drawing assertion with no plan for how to dig the thing, but hey this is Crazy Transit Pitches. That connects existing massive employment centers (Airport, Downtown, Kendall) with massive potential TOD centers (Suffolk Downs, Pike Straightened Allston, Watertown). It doesn't serve the same purpose as a riverbank subway, which parallels existing capacity. I personally see Regional Rail as the solution to increasing points-west to downtown Boston capacity.

We are a CBD with a strong center, but becoming more poly-centric with every passing year. Those off-center nodes need transit capacity. Otherwise we are doomed to car-centric development.
 
Ever ride a Red Line train to/from Kendall pre-pandemic? The thought of increasing passenger load w/ transfers from Blue is eye-watering. Granted RLT is supposed to increase capacity and reliability, but at best that bring us down from shocking Tokyo-level overpacked trains and waiting on crowded platforms as multiple trains pass to merely uncomfortably overpacked trains that you can probably get onto without throwing elbows. Kendall needs more transit capacity from somewhere other than the Red Line and it needed it a decade ago. Buses will be a big part of that, but additional HRT service is a better match to the capacity needed.

Well if you did Grand Junction (and it was done correctly) you might get a decent chunk of North Station riders to take that instead of going to Orange or Green.
 
Ever ride a Red Line train to/from Kendall pre-pandemic? The thought of increasing passenger load w/ transfers from Blue is eye-watering. Granted RLT is supposed to increase capacity and reliability, but at best that bring us down from shocking Tokyo-level overpacked trains and waiting on crowded platforms as multiple trains pass to merely uncomfortably overpacked trains that you can probably get onto without throwing elbows. Kendall needs more transit capacity from somewhere other than the Red Line and it needed it a decade ago. Buses will be a big part of that, but additional HRT service is a better match to the capacity needed.

...

We are a CBD with a strong center, but becoming more poly-centric with every passing year. Those off-center nodes need transit capacity. Otherwise we are doomed to car-centric development.

I'm curious whether you'd see modern LRT on Grand Junction as a suitable solution? Particularly if the LRT did wrap-arounds to North Station/Government Center to the north, and Kenmore to the south?
 
Ever ride a Red Line train to/from Kendall pre-pandemic? The thought of increasing passenger load w/ transfers from Blue is eye-watering. Granted RLT is supposed to increase capacity and reliability, but at best that bring us down from shocking Tokyo-level overpacked trains and waiting on crowded platforms as multiple trains pass to merely uncomfortably overpacked trains that you can probably get onto without throwing elbows. Kendall needs more transit capacity from somewhere other than the Red Line and it needed it a decade ago. Buses will be a big part of that, but additional HRT service is a better match to the capacity needed.

My personal preference would be to send the Blue Line from Charles/MGH to Kendall, then Central, Allston (hitting West Station somehow), and on to Watertown. I know that is a crayon drawing assertion with no plan for how to dig the thing, but hey this is Crazy Transit Pitches. That connects existing massive employment centers (Airport, Downtown, Kendall) with massive potential TOD centers (Suffolk Downs, Pike Straightened Allston, Watertown). It doesn't serve the same purpose as a riverbank subway, which parallels existing capacity. I personally see Regional Rail as the solution to increasing points-west to downtown Boston capacity.

We are a CBD with a strong center, but becoming more poly-centric with every passing year. Those off-center nodes need transit capacity. Otherwise we are doomed to car-centric development.
Don't forget we are getting a significant capacity boost on Red with the new trains and new signal system throughout the line (date WTFK?). I think the new capacity is 3 minute headway, so a lot more trains.
 
Don't forget we are getting a significant capacity boost on Red with the new trains and new signal system throughout the line (date WTFK?). I think the new capacity is 3 minute headway, so a lot more trains.

Right -- going from the pre-pandemic combined 4.5-min headway to a combined 3-min headway is an increase from 13 trains per hour to 20 trains per hour -- ~150% of current capacity.

The other thing to bear in mind -- particularly if Blue's Kendall station is around Volpe -- is that unless your extra service is accessible from the same/nearby platform, you don't get a straightforward capacity increase:
  1. Distanced platforms means that riders will need to commit to a line decision very early in the boarding process
  2. Distanced platforms means that agnostic riders -- those destined for Charles/MGH, Park, Government Center, State, DTX -- will still have to pick a line, even though either one will work for them. Given that Red will have 3-min headways and Blue (as far as I know) will have 5-min, you won't see an even split among agnostic riders, as some will prefer the higher-frequency service, meaning that Blue will be punching below its weight
  3. Distanced platforms mean that Red Line passengers from Central and further west will be less willing to change for Blue at Kendall, and will opt for an easier transfer at Charles/MGH -- again meaning that Blue will be punching below its weight
If someone can show me a plan to enable cross-platform transfers at Kendall, I'd get more excited.

At one point, I saw a "crush-load" graphic of Orange Line ridership, showing which segments are over capacity. Do we have such data for the Red Line?
 
I'm curious whether you'd see modern LRT on Grand Junction as a suitable solution? Particularly if the LRT did wrap-arounds to North Station/Government Center to the north, and Kenmore to the south?
No question. Allows multiple stops, connection with Sullivan, and a spur to Harvard with multiple stops. With a relatively moderate amount of work GJ could be attached to B and D to E completing the URban Ring concept for 50% of the ring
 
Right -- going from the pre-pandemic combined 4.5-min headway to a combined 3-min headway is an increase from 13 trains per hour to 20 trains per hour -- ~150% of current capacity.

The other thing to bear in mind -- particularly if Blue's Kendall station is around Volpe -- is that unless your extra service is accessible from the same/nearby platform, you don't get a straightforward capacity increase:
  1. Distanced platforms means that riders will need to commit to a line decision very early in the boarding process
  2. Distanced platforms means that agnostic riders -- those destined for Charles/MGH, Park, Government Center, State, DTX -- will still have to pick a line, even though either one will work for them. Given that Red will have 3-min headways and Blue (as far as I know) will have 5-min, you won't see an even split among agnostic riders, as some will prefer the higher-frequency service, meaning that Blue will be punching below its weight
  3. Distanced platforms mean that Red Line passengers from Central and further west will be less willing to change for Blue at Kendall, and will opt for an easier transfer at Charles/MGH -- again meaning that Blue will be punching below its weight
If someone can show me a plan to enable cross-platform transfers at Kendall, I'd get more excited.

At one point, I saw a "crush-load" graphic of Orange Line ridership, showing which segments are over capacity. Do we have such data for the Red Line?

You raise great points/questions. Simply for reference, the rough geography we'd be talking about. It seems to me the issues for RL-BL transfers as much about structural engineering considerations as distances: can we punch pedestrian tunnels through without serious structural challenges/cost?

RL-BL_kendall1.png
 
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You raise great points/questions. Simply for reference, the rough geography we'd be talking about. It seems to me the issues for RL-BL transfers as much about structural engineering considerations as distances: can we punch pedestrian tunnels through without serious structural challenges/cost?

View attachment 19375

So One Cambridge has air rights over an MBTA power substation adjacent to the South Kendall entrance. The remaining property/rights challenge is going under Broadway, which, for this thread, and in reality really, isn't that difficult to attain. Functionally and structurally, if possible, the substation could be moved to under Volpe, and the connection goes through the would-be former substation space. That would avoid a lot of the structural constraints. It's not easy to determine with sources online if the substation is entirely street level or partially subsurface/has a basement. That leaves the question of whether you have a connection that rises up from both RL and BL platforms to a new headhouse at the base of One Cambridge, or if it is possible to excavate down to be level with the existing and future platforms. It really depends on the elevation of the substation. The pictures and info I could find here don't really give 100% clarity.

You're also still left with the challenge of connecting to BL to inbound RL.
 
Well if you did Grand Junction (and it was done correctly) you might get a decent chunk of North Station riders to take that instead of going to Orange or Green.
The NSRL will easily take half of the Orange and Green line riders currently sardining between North Station and Back Bay nodes.
I assert this with supreme confidence from watching a decades worth of peak rush hour crowd behavior.
Boston Northside Commuters get off at NS and hop on the OL or GL depending on where they work (DTX or Back Bay with both, and a lot of Longwood traffic on the GL). Moreso when the weather sucks.
 
I'm curious whether you'd see modern LRT on Grand Junction as a suitable solution? Particularly if the LRT did wrap-arounds to North Station/Government Center to the north, and Kenmore to the south?

F-line posted before suggesting that the B branch of the green line would tunnel under commonwealth ave and link up with the grand junction at the bu bridge. At the other end it would link up with the union square branch at the other end of grand junction. Theres a few reasons why this makes sense for ops and flexibility but its pretty complicated to build.

I personally think at first they could get away with just branching off the union square branch and running at grade along the grand junction to west station.
284CCF9F-941B-4FE3-B737-2CCE6971ED48.jpeg

This would give commuter rail passengers a transfer at west station to take green to kendall. It would also give riders from downtown a ride to kendall as well with transfers from blue red and orange. Red already goes to kendall but the gj green line would have multiple stations throughout cambridge giving more options. There would also be a transfer in kendall from red to green to travel to the other stations or west station.

The connection with the B branch could be added in later after the line gets up and running, but this would be very simple to implement at first. This is what I think should be done with the gj line since an elevated line has buildings in the way overhead, a tunnel below gj has the red line tunnel in the way + fill and especially high cost. An electrified commuter train option also doesnt give it a route through downtown, and the trains are longer, slower, etc. At grade crossings wouldnt be bad with 2 car green trains passing quickly.
 
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This would give commuter rail passengers a transfer at west station to take green to kendall. It would also give riders from downtown a ride to kendall as well with transfers from blue red and orange. Red already goes to kendall but the gj green line would have multiple stations throughout cambridge giving more options. There would also be a transfer in kendall from red to green to travel to the other stations or west station.

I've not perused the latest in the smoldering dumpster fire that is the West Station project, so I'm not sure if the current plans even allow sufficient room for CR+LRT, so if someone knows the answer to that or can point me in the right direction that'd be appreciated.

West's status serving the Framingham/Worcester line means it's value as a transfer node from the CR mode is always going to be limited compared to the transfer stations that serve multiple lines (North, South, BBY). That's not a bad thing, but it does mean that it's harder for it to be load-bearing as a reason to build a transit connection. This is especially true where the benefit for Kendall access specifically is relatively limited; it's already a straight-shot transfer Worcester CR-to-Red at South to get to Kendall, though there would be improvements to Cambridge access beyond Kendall specifically from a GJ LRT connection at West Station. (Perhaps more valuable to the system overall is the fact that those riders would presumably be taken off Red's overloaded downtown segment, a nice relief valve for as long as Red has to handle itself and the Silver Line passengers who just get dumped there by that monstrosity never being properly completed.)

Probably wouldn't see that much ridership shifting from Orange, and only some from Blue (very little if Red-Blue to Charles gets built, more if it doesn't) and some from Green (specifically from whatever branch or branches got sent to the GJ) because the current pattern is so reliant on Red that it'd take quite a bit to overcome that built-in inertia, and the Green Line's overlapping service patterns means that a GJ-specific car through the Central Subway might well be a longer apparent (or actual) wait than Red at DTX or Park (as well as a likely longer ride). Northside CR riders (except Fitchburg if we had proper CR-subway fare integration) would benefit.

The connection with the B branch could be added in later after the line gets up and running, but this would be very simple to implement at first. This is what I think should be done with the gj line since an elevated line has buildings in the way overhead, a tunnel below gj has the red line tunnel in the way + fill and especially high cost. An electrified commuter train option also doesnt give it a route through downtown, and the trains are longer, slower, etc. At grade crossings wouldnt be bad with 2 car green trains passing quickly.

The state actually studied (non-EMU) Commuter Rail from Worcester over the Grand Junction when the guy whose name I can't remember from out that way was lieutenant governor. The results were...unfavorable. The grade crossing impacts were brutal on the RR mode because of FRA-mandated railroad priority, several of them physically could not be eliminated on that mode (Main Street probably can't be eliminated on any mode), and the resulting schedule possibilities were atrociously poor. I think the fact that fairly-cheap, relatively easy GJ revival was not taken up despite basically being a freebie for the then-lt. gov tells us enough about just how unsuitable the GJ is for passenger service (let alone one trying to emulate transit service).

A Green Line branch, as LRT, doesn't have the same crossing impacts (simple priority, assuming they don't botch that as badly as they have every other time it should have been done on the system, will suffice) and its ability to handle significantly-steeper grades makes the prospect of outright eliminating a couple of those crossings considerably more feasible. So, I think you're entirely correct to revive the argument that LRT is the clear best-fit option for GJ transit.

The one significant issue I have with your proposal (beyond quibbles about West Station proper) is operational. Lechmere to West Station via the GJ is very roughly equivalent in length to the Medford/Tufts branch of the GLX, which means we'd need yet more cars and extending yet another branch further. I'm not particularly opposed to that, I just don't think it makes sense to do it when the B-branch connection (while harder) gets a lot more value (especially if the northeast quadrant of the Urban Ring to Everett/Chelsea/Logan ever got built as LRT). I'm not saying that it shouldn't be done, but I do wonder whether it really makes sense as a standalone rather than having, say, the ability to access West and run back through to Kenmore and the Central Subway. (It's a good proposal, don't get me wrong, I just don't personally think that doing an easier project is a better choice than doing a harder, but more flexible and therefore beneficial project.)
 
I personally think at first they could get away with just branching off the union square branch and running at grade along the grand junction to west station.

This is a genius idea. I have two questions as follow ups.

1. Would this kill the frequencies to Union Square or are we adding more trainsets for this new branch?
2. How are we getting from the northside of the Fitchburg line to the southside of it again? I think we brought it up somewhere either here or in the Green Line Reconfiguration thread, but my google-fu skills are escaping me at the moment.
 
1. Would this kill the frequencies to Union Square or are we adding more trainsets for this new branch?

More trainsets would be an absolute requirement. Building this without them wouldn't just kill Union Square frequencies, it'd harm them across the whole line (or at least the whole of whichever branch or branches got saddled with it) because of the extra time and distance they'd have to run. Could mitigate it somewhat by bumping up the number of Brattle Loop short-turns, but that's a little bit of a kludge and an inferior option to more cars.

2. How are we getting from the northside of the Fitchburg line to the southside of it again? I think we brought it up somewhere either here or in the Green Line Reconfiguration thread, but my google-fu skills are escaping me at the moment.

Cutting under the Fitchburg. F-Line seemed to suggest that it would be possible to go from the GJ alignment onto the GLX incline, but looking at the Google images I'm not so sure that an LRT GJ cut could ramp-up fast enough from under the Fitchburg back to surface level in time to join the GLX incline. It's not the end of the world if you can't; available options include potentially modifying the GLX ramp or the potentially easier route of clipping the parking lot on the southwest corner of the GJ-Fitchburg junction to gain the extra space. It does look like there's probably enough room with LRT grades to make it fit.
 
One snag is that the GL-X to Grand Junction connection is complicated by having to not only deal with Fitchburg, but also the constraints of the McGrath Highway bridge being right on top of the whole thing.

It's not an impossible fix but probably will be fairly expensive no matter how you do it. Green can't go over Fitchburg because of McGrath, and going under it will be tight given how little space there is between the ramp and the junction itself.
 
One snag is that the GL-X to Grand Junction connection is complicated by having to not only deal with Fitchburg, but also the constraints of the McGrath Highway bridge being right on top of the whole thing.

It's not an impossible fix but probably will be fairly expensive no matter how you do it. Green can't go over Fitchburg because of McGrath, and going under it will be tight given how little space there is between the ramp and the junction itself.

I suspect it might well require taking some of the parking lot of the building on the southwest corner of the Grand Junction turnout, but that's a guess on my part.
 
Speaking of which, here is my layout for BLX to Watertown Square. The section of SFR and Storrow Drive from Allston interchange to Arlington Street is removed and the BLX uses that ROW, except when the line swings over to Kenmore Square in a tunnel.

The Google Map to zoom in on is at https://www.google.com/maps/d/u/0/edit?hl=en&mid=1zrQrXdI1DAHktQyYwmrPwXpk06ebjvfE&ll=42.35559093450284,-71.14104094207886&z=13

Here's a photo of the Google Map. Light blue is tunnel, yellow is surface and red is elevated. The red markers are stations..
51782961712_c3233f2ecb_o.jpg
 
The section of SFR and Storrow Drive from Allston interchange to Arlington Street is removed and the BLX uses that ROW, except when the line swings over to Kenmore Square in a tunnel.

Surface HRT behind the Beacon Street brownstones and doing nothing about the Esplanade riverfront being cut off from the Back Bay isn't likely to go over all that well. (I personally prefer F-Line's idea of a new tunnel covered up by a re-worked embankment that would also help mitigate potential Back Bay flood issues in the future.)

I'm curious as to what the impact of culling SFR in the vicinity of Beacon Park/BU Bridge would be. I know F-Line's Riverbank discussion talked about ways to mitigate BLX taking the Storrow section between the Hatch Shell and Kenmore, but I don't recall if there was discussion of what would happen if that chunk of SFR went as well. I also feel like it'd be a nightmare trying to shiv yet another mode through the throat into Beacon Park/West Station (but then again maybe I've just spent too long in the I-90 Interchange thread).

Apart from those comments, I kind of like this as a way of replacing the late A-branch and maybe putting some relief on the B, without the kind of surface running that a resurrected A would need. Definitely still in the vicinity of Crazy Transit Pitches due to the complexity, but interesting nonetheless.
 
Surface HRT behind the Beacon Street brownstones and doing nothing about the Esplanade riverfront being cut off from the Back Bay isn't likely to go over all that well. (I personally prefer F-Line's idea of a new tunnel covered up by a re-worked embankment that would also help mitigate potential Back Bay flood issues in the future.)

I'm curious as to what the impact of culling SFR in the vicinity of Beacon Park/BU Bridge would be. I know F-Line's Riverbank discussion talked about ways to mitigate BLX taking the Storrow section between the Hatch Shell and Kenmore, but I don't recall if there was discussion of what would happen if that chunk of SFR went as well. I also feel like it'd be a nightmare trying to shiv yet another mode through the throat into Beacon Park/West Station (but then again maybe I've just spent too long in the I-90 Interchange thread).

Apart from those comments, I kind of like this as a way of replacing the late A-branch and maybe putting some relief on the B, without the kind of surface running that a resurrected A would need. Definitely still in the vicinity of Crazy Transit Pitches due to the complexity, but interesting nonetheless.
F-Line's idea of a new tunnel covered up by a re-worked embankment could be implemented into my layout easily, for the segment from Mass Ave to the existing tunnel portal near Dartmouth Street.

As for closing SFR/Storrow from Cambridge Street (in Allston) to the Hatch Shell, yes it would be an impact on traffic. But it boils down to what will Boston be working towards: auto-centric or transit-centric. I would opt for an HRT Blue Line with a widened riverside esplanade rather than perpetuate a 1950s Robert Moses vision of expressways through a park. That includes the Charlesgate overpass and its spaghetti interchange with SFR as well. Get rid of them all and beef up the transit system with this BLX extension to help make up for the loss of expressway lanes.

For the West Station, space will be tight whether an LRV line comes in from the Grand Junction ROW, or my proposed BLX route comes in, or both. One option is to route the BLX on an elevated structure one level up from the West Station, and possibly over Cambridge Street as well if need be.
 
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As for closing SFR/Storrow from Cambridge Street (in Allston) to the Hatch Shell, yes it would be an impact on traffic. But it boils down to what will Boston be working towards: auto-centric or transit-centric. I would opt for an HRT Blue Line with a widened riverside esplanade rather than perpetuate a 1950s Robert Moses vision of expressways through a park. That includes the Charlesgate overpass and its spaghetti interchange with SFR as well. Get rid of them all and beef up the transit system with this BLX extension to help make up for the loss of expressway lanes.

I generally agree. I think my real question was a very technical wondering about the impact (because while I don't recall the specifics, I know F-Line suggested provisions for absorbing the lost Storrow capacity on the Pike, and since the SFR section was out-of-scope on Riverbank-to-Kenmore I don't think there was any similar discussion). It'd obviously be part of the project if we built something like this, but that doesn't mean we need all the answers right now (especially if a goal is to simply eliminate some road capacity for its own sake in favor of transit).

For the West Station, space will be tight whether an LRV line comes in from the Grand Junction ROW, or my proposed BLX route comes in, or both. One option is to route the BLX on an elevated structure one level up from the West Station, and possibly over Cambridge Street as well if need be.

LRT over the GJ would replace the RR mode that's already provisioned-for through there, so BLX would be on top of GJ in any event (because if it's not LRT, no way does the T give it up for the sake of BLX space, even if CSX were dumb enough to let them). That said, while I agree that there's certainly technical solutions, I was more thinking that trying to run yet another thing through that throat section would be a political/public/stakeholder nightmare moreso than specifically an unsurmountable engineering obstacle. (I'd go for the elevated version there myself; the views of the Charles would be very nice.)
 

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