General MBTA Topics (Multi Modal, Budget, MassDOT)

First day of reopening the Green Line between Copley and Babcock Street. 3 hours after restoring revenue service.

Green Line streetcar derails in a section of track that was repaired 3 hours ago.

Perhaps reimplement slow zones? Track was not actually fixed? Damage to rails?

No info yet, but this derailment seems really bad considering the shutdown just ended 3 hours prior, and this is their 4th shutdown affecting the Green Line trunk since November.

Green line trunk seems to be broken promise after promise. The 2nd and 3rd shutdowns promised 8.7 minutes of time savings. It resulted in less than a minute of savings, and not all slow zones between North Sta. and Gov't Ctr were fixed. Now after a 4th shutdown, comes a derailment 3 hours after reopening.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766469610340008377

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766485509256221047

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Delvin4519 said:
First day of reopening the Green Line between Copley and Babcock Street. 3 hours after restoring revenue service.

Green Line streetcar derails in a section of track that was repaired 3 hours ago.

Perhaps reimplement slow zones? Track was not actually fixed? Damage to rails?

No info yet, but this derailment seems really bad considering the shutdown just ended 3 hours prior, and this is their 4th shutdown affecting the Green Line trunk since November.

Green line trunk seems to be broken promise after promise. The 2nd and 3rd shutdowns promised 8.7 minutes of time savings. It resulted in less than a minute of savings, and not all slow zones between North Sta. and Gov't Ctr were fixed. Now after a 4th shutdown, comes a derailment 3 hours after reopening.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766469610340008377

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766485509256221047

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Are you sure it must be a track fault (and thus "broken promise"), and not a problem with the vehicles, especially the derailment-prone Type 8s?
 
I'd also like to challenge the notion that the earlier Green Line shutdowns are ineffective or resulted in almost no time savings:

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During the most recent shutdown, highlighted in red, this section (Copley to Haymarket) only has the E branch running as opposed to all 4 branches. There seems to be a notable reduction during this period. This seems to suggest that the lack of travel time reductions during earlier periods may be more of a result of congestion in the Central Subway and irregularities, as opposed to speed restrictions.

The opposite direction (Haymarket to Copley) is not nearly as notable during this period, though there still seems to be a slight reduction. However, note that dwell times have increased in both directions (likely due to the higher load per vehicle), which may offset the faster trips between stations. This direction also still has a slow zone around Haymarket.
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I think the consensus on the green line lately has been that there's already a lot of variability and other issues it has, and that operators were not always respecting speed restrictions, so projected time savings are not always seen right away. They need to do the track repairs either way, whether or not it lifts speed restrictions.
 
Teban54 said:
Are you sure it must be a track fault (and thus "broken promise"), and not a problem with the vehicles, especially the derailment-prone Type 8s?
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If a type 8 derails on tracks that were repaired and renewed 3 hours prior, wouldn't that mean a permanent speed restriction is needed to prevent future derailments?

The 10 MPH (16 KMH) speed restriction at East Somerville and Northeastern University seem like a stretch. Shouldn't the East Somerville and Northeastern switches be able to handle 25 MPH (40 KMH) speeds? Also what about the stop sign at the tunnel entrence to North Station from Science Park? Is that also really needed? Plus what about restoring 50 MPH (80 KMH) speeds on the D branch and GLX pre-2008 derailment?
 
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Teban54 said:
I'd also like to challenge the notion that the earlier Green Line shutdowns are ineffective or resulted in almost no time savings:

View attachment 48424
During the most recent shutdown, highlighted in red, this section (Copley to Haymarket) only has the E branch running as opposed to all 4 branches. There seems to be a notable reduction during this period. This seems to suggest that the lack of travel time reductions during earlier periods may be more of a result of congestion in the Central Subway and irregularities, as opposed to speed restrictions.

The opposite direction (Haymarket to Copley) is not nearly as notable during this period, though there still seems to be a slight reduction. However, note that dwell times have increased in both directions (likely due to the higher load per vehicle), which may offset the faster trips between stations. This direction also still has a slow zone around Haymarket.
View attachment 48425
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I've just refreshed the LMA (E Branch) - Haymarket (EB) full graph from 2016. It seems to have a smidge faster over the course of the past 3 weeks, but not by much. I'm seeing only 15 second gains at best for the whole trip eastbound from Longwood Medical (E Branch) to Haymarket. Plus, it's still not even back to pre March-2023 speeds even the past 7 days, still 15 - 20 seconds slower compared to pre-March 2023 systemwide slowdowns.

(Data source: TransitMatters data dashboard, data downloads, data smoothed with 7 day average for all data downloads from TM data dashboard)

1710004493166.png
 
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Delvin4519 said:
If a type 8 derails on tracks that were repaired and renewed 3 hours prior, wouldn't that mean a permanent speed restriction is needed to prevent future derailments?

The 10 MPH (16 KMH) speed restriction at East Somerville and Northeastern University seem like a stretch. Shouldn't the East Somerville and Northeastern switches be able to handle 25 MPH (40 KMH) speeds? Also what about the stop sign at the tunnel entrence to North Station from Science Park? Is that also really needed?
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I think the implication of that user's comment (not to speak for them) was that it's an artifact of the train itself that it derails, as in its due to the age of the train / a design flaw. Obviously we don't know yet the reason for the derailment. But the age of the track itself may not be the issue.

I believe people were saying on this board that the stop sign is due to concerns about the trains braking ability on that incline, not due to tracks. I agree it's unfortunate that there's an unlisted speed restriction near science park.
 
Yeah, the problem is that I don't think anyone has any ideas where the Type 8s are likely to derail. If permanent speed restrictions are set up at Kenmore just because of this, then by the same logic, you should also have permanent speed restrictions on the entire Green Line (or at least at all switches and tight curves), which I'm sure nobody wants. This is not necessarily due to the track.
 
Teban54 said:
Yeah, the problem is that I don't think anyone has any ideas where the Type 8s are likely to derail. If permanent speed restrictions are set up at Kenmore just because of this, then by the same logic, you should also have permanent speed restrictions on the entire Green Line (or at least at all switches and tight curves), which I'm sure nobody wants. This is not necessarily due to the track.
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Were the GL switches always limited to 10 MPH prior to the type 8 introductions, or did the Green Line switches used to be able to support higher speeds through switches prior to type 8 introductions? This seems like something where the T decided to permanently slow down the entire Green Line to 10 MPH at switches, after the type 8's constant derailments a while back long ago (as well as slowing the D branch from 50 MPH to 40 MPH after 2008). (IIRC from other AB posts)
 
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www.bostonglobe.com

MBTA Green Line service resumes after derailment near Kenmore - The Boston Globe

Green Line service resumed early Saturday evening, hours after a westbound Green Line trolley derailed west of the platform at Kenmore station just before 9 a.m., the MBTA said.
www.bostonglobe.com www.bostonglobe.com

Paywalled. No paywall bypass (I can find yet)

Green Line streetcar derails at 8:00 a.m. in the morning. No service until nearly 5 p.m. in the evening (bare minimum estimate, may be extended longer), so essentially the 3 week-long Green Line shutdown was unofficially extended by another day.

The derailment occured just west of the Kenmore platform on the B branch.

No word on track conditions from the provided statement. I suppose they need to remove the streetcar first before they can inspect the track and if the tracks need additional repairs or speed limit changes.

EDIT: Green Line service is resuming as of 5:30 p.m., this means the Green Line was offline for 9 hours total.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1766588308467888561
 
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Predictably, it was a Type 8 (#3819) that derailed. Looked like it derailed right on the switch just east of Kenmore on the westbound. The speed over that switch was 6 mi/h pre-shutdown. I was the first C train to take the Kenmore loop, and based off the crowd of confused people, I was either the first or second train period to take the Kenmore loop (and if I was the second, that means the first train - a D from Riverside - did a bad job of informing their passengers as to the situation). The exasperation of some of the passengers, as well as myself, was understandable... and because of the emergency nature of the situation meaning delays in dispatching buses, I took it upon myself to suggest BlueBikes as an alternative rather than wait for the shuttle buses. (The CR at Lansdowne would have been something like 90 minutes from then.) I myself took a BlueBike after my shift to get from Kenmore to Back Bay.
 
Rode a type 9 to Kenmore and things were smooth and fast. I noticed at the station they put in new gravel on the outer westbound tracks. So much so that it seems like the train wheels smashed some of the rocks up. There’s also this break in the tracks which I assume is normal but seemed a little large.
 

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Longfellow said:
Rode a type 9 to Kenmore and things were smooth and fast. I noticed at the station they put in new gravel on the outer westbound tracks. So much so that it seems like the train wheels smashed some of the rocks up. There’s also this break in the tracks which I assume is normal but seemed a little large.
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That’s interesting, is the Green Line the only line that doesn’t have continuous welded rail?
 
Also worth noting from the press release

Additionally, a thorough inspection confirms no relation exists between this Green Line work and the derailment that occurred on Saturday, March 9, near Kenmore Station.

The post-derailment inspection corroborated the results from the post-diversion testing, confirming that the switches were functioning without any defects, that all track and switch replacement work was successfully accomplished, and that the replaced track and switches are performing well. The investigation into the cause of the derailment is now isolated to the incident car itself.
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Compared to the so many other issues, this is a nice story. A café by Shawmut station that sounds like it's a nice café. The land is own by the Epiphany School that happen to have a kiosk available after being built for an entirely different purpose.

The MBTA should be doing more to lease spots out to small businesses, maybe even allow them to take care of certain corners of stations. For example, I wouldn't be surprise if a retail business occupies vacant storefront in Porter Station, they would do a better job cleaning away the pigeon poop and the bathroom. Sadly I got a feeling a major reason this café manages to exist is because the land is own by Epiphany rather than the MBTA;

wbznewsradio.iheart.com

T Riders And Teachers Get A Buzz From A Café Kiosk Near Shawmut Station | WBZ NewsRadio 1030

House of Seven Café near the Shawmut MBTA station in Dorchester provides the caffeine needs to passing commuters and locals. WBZ NewsRadio's Chaiel Schaffel spoke with the kiosk's owner.
wbznewsradio.iheart.com wbznewsradio.iheart.com
 
ant8904 said:
Compared to the so many other issues, this is a nice story. A café by Shawmut station that sounds like it's a nice café. The land is own by the Epiphany School that happen to have a kiosk available after being built for an entirely different purpose.

The MBTA should be doing more to lease spots out to small businesses, maybe even allow them to take care of certain corners of stations. For example, I wouldn't be surprise if a retail business occupies vacant storefront in Porter Station, they would do a better job cleaning away the pigeon poop and the bathroom. Sadly I got a feeling a major reason this café manages to exist is because the land is own by Epiphany rather than the MBTA;

wbznewsradio.iheart.com

T Riders And Teachers Get A Buzz From A Café Kiosk Near Shawmut Station | WBZ NewsRadio 1030

House of Seven Café near the Shawmut MBTA station in Dorchester provides the caffeine needs to passing commuters and locals. WBZ NewsRadio's Chaiel Schaffel spoke with the kiosk's owner.
wbznewsradio.iheart.com wbznewsradio.iheart.com
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Yeah - I'd point to Tokyo's system which has had 3 Star Michelin restaurants inside it, but really, just need to point to NYC and how there are a ton of magazine stands/coffee/etc which are super convenient even on platforms to grab something quick and not worry about missing a train. I've always thought there could be a really cool restaurant row in the Winter Street concourse. Things like that would also drive ridership and if good enough, even get people to pay a fare to get in just to get something to eat.
 
Delvin4519 said:
Here is an update regarding the MBTA bus service/operator shortage and the MBTA's efforts to resolve this issue as of February 2024:

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February-March 2024 update on the bus service/bus operator shortage at the T:

DateCountVacantChange% of pre-COVID maxMax count
5/2/20231,622201N/A88.97%1,823
6/29/20231,611212-1188.37%1,823
7/26/20231,548368 (275 pre COVID)-63 (-93)84.91% (80.79% BNRD)1,916
8/30/20231,559357 (264 pre COVID)+1185.51% (81.36% BNRD)1,916
10/4/20231,572295 (251 pre COVID)+13 (+49)86.23% (84.19% BNRD)1,867**
10/23/20231,644223 (179 pre COVID)+7290.18% (88.05% BNRD)1,867**
11/28/20231,642225 (181 pre COVID)-290.07% (87.94% BNRD)1,867**
12/29/20231,635***232 (188 pre COVID)***-7***89.68% (87.57% BNRD)****1,867**
1/25/20241,697***170 (126 pre COVID)***+62***93.08% (90.89% BNRD)****1,867**
2/23/20241,714***153 (109 pre COVID)***+17***94.02% (91.80% BNRD)****1,867**

****/***The formula the MBTA used to calculate bus vacancies has been changed again this January, to exclude in trainees from the operational count (those in training will now be included in vacancies). No changes to historical data was provided by the MBTA, meaning the data since December 29, 2023 is not directly compariable with May - November data.

**Updated figure from the Boston Globe
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bakgwailo said:
Yeah - I'd point to Tokyo's system which has had 3 Star Michelin restaurants inside it, but really, just need to point to NYC and how there are a ton of magazine stands/coffee/etc which are super convenient even on platforms to grab something quick and not worry about missing a train. I've always thought there could be a really cool restaurant row in the Winter Street concourse. Things like that would also drive ridership and if good enough, even get people to pay a fare to get in just to get something to eat.
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I had exactly the same thought about the Winter Street Concourse and the Downtown Crossing concourse as well.
 
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