This area has great potential, I would think they would need to enhance the pedestrian connection to the train station around that existing residential building since that is one of the main purposes for relocating the busses to this area. Something similar that was built at TG Green. - https://flyri.com/passengers/interlink/
Kennedy Plaza Redesign & RIPTA Multi-Hub Proposal | Providence
- Thread starter Riverside
- Start date
About a week or two ago, RIPTA and its consultant released a new report that documents the preliminary results of their site evaluation process for a new mixed-use transit center.
They’ve narrowed their search to two sites, one on either side of the train station:
The Francis Street site is a late-breaking addition to the mix. The fact that the railroad tracks pass underneath would make building a multi-story, mixed-use, indoor transit center more complicated, so I wouldn’t be surprised if its last-minute inclusion signals a pivot towards a more conventional, transit-only project. A Providence Journal article quoted RIPTA CEO Chris Durand as saying:
Proximity to the train station is definitely a plus. The appendices to the report have some interesting discussion about how the train station-adjacent sites are easily accessible for routes coming from the south, east, and west, but not the north. Those northern routes would continue to terminate at Kennedy Plaza. But that too could change: the main report says RIPTA has been talking with Amtrak about connecting Gaspee and Railroad Streets on either side of the station.
They’ve narrowed their search to two sites, one on either side of the train station:
The Francis Street site is a late-breaking addition to the mix. The fact that the railroad tracks pass underneath would make building a multi-story, mixed-use, indoor transit center more complicated, so I wouldn’t be surprised if its last-minute inclusion signals a pivot towards a more conventional, transit-only project. A Providence Journal article quoted RIPTA CEO Chris Durand as saying:
Proximity to the train station is definitely a plus. The appendices to the report have some interesting discussion about how the train station-adjacent sites are easily accessible for routes coming from the south, east, and west, but not the north. Those northern routes would continue to terminate at Kennedy Plaza. But that too could change: the main report says RIPTA has been talking with Amtrak about connecting Gaspee and Railroad Streets on either side of the station.
The easy connectivity from Kennedy Plaza to Park Row W to N Main Street makes me think the Park Row W site would be better suited to tie into multiple routes. I would also go as far as saying Railroad Street should be Bus/Peds/Bikes only with the lone caveat of parking garage access (personnel vehicles not allowed beyond the garage entrance/exit). This would eliminate the complexity of building over the train tunnel and possibly some headaches with building directly adjacent to the State Capital (though Park Row W isn't that much out of the way of the Capital).About a week or two ago, RIPTA and its consultant released a new report that documents the preliminary results of their site evaluation process for a new mixed-use transit center.
They’ve narrowed their search to two sites, one on either side of the train station:
The Francis Street site is a late-breaking addition to the mix. The fact that the railroad tracks pass underneath would make building a multi-story, mixed-use, indoor transit center more complicated, so I wouldn’t be surprised if its last-minute inclusion signals a pivot towards a more conventional, transit-only project. A Providence Journal article quoted RIPTA CEO Chris Durand as saying:
Proximity to the train station is definitely a plus. The appendices to the report have some interesting discussion about how the train station-adjacent sites are easily accessible for routes coming from the south, east, and west, but not the north. Those northern routes would continue to terminate at Kennedy Plaza. But that too could change: the main report says RIPTA has been talking with Amtrak about connecting Gaspee and Railroad Streets on either side of the station.
The MBTA can send their bloated bus berths from West Station here! (joking)
From a site access standpoint, I could see bus access coming from the Park Row West townhomes and exiting on to Railroad Street with maybe some activation along Railroad Street.
Of course I thought of this before dropping myself into street view and realizing the large grade difference.
I'd have to think how to accommodate grade difference more.
nicanbot
Active Member
- Joined
- Jun 18, 2019
- Messages
- 175
- Reaction score
- 245
I like the proximity to the train station, but the train tracks run beneath most of that parcel. I can’t imagine it will be cheap to build on top of them (and the fact that nothing has been built here yet might be an indicator).
Maybe it won’t be so expensive as long as it’s just surface pavement and bus shelters? A few posts up, I quoted RIPTA’s CEO with a comment that suggested TOD may not be in the cards. This site could be a sign they have in fact given up on that aspect of the project?
Maybe it won’t be so expensive as long as it’s just surface pavement and bus shelters? A few posts up, I quoted RIPTA’s CEO with a comment that suggested TOD may not be in the cards. This site could be a sign they have in fact given up on that aspect of the project?
Frankie811
Active Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 298
- Reaction score
- 233
I believe that you are mistaken concerning the location of the tracks. The tracks run below the station & below the large parcel of land across from the Providence Place Mall, which is why it was never developed. And what a big mistake that was.
That is the site they are now looking into
Frankie811
Active Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 298
- Reaction score
- 233
No, it's not. The land across from the PPM cannot be developed because of the numerous utilities underneath. The land that they're looking at is East of the train station, which is near Park Row West/Railroad St & Stillman St. The parcel is behind the apartments/condos on Canal St.
The article @nicanbot posted last week in Post #24 says the following just before the paywall:
“The Rhode Island Public Transit Authority will pay a consortium working on the bus hub idea $250,000 to do an "in-depth evaluation and structural feasibility" study of building a bus hub on the lawn between the Providence Place mall and Providence train station.”
I agree that it would be a very complex and costly site to develop, maybe even to the point of infeasibility, but that is definitely the site they are looking at right now, not the one on the other side of the station.
Actually, it looks like the study is focusing specifically on the Francis St. parcel. RIPTA said as much in their 12/17 update (which is almost certainly what triggered the ProJo article).
It's not impossible to build on the Francis St. lot. But the tracks underneath obviously do complicate any development on that site and could potentially push the cost to a point where it's just not feasible. It looks like this study investigate exactly what it would take to make it happen. It does appear that they're also still looking at Park Row as a "preferred site," (direct from RIPTA's website) but that feasibility study is specifically for the Francis St. location.
Frankie811
Active Member
- Joined
- May 15, 2008
- Messages
- 298
- Reaction score
- 233
Yeah, studying the Google Maps aerial, it's quite clear that the tracks and all their associated infrastructure easements/complications, underlay a very significant portion of the lawn's overall footprint.
That said--and not to wander off onto an excessive tangent--but this is another reason why electrification is so urgent. The diesel emissions that emanate from those vents (visible right below the "Park" in "Station Park" label) are doubly-polluting--in the noxious, carcinogenic sense, and also noise-wise. On a still day, they are loud--you can hear their rumbling as soon as you exit the mall--well over 100 yards away.
Imagine how much more palatable a mixed-use development (including a new bus station) there would be to deep-pocketed residential developers willing to partner with RIDOT, if the diesel-related site encumbrances were eliminated...
Francis St Makes the most sense, main road, infrastructure in place, in vicinity of train station, just sustain the view of the State house and it'll be fine. Park Row would be a nightmare. Its already tight if you're picking up/dropping off for the Train Station at certain times, plus I'm sure residents at the adjacent development wouldn't be too welcoming to the idea (if you're familiar with the activities in Kennedy Plaza now).
Its certainly not impossible to build over tracks (ie Hudson yards in Manhattan build over subway rail yard). Add a mixed use building as proposed a decade ago and its a nice fit. Kennedy Plaza can be redeveloped into additional public green space/event space/mixed use. bada boom bada bing.
Its certainly not impossible to build over tracks (ie Hudson yards in Manhattan build over subway rail yard). Add a mixed use building as proposed a decade ago and its a nice fit. Kennedy Plaza can be redeveloped into additional public green space/event space/mixed use. bada boom bada bing.
Oh, you can hear them from much further away than that. On most of my morning walks to the train, when road traffic is light, I can hear them clearly from North Main/Smith (by RW National Memorial Visitor's Center). I've heard them from further away as well, but that corner is where I almost always hear them idling regardless of weather conditions. They're loud anyway, but I think the tunnel acts as almost a megaphone.
But yes, electrifying this corridor should have a huge impact on potential development. The lack of electrification on the Providence line is even more frustrating since the infrastructure is literally already in place.