Transit Planning $h!tposting (Ideas so bad, they're good)

[Teban54]

Blue Line:

• Maverick -> Jeffries Point

On one hand, yes, there are plenty of reasons to change Maverick given the undesirable history of its namesake colonist (and that's putting it lightly). And if we're set on renaming it, then Jeffries Point is a "safe" option.

On the other hand:

• Despite its origin, the name Maverick has taken on more of a "placemaking" role rather than a commemorative role. The area has apparently been officially named Maverick Square.
• "Jeffries Point" refers to a pretty broad region with a large east-west span. In fact, the 120 bus is signed "Jeffries Point", which refers to the loop it makes east of Maverick station.

Some alternative names for Maverick:

• Scarmella: This is my top choice, primarily because the square itself has apparently been renamed "Scarmella/Maverick Square". Both Google Maps and a City of Boston planning map have indicated it as such.
• Lewis Mall or Lewis Wharf: Named after the pier within a 4-min walk from the station, which runs regular ferries to downtown Boston.

Silver Line:

• SLW -> Eastport

My personal favorite to replace SLW is Starboard Way:

• It's the actual name of a road, right at the SLW station
• The name is similar enough to Silver Line Way, such that if the line is no longer branded Silver Line, people can still get the general connection between the old and new names
• And, perhaps most importantly, the name sounds cool as hell

 

[The EGE]

In general, I've soured on naming things after people - morality shifts over time, and most people do both good and bad things. (In particular I hate naming stations in honor of people - unless the name is (or is intended to be) the name of the area, it doesn't give any clue to where it is.) That's not to say that we have to rename everything, or never name anything after someone, but it's worth occasional re-evaluation of names prominently attached to places. Those in the Boston area I'd strongly like to see renamed are:

• Lechmere Square / Lechmere station: slave owner (and, less awful but rather odd for the region, a Loyalist during the Revolutionary War). "Cambridge Crossing" or "East Cambridge" would be fine for the station.
• Maverick Square / Maverick station: as discussed above. (Also, who or what is Scarmella? I can't find anything.) One potential neutral name would be "Meridian".
• Audubon Circle: scientific racism, likely plagarism and scientific misconduct. Fenway station needs a better name, but not "Aubudon Circle".
• Columbia Road: Columbus was a genocidal maniac. I'd go with "Harbor Point/UMass" for the station.
• Washington Street / Washington Square / etc: Founding Father or not, he owned slaves. (Incidentally, John Adams and John Quincy Adams were the only of the first 12 presidents who didn't own slaves.)

Our own Riverside discussed some of these a while back and suggested some good potential renames.

This sent me down a rabbit hole of the namesakes of the various subway stations which I've posted here.

 

[The EGE]

Some other name changes I agree with (from this thread and others):

• East Somerville → Brickbottom: Better placemaking; East Somerville also includes a lot that's closer to Sullivan Square.
• Silver Line Way → Starboard Way (or Pavilion, or something else): anything to make it a useful name
• World Trade Center → BCEC (or maybe BCEC/World Trade Center): BCEC is at least as big a draw as the WTC
• Courthouse → Fan Pier: There are other major courthouses close to T stops, including the Suffolk County Superior Court (GC) and Suffolk Family and Probate (Haymarket) plus a number of district courts. "Fan Pier" is unique and better encapsulates the neighborhood.
• Design Center → literally anything else. Technically it's "Design Center Place", but that's still confusing, since 23 Drydock and 27 Drydock are the stops that actually serve most of the building. There's a lot that needs rethought about the SL2 loop - the stops are substandard, the Cruiseport is poorly served, and the layovers awkwardly interrupt a lot of trips.
• Washington Street → Commonwealth Heights: the person aside, there are so many stops on or at Washington Streets. This would be unique.
• West Station → Beacon Park. Please, for the love of everything good, give this station a real name. It's not going to be the equivalent of North Station or South Station.
• Boston Landing → Allston/Brighton: "Allston Yards" is too close to "Beacon Park Yard"; "Allston/Brighton" is better for the whole neighborhood it serves.
• Newton Street → Blackstone Square

Ones I'm on the fence / meh about:

• All the other SL stops on Washington. None of them are bad, but I'm not sure if they're more recognizable.
• Arlington → Public Garden: mildly better for wayfinding, but the current name is fine
• Babcock → Agganis
• Riverway → Leverett Pond: Maybe if you didn't have to cross all the Jamaicaway ramps to get there. (I would consider calling it Jamaicaway rather than Riverway, though, since it's the only stop near the Jamaicaway but not the Riverway)
• Fenway → The Fens: Good way to lessen confusion with Fenway Park, but it's not actually that near the main body of the Fens.
• Summit Avenue → Corey Hill: the combined Fairbanks/Brandon Hall station would just as easily suit this name.
• Sutherland Road → Aberdeen
• Gilman Square → Winter Hill: I know Winter Hill was the historic station name, but the Broadway bus corridor more serves the hill itself.
• Cleveland Circle → Beacon Loop: Cleveland wasn't the worst president, but not great either. It's not a circle any more, but neither is it a loop.
• Chelsea → Mystic Mall: I get the reasoning, but it's weird to not have the Chelsea station on commuter rail called Chelsea.

Ones I definitely disagree with:

• Kendall/MIT → Kendall: until there's actual Grand Junction transit, this is still the main stop for MIT.
• Wellington → Mystic Landing: Wellington has been the neighborhood name for 150+ years. The station needs better connections to the neighborhood, not the name of generic TOD.
• Maverick → Jefferies Point: While this station should definitely be renamed, Jefferies Point
• Broadway → Fort Point: Fort Point has always been centered more around Summer Street. If Summer Street gets a real busway, I'd use Fort Point for the stop near A Street.
• Government Center → City Hall: State has an entrance closer to City Hall, but this station is definitely closer to the rest of Government Center.
• St Mary's Street → Audubon Circle: besides Aubudon's shittiness, this stop is no closer than Fenway station is.
• Talbot Avenue → Codman Square: Codman Square is 2,000 feet from the station.
• Eastern Avenue → Highland Park: Highland Park isn't a well-known destination, while Eastern Avenue is a major arterial. Also potentially confusing because Box District station is on Highland Street.

 

[Teban54]

Courthouse → Fan Pier: There are other major courthouses close to T stops, including the Suffolk County Superior Court (GC) and Suffolk Family and Probate (Haymarket) plus a number of district courts. "Fan Pier" is unique and better encapsulates the neighborhood.

Right, I somehow forgot about how bad Courthouse's name is. I'm also wondering about Seaport Common, the name of an actual park nearby. The goal is more as an explicit mention of this being Seaport (and probably the most popular part of it), not because of the park's own notability. But ultimately, I do agree that Fan Pier sounds better.

Design Center → literally anything else. Technically it's "Design Center Place", but that's still confusing, since 23 Drydock and 27 Drydock are the stops that actually serve most of the building. There's a lot that needs rethought about the SL2 loop - the stops are substandard, the Cruiseport is poorly served, and the layovers awkwardly interrupt a lot of trips.

I'm almost wondering if all the necessary SL2 improvements should be tied together with more higher-level rethinking and redevelopment of Eastern Seaport itself. I'm not familiar with any further developments planned (and how much of a concern Logan's height restrictions are), but right now, this entire region feels like an afterthought, not just SL2 alone.

Boston Landing → Allston/Brighton: "Allston Yards" is too close to "Beacon Park Yard"; "Allston/Brighton" is better for the whole neighborhood it serves.

In context of the commuter rail system alone, this makes sense; but it feels awkward on a transit map when Allston is served by other lines more directly. I actually see this as part of the reason why Cambridge station on the Fitchburg line was renamed: even without it becoming a transfer station with RL, I would still add the "Cambridge" station to the rename list.

Same for the Chelsea → Mystic Mall item below, for any system map that also shows the 104/111/116 etc.

Arlington → Public Garden: mildly better for wayfinding, but the current name is fine

It may be fine for now, but the biggest problem comes in a (very realistic) future with RL extension to Arlington the town.

Broadway → Fort Point: Fort Point has always been centered more around Summer Street. If Summer Street gets a real busway, I'd use Fort Point for the stop near A Street.

While I agree that Fort Point should ideally be used for a Summer St station, from my perspective, it's more about renaming Broadway to anything else. That name is about as general as Washington St is (not to mention possible misconceptions from international tourists who may think that Broadway only refers to NYC's Theater District).

Other than Fort Point, I haven't thought of a good alternative. I even thought about calling it "Cabot" after Cabot Yard, but I doubt that's recognizable outside of transit nerds.

Eastern Avenue → Highland Park: Highland Park isn't a well-known destination, while Eastern Avenue is a major arterial. Also potentially confusing because Box District station is on Highland Street.

Highland Park is indeed not very notable, but ironically, "Eastern Avenue is a major arterial" was precisely why I felt renaming it was a good idea. Broadway @ Eastern Ave, near which the 116 makes stops, is a mile away from the SL3 station.

Although my current attempts are "Chelsea Creek" and "Chelsea Bridge", neither of which is any better.

 

[The EGE]

In context of the commuter rail system alone, this makes sense; but it feels awkward on a transit map when Allston is served by other lines more directly. I actually see this as part of the reason why Cambridge station on the Fitchburg line was renamed: even without it becoming a transfer station with RL, I would still add the "Cambridge" station to the rename list.

Same for the Chelsea → Mystic Mall item below, for any system map that also shows the 104/111/116 etc.

The station names still need to make sense for riders on the commuter rail, though. The broadness of a station name is related to the broadness of the mode. Station names on a regional mode should be clear to riders across the region - if there's only one station in an municipality, it should usually take the name of that municipality. The Allston-Brighton neighborhood is vastly more familiar to someone from Worcester than the name of a commercial development. Chelsea is more familiar to someone from Ipswich than a strip mall. I don't see any likely name conflict, since Bellingham Square, Union Square, and Brighton Center are all established names for the bus nodes.

Porter Square is at least a long-established neighborhood name, and the station had a history of being associated with the name.

(In general, commercial developments make lousy station names. They tend to be vague, and often change. Assembly was an exception because the area didn't have any previous name.)

It may be fine for now, but the biggest problem comes in a (very realistic) future with RL extension to Arlington the town.

I would estimate it would more likely be Arlington Center, especially if the extension goes to Arlington Heights. I also don't think it's an inherently fatal flaw to have a few repeated station names, especially if they're on different lines. We can deal with that problem if and when Arlington ever gets the Red Line - I'm not holding my breath for the next two decades.

While I agree that Fort Point should ideally be used for a Summer St station, from my perspective, it's more about renaming Broadway to anything else. That name is about as general as Washington St is (not to mention possible misconceptions from international tourists who may think that Broadway only refers to NYC's Theater District).

Other than Fort Point, I haven't thought of a good alternative. I even thought about calling it "Cabot" after Cabot Yard, but I doubt that's recognizable outside of transit nerds.

It's been the station name for 118 years and doesn't have any problematic associations. In this case, the existence of other Broadways in other municipalities is not a good enough reason to rename it, especially without a good alternative. As far as the scale of modes (regional rail / rapid transit / light rail and busway / local bus) goes, it's the only rapid transit station at a Broadway that doesn't already have a well-established square name (Sullivan, Kendall, Ball).

I don't think it's a coincidence that the majority of stations I support renaming are fairly new - an imperfect name is easier to justify renaming if it hasn't become closely associated with a place.

Highland Park is indeed not very notable, but ironically, "Eastern Avenue is a major arterial" was precisely why I felt renaming it was a good idea. Broadway @ Eastern Ave, near which the 116 makes stops, is a mile away from the SL3 station.

Although my current attempts are "Chelsea Creek" and "Chelsea Bridge", neither of which is any better.

A recognizable street that crosses a different bus line a mile away is still a vastly better name than a park that no one has heard of. "Chelsea Creek" isn't terrible, but I just don't see the argument for renaming here.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Chelsea → Mystic Mall: I get the reasoning, but it's weird to not have the Chelsea station on commuter rail called Chelsea.

I mean the issue here, and I think @Teban54 is generally getting at the same thing, is that the Commuter Rail station probably should be called Chelsea, but it's really weird for the SL3 stop, which just went through (or at least near) the center of Chelsea to also be called that, it should be called where it is. Maybe the solution is to sign the station as Chelsea/Mystic Mall?

 

[Charlie_mta]

I mean the issue here, and I think @Teban54 is generally getting at the same thing, is that the Commuter Rail station probably should be called Chelsea, but it's really weird for the SL3 stop, which just went through (or at least near) the center of Chelsea to also be called that, it should be called where it is. Maybe the solution is to sign the station as Chelsea/Mystic Mall?

I would leave the commuter rail station name as Chelsea, but rename the Silver Line stop at that location as Chelsea Rail Stop or Chelsea Rail Station.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I would leave the commuter rail station name as Chelsea, but rename the Silver Line stop at that location as Chelsea Rail Stop or Chelsea Rail Station.

Why all the concern about a CR and co-located transit stop sharing a name? South Station, North Station, Back Bay, Porter, JFK/UMass, Malden Center, Ruggles, Forest Hills etc. all share names. It is how you indicate they are co-located!

 

[737900er]

I mean the issue here, and I think @Teban54 is generally getting at the same thing, is that the Commuter Rail station probably should be called Chelsea, but it's really weird for the SL3 stop, which just went through (or at least near) the center of Chelsea to also be called that, it should be called where it is. Maybe the solution is to sign the station as Chelsea/Mystic Mall?

Because this is the bad idea thread, just call it "Chelsea Market Basket" Everyone knows exactly where that is.

 

[samsongam]

Why all the concern about a CR and co-located transit stop sharing a name? South Station, North Station, Back Bay, Porter, JFK/UMass, Malden Center, Ruggles, Forest Hills etc. all share names. It is how you indicate they are co-located!

I don't think the issue is co-located transit stops sharing names, just that this one isn't specific/central enough compared to other stops. Malden Center is better than just Malden because Oak Grove is also in Malden, but also Forest Hills is better than "Jamaica Plain" because there are other stops on the Orange Line in JP.

I think the SL and CR stops should definitely share the same name for clarity, but I'd argue that the name should be different. Chelsea is too broad, and as @TheRatmeister said, it's weird for the SL3 to have more central stops but they aren't called Chelsea. This station will more closely serve the Commercial Triangle developments, which are mostly part of Everett so that adds another layer of confusion.

If the SL were just a regular bus it wouldn't matter, but it has more importance and is very visible on the transit map. I would argue that we should call the stop "West Chelsea" to be more specific and move away from any commercial naming. This doesn't seem like a designation that is currently used at all, but as housing and future transit upgrades come in, it will be more important to be a little more specific without being entirely unrecognizable to commuters from further out.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I don't think the issue is co-located transit stops sharing names, just that this one isn't specific/central enough compared to other stops. Malden Center is better than just Malden because Oak Grove is also in Malden, but also Forest Hills is better than "Jamaica Plain" because there are other stops on the Orange Line in JP.

I think the SL and CR stops should definitely share the same name for clarity, but I'd argue that the name should be different. Chelsea is too broad, and as @TheRatmeister said, it's weird for the SL3 to have more central stops but they aren't called Chelsea. This station will more closely serve the Commercial Triangle developments, which are mostly part of Everett so that adds another layer of confusion.

If the SL were just a regular bus it wouldn't matter, but it has more importance and is very visible on the transit map. I would argue that we should call the stop "West Chelsea" to be more specific and move away from any commercial naming. This doesn't seem like a designation that is currently used at all, but as housing and future transit upgrades come in, it will be more important to be a little more specific without being entirely unrecognizable to commuters from further out.

But to show the co-location, the CR stop name should change in parallel. Which would be fine.

 

[Teban54]

How about "Chelsea Depot"? To revive the historical trend of using "depot" as the place-making name if it's not exactly close to the center of that municipality.

 

[The EGE]

"Depot" is generally just seen as a synonym for "station" these days. While there are a few locations left with the "X Depot" naming indicating a station village separate from the main village (Charlton Depot comes to mind), the vast majority of people would not know that, and it wouldn't scan as anything different from the current name.

Something like "West Chelsea" would be fine.

 

[Tallguy]

Some other name changes I agree with (from this thread and others):

• East Somerville → Brickbottom: Better placemaking; East Somerville also includes a lot that's closer to Sullivan Square.
• Silver Line Way → Starboard Way (or Pavilion, or something else): anything to make it a useful name
• World Trade Center → BCEC (or maybe BCEC/World Trade Center): BCEC is at least as big a draw as the WTC
• Courthouse → Fan Pier: There are other major courthouses close to T stops, including the Suffolk County Superior Court (GC) and Suffolk Family and Probate (Haymarket) plus a number of district courts. "Fan Pier" is unique and better encapsulates the neighborhood.
• Design Center → literally anything else. Technically it's "Design Center Place", but that's still confusing, since 23 Drydock and 27 Drydock are the stops that actually serve most of the building. There's a lot that needs rethought about the SL2 loop - the stops are substandard, the Cruiseport is poorly served, and the layovers awkwardly interrupt a lot of trips.
• Washington Street → Commonwealth Heights: the person aside, there are so many stops on or at Washington Streets. This would be unique.
• West Station → Beacon Park. Please, for the love of everything good, give this station a real name. It's not going to be the equivalent of North Station or South Station.
• Boston Landing → Allston/Brighton: "Allston Yards" is too close to "Beacon Park Yard"; "Allston/Brighton" is better for the whole neighborhood it serves.
• Newton Street → Blackstone Square

Ones I'm on the fence / meh about:

• All the other SL stops on Washington. None of them are bad, but I'm not sure if they're more recognizable.
• Arlington → Public Garden: mildly better for wayfinding, but the current name is fine
• Babcock → Agganis
• Riverway → Leverett Pond: Maybe if you didn't have to cross all the Jamaicaway ramps to get there. (I would consider calling it Jamaicaway rather than Riverway, though, since it's the only stop near the Jamaicaway but not the Riverway)
• Fenway → The Fens: Good way to lessen confusion with Fenway Park, but it's not actually that near the main body of the Fens.
• Summit Avenue → Corey Hill: the combined Fairbanks/Brandon Hall station would just as easily suit this name.
• Sutherland Road → Aberdeen
• Gilman Square → Winter Hill: I know Winter Hill was the historic station name, but the Broadway bus corridor more serves the hill itself.
• Cleveland Circle → Beacon Loop: Cleveland wasn't the worst president, but not great either. It's not a circle any more, but neither is it a loop.
• Chelsea → Mystic Mall: I get the reasoning, but it's weird to not have the Chelsea station on commuter rail called Chelsea.

Ones I definitely disagree with:

• Kendall/MIT → Kendall: until there's actual Grand Junction transit, this is still the main stop for MIT.
• Wellington → Mystic Landing: Wellington has been the neighborhood name for 150+ years. The station needs better connections to the neighborhood, not the name of generic TOD.
• Maverick → Jefferies Point: While this station should definitely be renamed, Jefferies Point
• Broadway → Fort Point: Fort Point has always been centered more around Summer Street. If Summer Street gets a real busway, I'd use Fort Point for the stop near A Street.
• Government Center → City Hall: State has an entrance closer to City Hall, but this station is definitely closer to the rest of Government Center.
• St Mary's Street → Audubon Circle: besides Aubudon's shittiness, this stop is no closer than Fenway station is.
• Talbot Avenue → Codman Square: Codman Square is 2,000 feet from the station.
• Eastern Avenue → Highland Park: Highland Park isn't a well-known destination, while Eastern Avenue is a major arterial. Also potentially confusing because Box District station is on Highland Street.

So, Boston Landing is more Brighton and West Station is more Allston

 

[Charlie_mta]

"Depot" is generally just seen as a synonym for "station" these days. While there are a few locations left with the "X Depot" naming indicating a station village separate from the main village (Charlton Depot comes to mind), the vast majority of people would not know that, and it wouldn't scan as anything different from the current name.

Something like "West Chelsea" would be fine.

"West Chelsea" would be ideal as a common name for both the SL and commuter rail. It still has "Chelsea" in it for commuter rail logic, but also gives it a correct geographic name for the SL.

 

[kdmc]

Chelsea Not Center
Fake Chelsea
Chelsea Chase
Big Box District
Everett Ave
Chelsea/MGH

 

[stick n move]

Shitpost:

Youve heard of NSRL, let me introduce you to NSLL, north south logan link. Its the ultimate in “commuter rail” technology, skip most of downtown so suburbanites have a 1 seat ride to the airport. Its pretty wonky and the transfer to blue is crazy, but you keep most of the same transfers at north and south station and only lose central station which in many cases wasnt going to be built anyways so you actually gain the blue transfer back at airport station.

 

[Charlie_mta]

Shitpost:

Youve heard of NSRL, let me introduce you to NSLL, north south logan link. Its the ultimate in “commuter rail” technology, skip most of downtown so suburbanites have a 1 seat ride to the airport. Its pretty wonky and the transfer to blue is crazy, but you keep most of the same transfers at north and south station and only lose central station which in many cases wasnt going to be built anyways so you actually gain the blue transfer back at airport station.

View attachment 63024

If an economical deep bore machine ever happens, this would work.

 

[kdmc]

Shitpost:

Youve heard of NSRL, let me introduce you to NSLL, north south logan link. Its the ultimate in “commuter rail” technology, skip most of downtown so suburbanites have a 1 seat ride to the airport. Its pretty wonky and the transfer to blue is crazy, but you keep most of the same transfers at north and south station and only lose central station which in many cases wasnt going to be built anyways so you actually gain the blue transfer back at airport station.

View attachment 63024

Based on the way you've drawn it, is there a stop at the terminals in addition to the BL Airport stop?

 

[stick n move]

Yes, sorry should have added where the stops where.