Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

Nexis4jersey said:
Why wasn't the New Bedford station built near the ferry?
Click to expand...
It's about 1/2 a mile away. The ferry and MBTA share the same parking lot (Whales Tooth), and there are free shuttles going back and forth. But it's about a 10 minute walk in practice. Not bad.
 
A State Pier station was looked at in the 2008 station siting: https://www.nae.usace.army.mil/Portals/74/docs/topics/SouthCoastRail/VolIV/Appendix3.1CStation.pdf

It was recommended at that time, but only as a seasonal station similar to Battleship Cove. While it's a bit closer to the downtown area, there isn't any room for parking (versus the underused Whales Tooth lot), and it would be near-impossible to fit a full-length platform in between the driveways. I also suspect the actual amount of transfer demand would be low, given the highly seasonal nature of the ferry and the limited number of daily trips. The Whales Tooth site was the clear winner for a year-round station.
 
The EGE said:
It was recommended at that time, but only as a seasonal station similar to Battleship Cove.
Click to expand...
If/when Battleship Cove eventually gets built, is it likely to be a seasonal station? I thought it was planned as a full-time station the last time it was being considered (2017/2018?).
 
None of the reports from that era explicitly say whether or not if would be. (Everything from the 2008 station siting memo to the 2013 FEIS said seasonal.)

From a practical standpoint, it's probably in the $10-20 million range to do. Standard platform and canopy, access walkway and emergency egress, sidewalk improvements and wayfinding between the station and Battleship Cove, getting a mile of track up to passenger standards, and rebuilding the bridge over the adjacent creek. Plus operating costs in the mid 6 to low 7 figures annually. Not a massive expense, but not tiny. I'm not sure if you could justify it to primarily serve the museum, certainly not until you've tested it with a shuttle bus meeting selected trains.

For a potential full-time station, I think it's a wait-and-see thing. See how SCR ridership and particularly Fall River ridership develops, see whether SCR Phase 2 gets any momentum, see how the city changes as the waterfront is redeveloped, etc.
 
If
The EGE said:
None of the reports from that era explicitly say whether or not if would be. (Everything from the 2008 station siting memo to the 2013 FEIS said seasonal.)

From a practical standpoint, it's probably in the $10-20 million range to do. Standard platform and canopy, access walkway and emergency egress, sidewalk improvements and wayfinding between the station and Battleship Cove, getting a mile of track up to passenger standards, and rebuilding the bridge over the adjacent creek. Plus operating costs in the mid 6 to low 7 figures annually. Not a massive expense, but not tiny. I'm not sure if you could justify it to primarily serve the museum, certainly not until you've tested it with a shuttle bus meeting selected trains.

For a potential full-time station, I think it's a wait-and-see thing. See how SCR ridership and particularly Fall River ridership develops, see whether SCR Phase 2 gets any momentum, see how the city changes as the waterfront is redeveloped, etc.
Click to expand...
If FR can ever get ferry service from their state pier (they’ve had starts and stops with Newport and Block Island ferries) to stick, they may have a strong case for seasonal service at least. But short of that, it’s hard to argue that it’s worth it.
 
Took another trip (last one was April on a cold rainy day) from SS to New Bedford for a day trip yesterday (Sunday) and was very pleased with all things about the ride! No slowdown or stops and took about 1 hr 35 down, and about 1 hr 25 up on the way back. Took the 8:20am out and brought bikes (plenty of room) maybe only 100 people on the whole train at that hour (two cars open). Hit 80 mph on the stretches between Middleboro and East Taunton, and East Taunton and Church St. It was a great use of the $10 weekend pass for a day trip!

Down in New Bedford: had amazing Cape Verdean breakfast at Izzys at about 10:15am (about 12 min walk; 3 min bike ride to downtown) and it's something I don't think you could find the same of in Boston! Went to a Portuguese bakery after (the Baker) for a homemade cinnamon roll to top it off! Checked out the free Whaling Museum in the National Park, enjoyed the waterfront near the ferry terminal, old architecture, and then took advantage of a shared-use path that goes from the waterfront all the way to the end of Clark's Point (Fort Rodman) while thru the Cove Walk and West Beach. Following beautiful Fort Rodman and its ocean views, biked by East Beach, and stopped at the Irish Memorial for some history stories and then stopped to hang at Cisco Brewers. Then, we biked on to the east side cove walk and waved over to Palmer Island and its beach in Acushnet River to cool off and catch some horseshoe crabs in the water. This was all before 2pm! Beyond there, biked to Moby Dick brewing for a bite, sat on the water, found some more seafood at the Clam Bar at Whale's Tail (some of the best fried clam in a while). Finished with biking by classic estates and homes and some quiet parts of Dartmouth. Had some time to kill before the 6:48pm train, so we biked an extra 3 miles to Church St instead and boarded there.

At Church Street, there was about 40 passengers boarding to go into Boston, and they've landscaped it a bit; however, it needs some development nearby! A resident of the town heard be talking enthusiastically about how we need to have more trains and connect these cities, especially giving new opportunities for people to travel by rail, and she was happy to hear something of a measure of belief in her city she'd lived in for a while. The ride back was quick, and there were about 250 passengers coming off the train at South Station, into the new spacious, arched entry.

The transit enthusiast in me, along with the advocate, and the inner kid in me, was pleased with yesterday.

Always room for improvement of course!

And if you're looking for a nice CR day trip, I can recommend it! There were a few others with bikes, and many others from Boston, getting away to a place I find delightfully different 😊
 
G
AndrewOnTheMBTA said:
Took another trip (last one was April on a cold rainy day) from SS to New Bedford for a day trip yesterday (Sunday) and was very pleased with all things about the ride! No slowdown or stops and took about 1 hr 35 down, and about 1 hr 25 up on the way back. Took the 8:20am out and brought bikes (plenty of room) maybe only 100 people on the whole train at that hour (two cars open). Hit 80 mph on the stretches between Middleboro and East Taunton, and East Taunton and Church St. It was a great use of the $10 weekend pass for a day trip!

Down in New Bedford: had amazing Cape Verdean breakfast at Izzys at about 10:15am (about 12 min walk; 3 min bike ride to downtown) and it's something I don't think you could find the same of in Boston! Went to a Portuguese bakery after (the Baker) for a homemade cinnamon roll to top it off! Checked out the free Whaling Museum in the National Park, enjoyed the waterfront near the ferry terminal, old architecture, and then took advantage of a shared-use path that goes from the waterfront all the way to the end of Clark's Point (Fort Rodman) while thru the Cove Walk and West Beach. Following beautiful Fort Rodman and its ocean views, biked by East Beach, and stopped at the Irish Memorial for some history stories and then stopped to hang at Cisco Brewers. Then, we biked on to the east side cove walk and waved over to Palmer Island and its beach in Acushnet River to cool off and catch some horseshoe crabs in the water. This was all before 2pm! Beyond there, biked to Moby Dick brewing for a bite, sat on the water, found some more seafood at the Clam Bar at Whale's Tail (some of the best fried clam in a while). Finished with biking by classic estates and homes and some quiet parts of Dartmouth. Had some time to kill before the 6:48pm train, so we biked an extra 3 miles to Church St instead and boarded there.

At Church Street, there was about 40 passengers boarding to go into Boston, and they've landscaped it a bit; however, it needs some development nearby! A resident of the town heard be talking enthusiastically about how we need to have more trains and connect these cities, especially giving new opportunities for people to travel by rail, and she was happy to hear something of a measure of belief in her city she'd lived in for a while. The ride back was quick, and there were about 250 passengers coming off the train at South Station, into the new spacious, arched entry.

The transit enthusiast in me, along with the advocate, and the inner kid in me, was pleased with yesterday.

Always room for improvement of course!

And if you're looking for a nice CR day trip, I can recommend it! There were a few others with bikes, and many others from Boston, getting away to a place I find delightfully different 😊
Click to expand...
Great write up, thanks, appreciate the food recs. I used to routinely do a bike on the train to the North Shore and maybe will have to resurrect this tradition...
 
AndrewOnTheMBTA said:
Took another trip (last one was April on a cold rainy day) from SS to New Bedford for a day trip yesterday (Sunday) and was very pleased with all things about the ride! No slowdown or stops and took about 1 hr 35 down, and about 1 hr 25 up on the way back. Took the 8:20am out and brought bikes (plenty of room) maybe only 100 people on the whole train at that hour (two cars open). Hit 80 mph on the stretches between Middleboro and East Taunton, and East Taunton and Church St. It was a great use of the $10 weekend pass for a day trip!

Down in New Bedford: had amazing Cape Verdean breakfast at Izzys at about 10:15am (about 12 min walk; 3 min bike ride to downtown) and it's something I don't think you could find the same of in Boston! Went to a Portuguese bakery after (the Baker) for a homemade cinnamon roll to top it off! Checked out the free Whaling Museum in the National Park, enjoyed the waterfront near the ferry terminal, old architecture, and then took advantage of a shared-use path that goes from the waterfront all the way to the end of Clark's Point (Fort Rodman) while thru the Cove Walk and West Beach. Following beautiful Fort Rodman and its ocean views, biked by East Beach, and stopped at the Irish Memorial for some history stories and then stopped to hang at Cisco Brewers. Then, we biked on to the east side cove walk and waved over to Palmer Island and its beach in Acushnet River to cool off and catch some horseshoe crabs in the water. This was all before 2pm! Beyond there, biked to Moby Dick brewing for a bite, sat on the water, found some more seafood at the Clam Bar at Whale's Tail (some of the best fried clam in a while). Finished with biking by classic estates and homes and some quiet parts of Dartmouth. Had some time to kill before the 6:48pm train, so we biked an extra 3 miles to Church St instead and boarded there.

At Church Street, there was about 40 passengers boarding to go into Boston, and they've landscaped it a bit; however, it needs some development nearby! A resident of the town heard be talking enthusiastically about how we need to have more trains and connect these cities, especially giving new opportunities for people to travel by rail, and she was happy to hear something of a measure of belief in her city she'd lived in for a while. The ride back was quick, and there were about 250 passengers coming off the train at South Station, into the new spacious, arched entry.

The transit enthusiast in me, along with the advocate, and the inner kid in me, was pleased with yesterday.

Always room for improvement of course!

And if you're looking for a nice CR day trip, I can recommend it! There were a few others with bikes, and many others from Boston, getting away to a place I find delightfully different 😊
Click to expand...
If you come again and want to ride your bike somewhere different -
Ride over the Fairhaven/New Bedford Rt 6 bridge into Fairhaven and check out the center and Fort Phoenix.
Then, ride the bike path from Fairhaven into Mattapoisett. You can then ride around the center of Mattapoisett and to Ned’s Point lighthouse. All very scenic.
BB2BD5F4-413B-4F0F-8A9F-F8BB5005C1D9.jpeg
 

Attachments

  • 70017494-EA0E-4A4A-8FAB-12E0E4D4A6F0.jpeg
    70017494-EA0E-4A4A-8FAB-12E0E4D4A6F0.jpeg
    3.3 MB · Views: 82
I checked out Fort Phoenix last time and enjoyed it, but was on foot in April when I went last. Knowing of the bike path and being able to get over there faster on a bike, you got a deal!
gregrc75 said:
If you come again and want to ride your bike somewhere different -
Ride over the Fairhaven/New Bedford Rt 6 bridge into Fairhaven and check out the center and Fort Phoenix.
Then, ride the bike path from Fairhaven into Mattapoisett. You can then ride around the center of Mattapoisett and to Ned’s Point lighthouse. All very scenic.View attachment 65574
Click to expand...
 
Or go the other direction (west) and hit up Padanaram, Round Hill Beach, and Demarest Lloyd (all Dartmouth)!!!
 
https://scs-public.s3-us-gov-west-1...841/project-documents/D. Pool of Projects.pdf

Hmmm...RIDOT places a new Sakonnet River Rail Bridge on its Long Range Transportation Plan. $75M cost estimate. The LRTP is kind of depressingly bereft of other passenger rail items (no Woonsocket pax rail, no NEC infill funding, no Wickford platform expansion, only T.F. Green Amtrak platforms + Westerly rebuild), so this is notable for its inclusion.

1755297505600.png

1755297571700.png

1755297635600.png

1755297613400.png
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
https://scs-public.s3-us-gov-west-1...841/project-documents/D. Pool of Projects.pdf

Hmmm...RIDOT places a new Sakonnet River Rail Bridge on its Long Range Transportation Plan. $75M cost estimate. The LRTP is kind of depressingly bereft of other passenger rail items (no Woonsocket pax rail, no NEC infill funding, no Wickford platform expansion, only T.F. Green Amtrak platforms + Westerly rebuild), so this is notable for its inclusion.

View attachment 65841
View attachment 65842
View attachment 65844
View attachment 65843
Click to expand...

P.117 of this multi-appendix PDF says over 25% of all public comments received on the draft plan were calls to add the Sakonnet River Rail Bridge to the pool of projects, so that probably had a lot to do with their decision to put it into the LRTP.

RIDOT also granted a similar grassroots appeal to add a pocket track at Westerly for turning Shore Line East trains to the project pool. Together those two rail projects (which, again, weren’t even in the previous draft of the plan) amounted to close to half the total comments received on the LRTP.

But yeah…it’s still a very small number of passenger rail projects overall. And if public comments are any indication, there’s probably a mismatch between public desire for rail and the state’s prioritization of it.
 
Last edited:
RandomWalk said:
Does the T/MassDOT control the phase 2 ROW, or is it in private hands?
Click to expand...
The ROW in this area seems to be privately owned by the developers. I was under the impression that it was under state/MBTA ownership.
jlj.JPG
jlj2.JPG
 
Last edited:
The section from Route 138 in Raynham to Winter Street in Taunton was a rather early casualty - out of service in 1932, abandoned in 1937, tracks lifted in 1940. After the Whittenton Branch was built in the 1880s, providing access to Taunton Central station from the Dighton and Somerset (D&S) mainline (some of which is now the Phase II route), the original D&S mainline between Raynham and Weir Junction was used only for the nonstop boat train and some through freights.

Because of the early abandonment, it wasn't part of the lines that the MBTA bought from Penn Central in 1973. The Stoughton–Raynham section and the Whittenton Branch were included in that transaction, while everything else used for SCR was sold by CSX in 2010. But that 2.6 miles was abandoned so early that it was sold off piecemeal. The middle half between Trasher and King Phillip doesn't list private ownership, and it's mostly used for utilities, so it might be owned by CSX or a utility or the municipalities or a state agency. The two ends, though, are divided among a dozen different private owners with no railbanking.
 
The EGE said:
The section from Route 138 in Raynham to Winter Street in Taunton was a rather early casualty - out of service in 1932, abandoned in 1937, tracks lifted in 1940. After the Whittenton Branch was built in the 1880s, providing access to Taunton Central station from the Dighton and Somerset (D&S) mainline (some of which is now the Phase II route), the original D&S mainline between Raynham and Weir Junction was used only for the nonstop boat train and some through freights.

Because of the early abandonment, it wasn't part of the lines that the MBTA bought from Penn Central in 1973. The Stoughton–Raynham section and the Whittenton Branch were included in that transaction, while everything else used for SCR was sold by CSX in 2010. But that 2.6 miles was abandoned so early that it was sold off piecemeal. The middle half between Trasher and King Phillip doesn't list private ownership, and it's mostly used for utilities, so it might be owned by CSX or a utility or the municipalities or a state agency. The two ends, though, are divided among a dozen different private owners with no railbanking.
Click to expand...
That seems like it could be a serious issue if Phase II is ever going to become a reality. Is the state able to use eminent domain to grab this land? Or would Phase II have to revert to the Whittenton alternative that was eliminated from consideration in ~2011?
 
Last edited:
Legally, not a big deal. The T has done property acquisition plenty of times before, such as with GLX. (Very often, the agency and owner are able to negotiate a price without eminent domain being invoked, but it's there if needed.

In practice, it certainly won't make Phase II any easier or more popular. Along with this proposed parking lot, 6 of the properties are residential. None of them have the house on the actual ROW (though one uses it as a driveway), but I imagine the MBTA would need to buy the whole property. Several of the businesses on 138 might have their parking lots/driveways affected, especially if Raynham gets their wish for a grade separation there.

It's not the biggest worry for Phase II - cost effectiveness, the swamp, and opposition from Stoughton/Easton/Raynham are bigger issues - but still an annoying wrinkle.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top