Fall River/New Bedford Commuter Rail (South Coast Rail)

That seems like it could be a serious issue if Phase II is ever going to become a reality. Is the state able to use eminent domain to grab this land? Or would Phase II have to revert to the Whittenton alternative that was eliminated from consideration in ~2011?
I'd like to see the State generally get more aggressive on acquiring ROW for transit expansion. It's been done before, as the EGE pointed out above. For decades after WW II the state was incredibly aggressive on acquiring ROW for highway expansion, now it's transit's turn.
 
I'd like to see the State generally get more aggressive on acquiring ROW for transit expansion. It's been done before, as the EGE pointed out above. For decades after WW II the state was incredibly aggressive on acquiring ROW for highway expansion, now it's transit's turn.
How so? The state already owns nearly every extant post-1960 abandoned rail ROW, and almost all crayon maps of transit expansions take advantage of that. The New England states are already excellent at landbanking. What projects, aside from very impractical builds like Inland Route HSR, require large amounts of brand new property acquisition?
 
How so? The state already owns nearly every extant post-1960 abandoned rail ROW, and almost all crayon maps of transit expansions take advantage of that. The New England states are already excellent at landbanking. What projects, aside from very impractical builds like Inland Route HSR, require large amounts of brand new property acquisition?
Uh, SCR phase 2, the one we're talking about in particular? As an early action, buying the privately held portions of the RoW that Phase 2 would require is absolutely sensible, even if building it gets deferred a decade or 2. That lot, even at asking price, is a rounding error in MassDOTs budget and they should buy it, if for no other reason than to prevent something going up on that site, especially since its on the market. Plus, MassDOT has been reasonably aggressive in buying the freight lines, even if the T doesn't operate on them. Something like the Milford Secondary, or buying the Fitchburg past Ayer, etc for CR expansion etc should all be on the table. The abandoned Dedham leg that has single families on it now, if bought piecemeal if they go up on the market, is swallowable by the budget.

Other than that, I absolutely support the MBTA buying property that will eventually suit it - 200 Newport Ave in Quincy, the new medford bus garage site... all are sensible investments in the T's ability to operate even in the absence of construction funding. Perhaps not RoW in the strictest sense, but the T is already in the real estate business. It should be more so.
 
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Is there any serious long-range proposal to reactivate Dedham? If anything parts of it continue to be developed in West Roxbury (I know this is the loop portion, but still).
 
This situation could prove to be a good litmus test to judge how seriously the state takes SCR Phase II. My gut sense is along the lines of what @The EGE said: these people are no strangers to the legal and valuation components of acquiring privately-held ROW parcels, so if they’re serious about pursuing Phase II, we should expect them to pay some attention to development proposals that risk encroaching on the ROW they need.

I wish there was an existing coalition of SCR Phase II supporters who could keep an eye out for stuff like this and work with their elected officials to push for more proactive parcel acquisition. I’m sure the state would be more than happy if everyone’s distracted, something gets built in the way, and then they have an excuse to drop plans for Phase II served up on a silver platter.
 
I wish there was an existing coalition of SCR Phase II supporters who could keep an eye out for stuff like this and work with their elected officials to push for more proactive parcel acquisition. I’m sure the state would be more than happy if everyone’s distracted, something gets built in the way, and then they have an excuse to drop plans for Phase II served up on a silver platter.
There was: the SCR Task Force. Which was less a well-oiled advocacy than a cynical political grift for local politicians to rub noses with state politicians. They didn't challenge the Army Corps' negligent/fraudulent FEIR that left Phase II completely service-crippled. They didn't do any coordination with SRTA for bus integration, which leaves (especially the Fall River Branch) SCR seriously lacking in multimodal connectivity. They didn't put a single ounce of effort into enacting the 2009 Corridor Plan's vision for aggressive mixed-use TOD around the stations consigning them to mostly one-dimensional parking sinks. They didn't raise any questions about whether the Phase I substitution would actually net usably reliable service. Why would something as trivial as prudent advance land acquisition have been any more a priority for them? All of those pols figured to be on the other side of the public-private revolving door before anything got built.

But lots of favors got exchanged, and some people likely ended up personally enriched by those favors before the org disbanded with Phase I's advancement-to-build. So ultimately it achieved its selfish...if farcial...ultimate goals.🤷‍♂️


I honestly don't think think this one property even carries with it a whiff of hesitation for the state. Hell...the developer would have to be completely living under a rock to not know about Phase II and the still-ongoing advocacy for it. They know they've got a windfall coming their way under that parking lot surface when the time comes. Any building plans are going to be fully compatible with a rail ROW being right outside their tenants' windows, whether the would-be tenants get lied to about it or not. But the developer/owner is no doubt banking on T money eventually coming their way, so it's not going to be a NIMBY situation when the time comes.
 
SCR phase 2 is nowhere on the state's radar. There's no organized group advocating for it. Don't expect the state to be protecting the potential right-of-way for this route, sadly.

At least the Quincy-Dorchester Old Colony main bottleneck has received a slight bit of state attention. That said, where is the advocacy group pushing for a fix there? No desired regional rail frequencies to SE Mass. until that bottleneck is fixed, never mind thoughts of a Wareham/Buzzards Bay service extension.
 
I was thinking about the stark contrast in advocacy interest for rebuilding the Sakonnet River rail bridge vs. laying the tracks for SCR Phase II via Stoughton.

In a world where the rail connection to Aquidneck Island is restored before the corridor capacity issues of SCR’s Phase I/Middleborough routing are addressed…and the MBTA wants to debut a “Newport FLYER” service…how likely would it be that they’d initially run the trains via the Attleboro routing?

The main reasons I’m aware of that the Attleboro routing was rejected for the SCR project were the capacity impacts on the NEC and the roadway impacts on Downtown Taunton with all its grade crossings. A Newport FLYER service that sends maybe 1 or 2 trains per day through this corridor, largely running express on the NEC (maybe stopping only at Back Bay and 128, like Amtrak…possibly another stop at Mansfield if a bypass track was added?), doesn’t strike me as problematic on this corridor the way dozens of commuter rail trains making frequent local stops disqualified it from further consideration early in the SCR alternatives analysis.

I’m also thinking that until the Stoughton alignment is built, the route from Boston to Newport will entail a dog leg whether you get to Cotley Junction via the NEC or the Middleborough main line. The NEC supports higher native speeds, and the Middleborough main line already has the Cape FLYER on top of all the other services it carries on its northern end. Am I missing something important, or could the Attleboro routing actually be realistic for a Newport weekend service? (Would the cost of building the short Attleboro Bypass be enough to make the routing unpalatable?)
 
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For 1-2 trains a day, crossing over (southbound) and reversing direction at Attleboro wouldn't be a big deal. It would add ~10 minutes to the trip, though that could include a station stop.
 
I was thinking about the stark contrast in advocacy interest for rebuilding the Sakonnet River rail bridge vs. laying the tracks for SCR Phase II via Stoughton.

In a world where the rail connection to Aquidneck Island is restored before the corridor capacity issues of SCR’s Phase I/Middleborough routing are addressed…and the MBTA wants to debut a “Newport FLYER” service…how likely would it be that they’d initially run the trains via the Attleboro routing?

The main reasons I’m aware of that the Attleboro routing was rejected for the SCR project were the capacity impacts on the NEC and the roadway impacts on Downtown Taunton with all its grade crossings. A Newport FLYER service that sends maybe 1 or 2 trains per day through this corridor, largely running express on the NEC (maybe stopping only at Back Bay and 128, like Amtrak…possibly another stop at Mansfield if a bypass track was added?), doesn’t strike me as problematic on this corridor the way dozens of commuter rail trains making frequent local stops disqualified it from further consideration early in the SCR alternatives analysis.

I’m also thinking that until the Stoughton alignment is built, the route from Boston to Newport will entail a dog leg whether you get to Cotley Junction via the NEC or the Middleborough main line. The NEC supports higher native speeds, and the Middleborough main line already has the Cape FLYER on top of all the other services it carries on its northern end. Am I missing something important, or could the Attleboro routing actually be realistic for a Newport weekend service? (Would the cost of building the short Attleboro Bypass be enough to make the routing unpalatable?)
You'd lose whatever speed advantage the NEC express brings by having the 10-minute Attleboro reverse, and then dealing with the Middleboro Secondary's 30 MPH speed limit on the 13.5 miles from Attleboro Jct. to Cotley Jct. Honestly, if you're going to attempt something remotely complex a bog-standard Cape Flyer slot that splits at Lakeville into a separate Newport section would probably do just as well. The Cape Flyer already runs with double-ended locos, so you just need to have 2 coupled cab cars in the center for the split/combine.

Plus the rabid Norton NIMBY's are going to have a field day with anything they perceive as a trojan horse to put the Attleboro Bypass potentially back on the table, so the T would have low motivation for even breaching that subject.
 
You'd lose whatever speed advantage the NEC express brings by having the 10-minute Attleboro reverse, and then dealing with the Middleboro Secondary's 30 MPH speed limit on the 13.5 miles from Attleboro Jct. to Cotley Jct. Honestly, if you're going to attempt something remotely complex a bog-standard Cape Flyer slot that splits at Lakeville into a separate Newport section would probably do just as well. The Cape Flyer already runs with double-ended locos, so you just need to have 2 coupled cab cars in the center for the split/combine.

Plus the rabid Norton NIMBY's are going to have a field day with anything they perceive as a trojan horse to put the Attleboro Bypass potentially back on the table, so the T would have low motivation for even breaching that subject.
Could a combined set be run with the rear (Newport Flyer) half having its cab car at the end instead of its locomotive? (In other words, what gets uncoupled in the center of the combined set is the Cape Flyer's cab car and the Newport Flyer's locomotive.)

Assuming the Newport station gets built at/adjacent to the existing Newport bus hub, its platform length will likely be constrained. There are three grade crossings directly north of the bus hub, spaced at roughly 230-foot blocks: Bridge, Elm, and Poplar Streets. Even if they extended the tracks one block south (eating the bus drop-off lane along America's Cup Avenue), that still only leaves about 250 feet between the edge of the bus depot building and the Bridge Street crossing (which looks the least viable to close out of the three). In a situation where passengers only have 250 feet to work with for boarding at Newport, pulling into the station with the locomotive up front would waste about 30% of the platform on "non-boardable train length," so ideally the cab car would be leading when the train arrives.

Any estimate on how long it would take to split the train at Lakeville? I know there are lines in Germany that can couple/uncouple in just a few minutes...and on the other end of the spectrum, I think the Lake Shore Limited takes a half-hour.
 
Could a combined set be run with the rear (Newport Flyer) half having its cab car at the end instead of its locomotive? (In other words, what gets uncoupled in the center of the combined set is the Cape Flyer's cab car and the Newport Flyer's locomotive.)
That would be pretty awkward, and possibly not allowed if the T has any internal rules about staff needing to access the whole train. What you could instead do is throw it in reverse to the north leg of Middleboro Jct., and then have the middle-oriented cab car correctly point to Newport, although that's going to add a couple minutes longer because a staff-assisted reverse move goes very slowly (it would not require changing ends again at the wye, as you're simply throwing it in R and having the lead conductor spot out the other end).
Assuming the Newport station gets built at/adjacent to the existing Newport bus hub, its platform length will likely be constrained. There are three grade crossings directly north of the bus hub, spaced at roughly 230-foot blocks: Bridge, Elm, and Poplar Streets. Even if they extended the tracks one block south (eating the bus drop-off lane along America's Cup Avenue), that still only leaves about 250 feet between the edge of the bus depot building and the Bridge Street crossing (which looks the least viable to close out of the three). In a situation where passengers only have 250 feet to work with for boarding at Newport, pulling into the station with the locomotive up front would waste about 30% of the platform on "non-boardable train length," so ideally the cab car would be leading when the train arrives.
You can't even get all doors on a 3-car train open with just 250 feet to work with, and the T's consist minimums are 4 cars. They can't even repurpose the East Taunton-Fall River shuttle trains for their own Newport-serving purposes with only that much platform. What I'd do instead is curve a long grade crossing through the busways and eat some of the rear parking lot for a platform. You'd have room for up to a 600 ft. platform that way. This is definitely going to be RIDOT's operational problem to solve. If they want the service at all, they're going to have to significantly reconfigure the transit center accordingly. The last RIDOT study didn't get far enough into detail to spec exactly how they plan to do that, but in all likelihood it's already been thought of because the platform lengths amid all those grade crossings are virtually useless for real-world service and they know it up-front.
Any estimate on how long it would take to split the train at Lakeville? I know there are lines in Germany that can couple/uncouple in just a few minutes...and on the other end of the spectrum, I think the Lake Shore Limited takes a half-hour.
The uncoupling can probably be done in 10 minutes with the standard ends-changing brake checks. The re-coupling would probably be padded by 5-10 more minutes to time the arrivals of both train sections. Note that the Lake Shore Ltd. in Albany also does an engine swap on the New York section with the dual-mode loco being turned in favor of a straight diesel the rest of the way to Chicago, so it's actually a multifaceted split/combine that's done there. Not to mention an absurd amount of overall padding given that both eastern legs of the route have rather middling (in previous eras...outright garbage) OTP. It can definitely be done shorter than the LSL's because the overall complexity is a lot lower.
 
That would be pretty awkward, and possibly not allowed if the T has any internal rules about staff needing to access the whole train. What you could instead do is throw it in reverse to the north leg of Middleboro Jct., and then have the middle-oriented cab car correctly point to Newport, although that's going to add a couple minutes longer because a staff-assisted reverse move goes very slowly (it would not require changing ends again at the wye, as you're simply throwing it in R and having the lead conductor spot out the other end).
Another (perhaps faster?) way of doing it could be for the combined set to make its junction-area station stop at the new Middleborough platform. The front (Cape) half of the consist would uncouple and proceed just a quarter-mile down the Middleborough Secondary in a forward direction before pulling onto the new siding and coming to a stop. The rear (Newport) half of the consist would then proceed past the Cape half in a forward direction, with the cab car leading the train towards Newport. Once the Newport half clears, the Cape half would then reverse toward the Cape Main Line via the new crossovers leading to the southern leg of the wye, now with its cab car facing towards Hyannis.

I assume that because there's a siding so close to the Middleborough platform, the relative time penalty of this move on Cape Flyer passengers would be less than what Newport Flyer passengers would experience if the train were to stop at the Lakeville platform. There's also an element of fairness ("the Cape Flyer was here first"), but it at least seems like a plausible alternative.

You can't even get all doors on a 3-car train open with just 250 feet to work with, and the T's consist minimums are 4 cars. They can't even repurpose the East Taunton-Fall River shuttle trains for their own Newport-serving purposes with only that much platform. What I'd do instead is curve a long grade crossing through the busways and eat some of the rear parking lot for a platform. You'd have room for up to a 600 ft. platform that way. This is definitely going to be RIDOT's operational problem to solve. If they want the service at all, they're going to have to significantly reconfigure the transit center accordingly. The last RIDOT study didn't get far enough into detail to spec exactly how they plan to do that, but in all likelihood it's already been thought of because the platform lengths amid all those grade crossings are virtually useless for real-world service and they know it up-front.
That same reconfiguration concept occurred to me, too, as the likeliest Plan B in case 250-foot-long platforms wouldn't cut it. Maybe there has been a more recent RIDOT study, but I looked at the one from 2002, and their station concept at the time was for very short platforms in the block between Bridge and Elm Streets:
1756078665271.png

The study seemed to assume the only trains they would be seeing were 1-2 car long shuttles running as far out as Fall River, plus the Dinner Train, which likewise runs short trains. I wonder if they have internal concept plans they've never published...or if they've never really studied the Newport Flyer concept before.
 
Out of curiosity, I was wondering how much ridership has increased with the SCR extension over the Middleboro/Lakeville Line. The MBTA has daily estimated boarding for the commuter rail lines up through the end of July 2025 so I did a quick sort without filtering weekends dating back to July 2023 and found that the MB/LV averaged 5528 boardings, whilst the FR/NB has been averaging 8010, both including weekends. That's a 45% increase in ridership, equivalent to ~2800/day. Dating it back to 2023 like this for the Middleboro could be seen as a bit unfavorable for the line but changing it to March 2024-25 only gains back 50 daily riders, making no difference.

After filtering out weekends and holidays, the percentage increase still stays the same (kinda demonstrates how more trains=proportionally more riders). Middleboro averaged 7184 daily riders, whilst the FR/NB averages 10280. For a projected 2280 riders a day in Phase I, 3096, 36% above projections, is a remarkable success despite the tribulations of the initial service and subsequent increased travel times. Speaking of the service issues, they seem not to have deterred South Coast riders at all because the weekday ridership has not been less than 8500 on any day since April 18th, which was one of only two weekdays with less than 9200 riders, both in April. On the weekend and holiday side of things, since service is still only bi-hourly, the rider gain is only 29%, but that's still on average a 584-rider increase. Overall the project seems to be paying off anf then some, but I hope that this success doesn't send the message to the state that this is enough and there should be no Phase II (though thats what it's looking like).

WeekdayMB AVGNB/FR AVG
7184
10280​

WeekendMB AVGNB/FR AVG
1988
2572​
 
Out of curiosity, I was wondering how much ridership has increased with the SCR extension over the Middleboro/Lakeville Line. The MBTA has daily estimated boarding for the commuter rail lines up through the end of July 2025 so I did a quick sort without filtering weekends dating back to July 2023 and found that the MB/LV averaged 5528 boardings, whilst the FR/NB has been averaging 8010, both including weekends. That's a 45% increase in ridership, equivalent to ~2800/day. Dating it back to 2023 like this for the Middleboro could be seen as a bit unfavorable for the line but changing it to March 2024-25 only gains back 50 daily riders, making no difference.

After filtering out weekends and holidays, the percentage increase still stays the same (kinda demonstrates how more trains=proportionally more riders). Middleboro averaged 7184 daily riders, whilst the FR/NB averages 10280. For a projected 2280 riders a day in Phase I, 3096, 36% above projections, is a remarkable success despite the tribulations of the initial service and subsequent increased travel times. Speaking of the service issues, they seem not to have deterred South Coast riders at all because the weekday ridership has not been less than 8500 on any day since April 18th, which was one of only two weekdays with less than 9200 riders, both in April. On the weekend and holiday side of things, since service is still only bi-hourly, the rider gain is only 29%, but that's still on average a 584-rider increase. Overall the project seems to be paying off anf then some, but I hope that this success doesn't send the message to the state that this is enough and there should be no Phase II (though thats what it's looking like).

WeekdayMB AVGNB/FR AVG
7184
10280​

WeekendMB AVGNB/FR AVG
1988
2572​
Thanks for crunching the numbers. I always strongly believed that the projections were low and that the actual numbers would exceed expectations. It's a success in that people are using the service, but it's still just the least bad option. It's not good enough to lure new people to the area in significant numbers and it's not enough to have the economic impact that has been touted for decades. Those things won't happen without Phase II.
 
Thanks for crunching the numbers. I always strongly believed that the projections were low and that the actual numbers would exceed expectations. It's a success in that people are using the service, but it's still just the least bad option. It's not good enough to lure new people to the area in significant numbers and it's not enough to have the economic impact that has been touted for decades. Those things won't happen without Phase II.
SCR in combination with the major redevelopment of the waterfront in Fall River/removal of MA-79 is absolutely having a big economic impact over there. A pretty rare case of the DOT and a municipality working together to create loads of developable parcels near a transit station.
 
I thought the ridership numbers would tank once people realized how slow and inefficient the service was. Glad to be proven wrong. And those figures are with terminal stations that lack strong connections to the local bus network.
 
I thought the ridership numbers would tank once people realized how slow and inefficient the service was. Glad to be proven wrong. And those figures are with terminal stations that lack strong connections to the local bus network.
I was skeptical that the ridership would remain after the free parking ended because I figured those who got in a car to drive to the train anyway would just drive all the way to the city if the alternative was $4 parking + $24 in fares every day. Very positive showing of the demand for the rail service, and I hope the T can use it to properly convince the state that Phase II is a very worthwhile investment.

If I had to guess, I'd think the T strategy, since Phase II is intended to be electrified, is to wait for the Fairmount BEMU project to be in practice, then test the trains on the Stoughton, and use that knowledge to come up with some plan to reduce the electrification of Phase II to bring the cost down and make it more presentable to the state. It'd make sense in this case why the T had no mention of Phase II in their 2026-2030 capital investment plan, since if the BEMUs arrive in 2028, they'd want to wait out some of its service before committing project funding.
 
SCR in combination with the major redevelopment of the waterfront in Fall River/removal of MA-79 is absolutely having a big economic impact over there. A pretty rare case of the DOT and a municipality working together to create loads of developable parcels near a transit station.
I certainly agree on the cooperative effort between MassDOT and the city. It's both rare and impressive.

I'm not yet ready to credit too much of what's happening down there to Phase 1 of South Coast Rail, however. For starters, there's been some momentum along the waterfront for over a decade now with new bars, restaurants, some improvements to public spaces, etc. but only one new residential building (50ish units) has gone in during that span (2022, I believe). There have certainly been proposals floated around, but nothing has taken concrete steps toward actually happening. If/when a few residential projects move closer to reality, I might feel differently.
 
I was skeptical that the ridership would remain after the free parking ended because I figured those who got in a car to drive to the train anyway would just drive all the way to the city if the alternative was $4 parking + $24 in fares every day. Very positive showing of the demand for the rail service, and I hope the T can use it to properly convince the state that Phase II is a very worthwhile investment.

If I had to guess, I'd think the T strategy, since Phase II is intended to be electrified, is to wait for the Fairmount BEMU project to be in practice, then test the trains on the Stoughton, and use that knowledge to come up with some plan to reduce the electrification of Phase II to bring the cost down and make it more presentable to the state. It'd make sense in this case why the T had no mention of Phase II in their 2026-2030 capital investment plan, since if the BEMUs arrive in 2028, they'd want to wait out some of its service before committing project funding.

This all hinges on whether Keolis is operating the Fairmount trial on an island or whether it retains the system-wide contract. To me they’d seem favored because of the logistics of bringing in yet another operator, but I’m not on the inside. Also Keolis is only ordering seven BEMU sets for Fairmount, so there won’t me much free equipment sitting around for Stoughton trips.
 

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