Franklin Park - White Stadium Renovation

samsongam said:
It's being built almost as 2 stadiums on the parcel of one. Aside from the seating, field, and press box the city and the team has separate needs and separate resources to pay for influenced by various shareholders and the community. Separate locker rooms, separate storage, separate administration, separate medicine and fitness facilities, separate lounge space. Without the partnership you can save costs on all those things. A whole lot more is being packed into the space than what would be necessary for a purely NWSL or BPS stadium. I think that's why you have to look at each of the $135 and $195 almost as separate stadiums. That's also why the improvements paid for by the team but accessible to the public such as maintenance, the grove, paths/lighting around the stadium, and all of the funding/community benefits make a huge difference to the costs the city will incur over the next 15 years. If you ignore the costs of the NWSL half ($195M) and just take the money the city is spending on the stadium minus the maintenance and benefit package from BUSP that's $70M net in 15 years.
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I agree with your analysis here, but I think it shows precisely why this is a bad idea. Basically:
  1. The Legacy is paying for a stadium that is more complicated than it needs to be in order to accommodate BPS
  2. BPS is paying for a stadium that is more complicated than it needs to be in order to accommodate the Legacy
  3. Both of those projects are bolted together in a way that complicates construction and finance and approvals, etc.
The upside of this arrangement for the Legacy is that the City / BPS provides the land and does much of the work. As Bob Kraft has found, finding land suitable for a stadium and getting the approval of local governments is extremely hard in the Boston area. So partnering with the City benefits the Legacy greatly.

But what is BPS actually getting for all this? A more narrowly-scoped BPS-only stadium renovation would likely have been cheaper, faster, and easier, delivering a better outcome for students and families. The powers-that-be decided to undertake this more complicated public-private partnership not for the students but as a show of support for women's professional soccer. That may or may not be a worthy goal -- opinions vary and I'm not going to get into it -- but I would argue that such a decision is outside the scope and responsibility of a public school district.
 
Another benefit is that it will be the 4th or 5th largest venue for concerts or events in the area with all the proceeds going to the city
 
Scott said:
Another benefit is that it will be the 4th or 5th largest venue for concerts or events in the area with all the proceeds going to the city
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6 if you count the DCU center (they do get some Boston area exclusive shows) and 7th after the new Revolution stadium is hopefully built.
 
Scott said:
Another benefit is that it will be the 4th or 5th largest venue for concerts or events in the area with all the proceeds going to the city
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1. Gilette - Foxborough
2. Fenway - Boston
3. Xfinity Center - Mansfield
4. Garden - Boston (looks like Xfinity fits a few more for concerts)
5. DCU Center - Worcester
6. This? (until Revs stadium is built)

Am I missing anything? It looks like Providence has a couple (Amica Pavilion and Brown Stadium) although that's obviously on the outer limits. NH doesn't have anything that big. CT (Hartford and Mohegan Sun) and Maine (Bangor) are way too far away to count as "Boston area."

I remember going to some park in Worcester for Locobazooka in the late 1990's. Not sure but I think that may have been at least 10k+ for the most popular years.
 
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>The overhaul of White Stadium is now projected to total more than $325 million, with about $190 million of that coming from the new professional women’s soccer team, Boston Legacy FC, that will share the facility with the city’s school sports teams.

Gillette Stadium, which opened in 2002, had an initial construction cost of $325 million.
 
$325 million in 2002 is worth approximately $585.55 million today, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index.
 
JumboBuc said:
But what is BPS actually getting for all this? A more narrowly-scoped BPS-only stadium renovation would likely have been cheaper, faster, and easier, delivering a better outcome for students and families. The powers-that-be decided to undertake this more complicated public-private partnership not for the students but as a show of support for women's professional soccer. That may or may not be a worthy goal -- opinions vary and I'm not going to get into it -- but I would argue that such a decision is outside the scope and responsibility of a public school district.
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BPS gets A LOT

- A new world class stadium and field facility for track and field, soccer, lacrosse, and some of the football season
- Collegiate-level eight lane track
- Sports medicine facilities
- Strength and conditioning facilities
- Flexible Indoor study and community spaces
- Offices for BPS athletics staff
- Maintenance, cleaning, and security paid for
- $8 million from revenue sharing with the team to a new citywide BPS specific fund to help fund transportation, jerseys, equipment, etc.

They probably don't get any of this with a BPS-only renovation and definitely not up to the standard that it will be. The only thing that is not an improvement compared to any run of the mill high school venue is fewer games for 2 football teams out of dozens of high school athletic programs.

If you add in the benefits for the city and Franklin Park then the benefits are wide reaching, and considering the financial and political struggles that left White Stadium in the state it was over the past decades, this is an incredible outcome. That's all before any of the vague value to local businesses, new construction jobs, and new stadium jobs you hear from other stadium proposals, which is debatable.

Again, if you forget about the value of the $190 million NWSL facilities and stands (which are also completely owned by the city and rented to the team, and the city can get revenue from if they host events) then this stadium costs $70 million in 15 years. A bad faith prediction made by the group suing the city about the stadium, estimates a BPS-only facility to cost $64.6 million. They actually updated that from their previous proposal to include additional vague community amenities which are closer (but still inferior) to the city's plan. That's just construction, no upkeep and no community benefit packages. Over 15 years, the BPS-only plan is way more expensive than the NWSL partnered plan. So the alternative isn't cheaper. It's taken decades for us to get here, so i'm not sure the alternative is faster. And the facilities would not be up to the standard and as wide reaching as they will be so it's not better for the students.
 
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DZH22 said:
1. Gilette - Foxborough
2. Fenway - Boston
3. Xfinity Center - Mansfield
4. Garden - Boston (looks like Xfinity fits a few more for concerts)
5. DCU Center - Worcester
6. This? (until Revs stadium is built)

Am I missing anything? It looks like Providence has a couple (Amica Pavilion and Brown Stadium) although that's obviously on the outer limits. NH doesn't have anything that big. CT (Hartford and Mohegan Sun) and Maine (Bangor) are way too far away to count as "Boston area."

I remember going to some park in Worcester for Locobazooka in the late 1990's. Not sure but I think that may have been at least 10k+ for the most popular years.
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Well the capacity of White Stadium for soccer is 11,000, but for concerts it may approach 13,000 to 14,000 and also Boston Calling draws 40,000 to 50,000 per day at Harvard Stadium
 
samsongam said:
BPS gets A LOT

- A new world class stadium and field facility for track and field, soccer, lacrosse, and some of the football season
- Collegiate-level eight lane track
- Sports medicine facilities
- Strength and conditioning facilities
- Flexible Indoor study and community spaces
- Offices for BPS athletics staff
- Maintenance, cleaning, and security paid for
- $8 million from revenue sharing with the team to a new citywide BPS specific fund to help fund transportation, jerseys, equipment, etc.

They probably don't get any of this with a BPS-only renovation and definitely not up to the standard that it will be. The only thing that is not an improvement compared to any run of the mill high school venue is fewer games for 2 football teams out of dozens of high school athletic programs.

If you add in the benefits for the city and Franklin Park then the benefits are wide reaching, and considering the financial and political struggles that left White Stadium in the state it was over the past decades, this is an incredible outcome. That's all before any of the vague value to local businesses, new construction jobs, and new stadium jobs you hear from other stadium proposals, which is debatable.

Again, if you forget about the value of the $190 million NWSL facilities and stands (which are also completely owned by the city and rented to the team, and the city can get revenue from if they host events) then this stadium costs $70 million in 15 years. A bad faith prediction made by the group suing the city about the stadium, estimates a BPS-only facility to cost $64.6 million. They actually updated that from their previous proposal to include additional vague community amenities which are closer (but still inferior) to the city's plan. That's just construction, no upkeep and no community benefit packages. Over 15 years, the BPS-only plan is way more expensive than the NWSL partnered plan. So the alternative isn't cheaper. It's taken decades for us to get here, so i'm not sure the alternative is faster. And the facilities would not be up to the standard and as wide reaching as they will be so it's not better for the students.
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There aren't good comps for this for high schools (because why would a high school ever blow so much money on a stadium???) but there are many comps at the college level. Plenty of architecture firms specialize in these NCAA super-high-end recruitment-tool athletic facilities, and they consistently run in the tens of millions.

The current rate for a brand new NCAA track facility is generally in the single-digit millions (see: Ithaca College, University of Hartford, Eastern Michigan). At the varsity Division I power conference level, the University of Nebraska has a track facility under construction for $10.5 million.
Lincoln – Nebraska Athletics celebrated the groundbreaking of a state-of-the-art Track and Field Complex, marking the beginning of a $10.5 million enhancement to its athletic facilities. The complex’s phase two was approved by the University of Nebraska Board of Regents in September and will elevate the University’s track and field capabilities and provide a high-quality environment for athletes and spectators alike.

The second phase of this ambitious project will feature permanent bleacher seating to accommodate approximately 2,000 spectators, offering clear sightlines for fans to enjoy the action. The upgraded facilities will also include restrooms, indoor practice throwing areas, hospitality spaces, concessions and team-changing areas to support both athletes and visitors. Designed by Lincoln-based architecture firm Clark & Enersen and built by Hausman Construction, the facility is scheduled for completion by October 2025.
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Cornell is building a new fieldhouse that includes a full-size indoor field plus team rooms, restrooms, offices, etc. for $68.7 million.

Penn State's new Erie Hall cost just over $28 million.

BC's new "Hoag Pavilion" basketball facility has an estimated price of $37 million.
The brand new dedicated strength and conditioning space is immediately adjacent and open to the practice court, allowing teams to move easily between practice and strength training, with space for athletes that are rehabilitating, so they can remain a part of the team activities as they recover.
Downstairs below the weight room is the new sports medicine suite which includes a hydrotherapy room with a sunken treadmill pool, along with hot and cold plunge pools for recovery. Immediately down the hallway are the men’s and women’s team lounge areas that lead to the respective locker rooms. The spacious wet cores contain exaggerated sized showers, additional prep areas with towel service, and personal storage spaces. A new nutrition area is suitable for team gathering and large enough to accommodate both teams for casual catered dining, study, team meetings, or guest speakers.
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The closest comp to White Stadium price-wise is SDSU's new Snapdragon Stadium which opened in 2022 for $310 million and over 3x the size of White Stadium.

There is simply no justification to spend over $100 million for a high school sports field. And this is not an issue of "suburban / private school kids get it but BPS kids don't" because no suburban or private schools are spending anywhere near that amount!
 
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@JumboBuc I feel like you haven't addressed any of the information I've provided. I told you that the main reasons why it costs so much is the cost of building in one of the most expensive cities in the US. So you provide comparisons of much smaller renovations (many of which are also very expensive and only with one tenant in mind) in Ypsilanti, Ithaca, Hartford, and State College. Even the Hoag Pavillion is not an arena or stadium, maybe it's comparable to the portion of the cost the city is paying for the similar BPS amenities, but not for an entire stadium as well.

Snapdragon is probably the best comparison you've offered. I think you can reasonably compare the $310 million spent by SDSU to the $135 million spent by the city. That stadium is shared with 3 tenants and will host much fewer events per year than White Stadium. The NWSL and MLS team have also already had problems with SDSU football destroying the pitch.

Its not about simply comparing the cost of this stadium to any suburban facility. Economically, it's about the amount of money this project unlocks in the long run and that the city will be making money every year as long as the team plays there. If you believe that BPS deserves a better stadium than what White Stadium was, then address how the city is saving on maintenance compared to building the stadium themselves. Address the direct alternative proposal costing $64.6 million which will be brought up in court, is that too much money to invest in Boston Public Schools? And is that really less expensive over time than the current deal? Address the amount of money the city will receive towards the Franklin Park Action Plan and community benefits. And don't forget about all the city events that currently use Franklin Park and the value of these facilities to the community. City of Boston is paying 40% of costs for 100% of ownership and control of a $325 million stadium with incoming direct funding through rent, revenue sharing, large event revenue, and community funds increasing with inflation. How is that bad for the city?

Personally I don't think we should care how much money the NWSL owners decide to spend. As long as they are able to sustain it, we should try to get as much out of them as possible. I'm excited to support the team and it shouldn't come at the cost of the city. But who are the losers of investing private money into a public facility, while it remains completely publicly owned, access almost doubles and there is no public upkeep cost. Public-private parterships usually come with a lot more downsides and concessions than that.
 
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DZH22 said:
Am I missing anything? It looks like Providence has a couple (Amica Pavilion and Brown Stadium) although that's obviously on the outer limits. NH doesn't have anything that big.
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Actually, NH does: the SNHU arena, and it strongly parallels the AMICA pavilion when you consider the "comps":

1.) seating capacity: SNHU seats 10k hockey/11k basketball/11k concerts; AMICA seats 11k hockey/12k basketball/14k concerts
2.) driving distance from Boston's CBD: 50 miles for SNHU (via I-93); 45 miles for AMICA (via I-93/I-95)
3.) relationship to urban context: both are pretty optimal in terms of being located in dead-prime downtown. AMICA is just a 300-yd walk to Kennedy Plaza; SNHU is the exact same distance from the densest, most appealing stretch of Elm St. corridor in Downtown Manchester (aka "ManchVegas")
 
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Scott said:
$325 million in 2002 is worth approximately $585.55 million today, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index.
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It's also worth nothing that the Krafts recently spent $250 million on upgrades. Adding that to the original spend, factoring inflation for all, we are probably looking at an $850 million stadium in Foxboro.
 
HenryAlan said:
It's also worth nothing that the Krafts recently spent $250 million on upgrades. Adding that to the original spend, factoring inflation for all, we are probably looking at an $850 million stadium in Foxboro.
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We should also note that, as pointed out a million times, there is no way of quantifying an actual public benefit to NFL stadiums, unlike White Stadium where it is all spelled out in the lease agreement.

dotnews.com

City’s White Stadium costs put at $135m - Dorchester Reporter

The newly constructed White Stadium sports facility will cost the city $135 million, Mayor Michelle Wu announced last Friday at the William Devine clubhouse in Franklin Park.
dotnews.com dotnews.com
 
Scott said:
$325 million in 2002 is worth approximately $585.55 million today, according to the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics Consumer Price Index.
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And this will be 60% of that current value cost with 1/6 the seats……..IF the $325 million is the final cost.
 
Near zero quantifiable public benefit from Foxboro but it has cost the taxpayers millions over the years in transit and roadwork. Look at the World Cup, some seats cost $30,000 and they now expect the taxpayers to pay for their security. I actually like the Patriots and attend games but I do not think that because of my interests, that you should have to get up in the morning and go to work to make a billionaire wealthier.
However, the quantifiable benefit to White Stadium is spelled out in the lease agreement.
 
"While the project’s demolition is complete, abatement and subsurface utility foundation work are ongoing, including upgraded power, water and telecommunications infrastructure set to finish this fall. Bond Building Construction Inc., the construction manager-at-risk for the city’s east half of the project, has completed the below-grade utility relocation phase, Carolyn Campot, a Bond spokeswoman, told ENR in an email.
We are preparing for the first concrete pours for new building footings in February and will commence steel erection in April,” Campot said."
www.enr.com

Boston’s Pro Women’s Soccer Stadium Price Tag Soars to $325 million

Boston Legacy Football Club privately raised $190 million to fund the the city's White Stadium.
www.enr.com www.enr.com
 
Scott said:
Near zero quantifiable public benefit from Foxboro but it has cost the taxpayers millions over the years in transit and roadwork. Look at the World Cup, some seats cost $30,000 and they now expect the taxpayers to pay for their security. I actually like the Patriots and attend games but I do not think that because of my interests, that you should have to get up in the morning and go to work to make a billionaire wealthier.
However, the quantifiable benefit to White Stadium is spelled out in the lease agreement.
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"Near zero quantifiable public benefit from Foxboro"????????

Is that written as comedy?????? I've seen some strange statements over the years, but that one is special.

Are you saying the AT LEAST $135 million the City of Boston is investing in White Stadium will bring anywhere near the economic benefits to the public as the $70 million the Commonwealth of Massachusetts invested in the transit infrastructure around Gillette Stadium/Patriot Place? Hell, I wouldn't be surprised if the overall longterm economic benefits to Rhode Island from the Patriots and those concerts, etc. (when jobs, hotels, restautants, TF Green, etc. are taken into account) are greater than what Boston will get out of White Stadium!

- Patriot Place ALONE is the #1 largest shopping center in Massachusetts (slightly ahead of South Shore Plaza) and employs over 6,000 people.

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www.blacklinere.com

- Gillette Stadium was 100% financed by the team.

- The entire Commonwealth kicked in $70 million for transit and road improvements/egresses for the stadium (this is at least $65 million less than what White Stadium is going to cost Boston BEFORE THE NEXT UPWARD REVISION is admitted by Wu in the next several months).

from AI Overview about The Team:

The New England Patriots generate a significant economic impact on Massachusetts, anchored by Gillette Stadium in Foxborough, which
contributes roughly $2–3 million annually to the town in ticket revenue. The team boosts local business, with playoff runs increasing restaurant revenue by 20% in nearby areas and supporting regional tourism with thousands of hotel bookings.

Key aspects of the Patriots' economic impact include:
  • Foxborough Revenue: The Town of Foxborough receives $1.82 per ticket for Patriots and Revolution games, totaling millions annually.
  • Local Business Boost: Restaurants and businesses in the vicinity, such as in Walpole, report a "buzz" and a 20% increase in revenue during successful, high-profile seasons.
  • Regional Economic Impact: Games drive tourism to the surrounding area, with Providence, Rhode Island hotels benefiting from teams staying outside of Boston.
  • Development and Infrastructure: The Kraft Group has invested in local infrastructure and is involved in developing surrounding areas, including a planned $500M soccer stadium project in Everett.
  • Community Investment: The team and its players contribute to local initiatives, such as the Kraft Family/Patriots Player Collaborative Fund providing broadband internet to hundreds of families.
And all that is BEFORE calculating in the economic revenue and jobs benefits to Foxboro and the Commonwealth from Patriot Place alone
Here from 2013 when it was about 75% of the size it is now: https://patch.com/massachusetts/fox...patriot-place-well-ahead-of-project889013ab4b
 
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There are no quantifiable benefits because they will not talk numbers, much less study it and that rhetoric shows what I mean.

Here's some AI numbers for ya:
$70 million in road improvements in 2000 is equivalent in purchasing power to approximately $131.76 million today (2026), representing an 88.22% cumulative price increase over 26 years. The average inflation rate was 2.46% per year, meaning that it takes roughly $1.88 today to match the purchasing power of $1 in 2000. The state also invested $35M in a train station making a state total of at least $166M to upgrade a small stretch of Rt 1 to the exclusive benefit of this stadium.

Now, the state should make investments like this but don't let some billionaire and his buddies try to convince you that they did it without significant public funds.
 
If the city wants to get the White Stadium budget down to a more reasonable number without decreasing capacity or amenities, all they need to do is delete the elaborate roof canopy over the stands, which is completely unnecessary. It seems like kind of a no-brainer to me.
 
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