Gillette Stadium Transportatio Improvements

[KCasiglio]

Why across Rt. 1 and not the lots north of the stadium that are closer to the station? Crossing Rt. 1 is...not pleasant. I can't imagine rail service would influence development there meaningfully one way or the other

 

[ritchiew]

Easier access to Gillette Stadium and Patriots Place via train provides 'enormous' value to Kraft. Parking lot $$ is chump-change in comparison. Kraft's preference would be developing portions of the vast wasteland of parkinglots accross Rt 1 that currently remain empty all but 20 days a year. A section of parking-lot that holds 250 cars could generate about $250k a year. A hotel with 150 rooms, on that same footprint could generate $8-10 million annually, the lease would be 7-12%, making the income anywhere from $700k to $1.2. And many of the hotel guests will be spending more $$ at Patriot Place or Gillette. View attachment 66734

Yeah, that's a good point. But that might be a bit off from what I was trying to say. I think the difference might be between "frequent, all-day service" and "event service."

If Foxboro got frequent, all day rail service, then yes, you're right, that land would be worth more. Kraft would absolutely want that, and they could change parking lots to higher yield investments like more hotels. But it is understandable that Kraft isn't chipping in for that, because that would require system-wide upgrades. That would require things likes lots of double tracking, vast electrification, new trains, and on and on. It will cost billions of dollars. There's no amount Kraft could chip in that would meaningfully help those projects along, but still be a good ROI for the company.

Mostly what we've been talking about in this thread is just better event service. I don't think event service alone really makes a hotel (or any other new development) more financially attractive. The whole place will still be incredibly car-centric 340-ish days per year. Getting better event train service is totally within the budget of the Krafts. That'd be chump change. But I don't think they have any motivation to improve game-day public transit. If anything it would make all their existing parking less valuable.

 

[HenryAlan]

Why across Rt. 1 and not the lots north of the stadium that are closer to the station? Crossing Rt. 1 is...not pleasant. I can't imagine rail service would influence development there meaningfully one way or the other

They are supposedly building a tunnel under bridge over route 1 at some point, but I think your point is valid regardless. Save those lots for event related parking overflow, and build housing, hotel, meeting space, more retail, and if need be garages on the stadium side.

[edit]It's evidently a bridge, and not a tunnel: [/edit]

Proposed pedestrian walkway over Route 1 to access Gillette Stadium approved by Foxboro board

FOXBORO — A long-sought pedestrian overpass spanning Route 1 at Gillette Stadium finally seems to be gaining traction with local and state policymakers.

www.thesunchronicle.com

 

[cooper]

Yeah, that's a good point. But that might be a bit off from what I was trying to say. I think the difference might be between "frequent, all-day service" and "event service."

If Foxboro got frequent, all day rail service, then yes, you're right, that land would be worth more. Kraft would absolutely want that, and they could change parking lots to higher yield investments like more hotels. But it is understandable that Kraft isn't chipping in for that, because that would require system-wide upgrades. That would require things likes lots of double tracking, vast electrification, new trains, and on and on. It will cost billions of dollars. There's no amount Kraft could chip in that would meaningfully help those projects along, but still be a good ROI for the company.

Mostly what we've been talking about in this thread is just better event service. I don't think event service alone really makes a hotel (or any other new development) more financially attractive. The whole place will still be incredibly car-centric 340-ish days per year. Getting better event train service is totally within the budget of the Krafts. That'd be chump change. But I don't think they have any motivation to improve game-day public transit. If anything it would make all their existing parking less valuable.

The politics between the town and the Kraft Group are essential to the future development of the area. If the commuter gods could wave a magic wand... and 25k people arrived at stadium events via public transportation, it would be a 'dream come true' for the Kraft group. Over time, 35-40% of those 'sacred' parking lots would be fully developed.

Keeping 8-10k cars out of the area on event day provides a far better experience for the remaining 15k who do bring their cars. It also eases local traffic during events for the locals. Nimbyism is a thing in Foxboro. Development in Patriot Place benefits all.

older write up, but you get the idea

 

[cooper]

They are supposedly building a tunnel under bridge over route 1 at some point, but I think your point is valid regardless. Save those lots for event related parking overflow, and build housing, hotel, meeting space, more retail, and if need be garages on the stadium side.

[edit]It's evidently a bridge, and not a tunnel: [/edit]

Proposed pedestrian walkway over Route 1 to access Gillette Stadium approved by Foxboro board

FOXBORO — A long-sought pedestrian overpass spanning Route 1 at Gillette Stadium finally seems to be gaining traction with local and state policymakers.

www.thesunchronicle.com

The pedestrian bridge has been approved

 

[themissinglink]

MBTA readies for March test run of World Cup transit plan

MBTA officials are planning to use a FIFA friendly match next month in Foxborough to test an ambitious plan to move tens of thousands of soccer fans to and from World Cup matches this summer.

www.wcvb.com

Chief Operating Officer Ryan Coholan said the MBTA plans to run 14 commuter rail train sets for each match, including two spare sets for resiliency, with direct service between South Station and Foxborough. Coholan said trains will not make intermediate stops, a change from typical Patriots game service, to reduce uncertainty and speed up boarding and unloading.
The first World Cup match is on June 13 at 9 p.m. In her presentation to the MBTA Board, Mazza pointed out that the day's operations will be complicated by a Red Sox game at Fenway Park and, potentially, a Pride Parade. The friendly match that will be used as a test case by the MBTA is scheduled for March 26 at 4 p.m.
Coholan said the MBTA will test its approach by running four dedicated trains for the friendly match and practicing "recycling" equipment to maximize capacity.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

MBTA readies for March test run of World Cup transit plan

MBTA officials are planning to use a FIFA friendly match next month in Foxborough to test an ambitious plan to move tens of thousands of soccer fans to and from World Cup matches this summer.

www.wcvb.com

I wonder whose service is going to need to be cut to make that happen. 14 sets + 2 spares (and I'm assuming these will all have to be max-length all- bi-levels to swallow the crowds) is an ENORMOUS equipment commitment. 6 of the 7 Foxboro WC games are scheduled on weekdays, so somebodies on other lines are going to have to lose peak-period service to make that happen at all. They can probably make the absolute dispatching work at that frequency by fileting the nonstops between the NEC and Fairmount Line (though I have to imagine thru-Franklin service is going to be completely hosed because the game trains gobble up 100% of available Norwood-Walpole single-track meets), but it's going to come at a painful cost for all the equipment that needs to be raided from elsewhere. They definitely don't have enough laying around for that extreme a surge.

 

[DBM]

Meanwhile... 105 days left until Haiti vs. Scotland, and the standoff continues over who is going to pay Foxboro's security outlay. This story (no paywall) is fairly comprehensive and, not surprisingly, quite sympathetic to the municipality's cause/perspective, as I suppose most local media coverage has been.

Grasping for the best historical analogy here--maybe it would be as if Eisenhower had to cancel the entire Normandy invasion in March 1944 due to just one of the landing divisions' Higgins landing boat operators striking over back payment owed?

Anyway, this is both hilarious, absurd, and kind of inspiring, especially as we approach the nation's 250th anniversary celebration, with the Foxboro select board symbolizing the plucky defiant Minutemen and the whole FIFA/Kraft/federal government conglomeration representing the awesome might and arrogance of the British Empire...

 

[JumboBuc]

Grasping for the best historical analogy here--maybe it would be as if Eisenhower had to cancel the entire Normandy invasion in March 1944 due to just one of the landing divisions' Higgins landing boat operators striking over back payment owed?

I can't decide if comparing the staging of seven soccer matches to the Invasion of Normandy is incredibly offensive or only just preposterous.

I'm also having a hard time finding any reason that the Town of Foxborough should agree to spend $7+ million on this event with no clear recourse for how they'll be paid back. Even the local World Cup organizing committee is unable to explain where this future money will come from.

The first local analogy that jumps to my mind would be GE's downsizing of their Boston HQ, where pre-agreed contracts specified that the Commonwealth would be paid back their $87 million if GE didn't follow through on its committments. GE did end up downsizing and selling the building and MassDevelopment got paid back as a result. It all worked out!

That's what the Town wants: either money up front or a real binding committment from an entity that will continue to exist long enough to pay them back. The Kraft Group is such an entity, so if repayment is such a sure thing then why doesn't Kraft just front the cash? It's peanuts to them. But Kraft's also not willing to front the money probably because they know there's a good chance that this purported future funding source will never materialize, and now the Town is calling out that exact point.

 

[as02155]

purported future funding source

that's our federal government, isn't it?

 

[DBM]

I can't decide if comparing the staging of seven soccer matches to the Invasion of Normandy is incredibly offensive or only just preposterous.

I was merely pointing out that the ridiculously trivial aspect of the outstanding $7M, in proportion to the colossal logistical mobilization for all of World Cup Boston, would be highly analogous to all of the Normandy invasion being scrapped due to a strike by a single Higgins boat operator.... needless to say, you're more than welcome to propose a different analogy that doesn't run the risk of offending the

[checks notes]

zero.point.zero Normandy veterans on this site.

 

[JumboBuc]

that's our federal government, isn't it?

There's $625 million in a bill passed last year but it's all held up between DHS and FEMA and political wrangling. At the current moment, $0 have been committed. And even if everything were functioning perfectly and that $625 were all committed, it's unclear how much of that would be earmarked for the Town of Foxborough as opposed to all the other hands that will be out asking for money.

How the 2026 World Cup got caught up in a U.S. government funding fight

Public rhetoric over a government shutdown has put the World Cup in focus, with security funding U.S. host cities need being held up

www.nytimes.com

EDIT: See also, this Globe editorial. Everyone involved knows there's a funding shortfall for this whole thing, and the Town doesn't want to be left with an uncovered bill.

 

[JumboBuc]

I was merely pointing out that the ridiculously trivial aspect of the outstanding $7M, in proportion to the colossal logistical mobilization for all of World Cup Boston, would be highly analogous to all of the Normandy invasion being scrapped due to a strike by a single Higgins boat operator.... needless to say, you're more than welcome to propose a different analogy that doesn't run the risk of offending the

[checks notes]

zero.point.zero Normandy veterans on this site.

The entity in charge or providing security at the Foxboro World Cup matches is the Town of Foxborough. FIFA themselves are responsible for security inside the stadium but everything outside of that falls to local authorities (i.e., the Town of Foxborough plus any support they can get from State and Federal agencies). So really, this $7+ million bill is a significant portion of everything the local organizing committee is tasked with.

And my analogy to the GE commitment still stands: facilitate the private action but get signed contracts with enforceable legal recourse up front. The Town has asked for that and the organizers keep saying no.

 

[as02155]

organizers keep saying no

This seems so odd - premier global event where no politician (or rich person supporting this) at the state or federal level is willing to cut a check for. Smells so funny. Are they going to go-fund-me the costs?

 

[as02155]

highly analogous to all of the Normandy invasion

What an odd analogy. Say more about how relatable this is?

 

[Charlie_mta]

zero.point.zero Normandy veterans on this site.

I'm old. but not quite that old, LOL.

 

[DBM]

What an odd analogy. Say more about how relatable this is?

How "relatable" what is? Like, Taylor Swift is relatable to my nine-year-old daughter? It's really quite basic, and not remotely odd:

--The Normandy invasion was an unfathomably vast mobilization involving incredibly intricate, delicate, interdependent logistics
--FIFA World Cup 2026 USA, of which the Boston games/regional preparation are obviously an indispensable component, is an unfathomably vast mobilization involving incredibly intricate, delicate, interdependent logistics.

--Now comes the Foxboro Select Board, which to their infinite credit (given that FIFA is the most corrupt international organization) has thrown a spanner into the works re: the required $7M security posting. The Foxboro Select Board is absurdly disempowered and insignificant compared to the combined power/influence of FIFA/Kraft Group/federal government; nevertheless, what if no one posts the money and they don't issue the license?

If the Boston component of the World Cup then doesn't happen, that sets off of a massive cascade of consequences that could completely destabilize the aforementioned highly intricate, delicate, interdependent logistics of the overall World Cup effort--much akin to a Higgins boat operator going on strike on the eve of the Normandy invasion and thus initiating a similar domino effect...

 

[as02155]

-FIFA World Cup 2026 USA [...] an unfathomably vast mobilization involving incredibly intricate, delicate, interdependent logistics

FIFA world cup is a mostly commercial megaevent - however, it is something that late-stage capitalism has become fairly adept at procuring - the bread & circuses of it all. While it may have some complexity - let's not get confused about the calibre of Operation Overlord versus a largely corporate event for rich people. Even if it is more complicated than working out who is bringing which dish to the potluck.

 

[JumboBuc]

FIFA world cup is a mostly commercial megaevent - however, it is something that late-stage capitalism has become fairly adept at procuring - the bread & circuses of it all. While it may have some complexity - let's not get confused about the calibre of Operation Overlord versus a largely corporate event for rich people. Even if it is more complicated than working out who is bringing which dish to the potluck.

Right - this World Cup is using 100% pre-existing stadiums / hotels / training grounds / tv studios / facilities /etc., in the NFL offseason. It's also displacing other events (summer concert series, MLS, Liga MX, PWSL, other international soccer tournaments, etc.) that would be using those venues in the "typical" June-July period.

In the same period last year, Gillette hosted:

1. The Weeknd June 10
2. The Weeknd June 11
3. Revolution - FC Cincinnati June 14
4. George Strait June 21
5. Revolution - Nashville SC June 25
6. Revolution - Colorado Rapids June 28
7. Revolution - Inter Miami (w/ Messi) July 9
8. Coldplay July 15
9. Coldplay July 16

That's 6 sell-outs, plus three lower-attendance soccer matches.
This year they'll host 7 World Cup matches.

No concerts will come to Gillette until August and Revs/Legacy games will be on hold or offsite from late-May through the end of July.

The World Cup is 104 matches played at 16 stadiums (in 3 countries) over 6 weeks, averaging just over 17 matches per week.
The NFL regular season is 272 games played at 36 stadiums (in 6 countries) over 18 weeks, averaging just over 15 games per week.

That's not to say the World Cup is no big deal -- it is! -- but it's not nearly as big a deal here as it is staging it in less developed countries (South Africa, Qatar, etc.) that don't have as developed muscles as North America does at this sort of thing. We're extremely good here at selling out and televising football games in football stadiums!

"The invasion of Normandy" this is not.

One major difference is that the NFL, and its individual teams, pick up the tab for security in and around their stadiums! FIFA makes no such commitment. And World Cup games are higher profile globally, so they require more globally-focused security. There, really, is the rub.

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

MBTA to Run Four Event Trains to March 26 Road to 26 Brazil vs. France Friendly Match | News | MBTA

Official website of the MBTA -- schedules, maps, and fare information for Greater Boston's public transportation system, including subway, commuter rail, bus routes, and boat lines.

www.mbta.com

T releases its schedule for the Thursday, March 26 Brazil vs. France friendly, which is the service tune-up for the real World Cup transit strategy.

As expected, running that much extra service proves to be a bloodbath for regularly-scheduled southside service because of all the vultured trainsets and an oversaturated Franklin-Fairmount mainline. Sucks bigtime to be a Fairmount, Forge Park, or Foxboro (regular-service schedule) rider that day. 60-90 minute Fairmount frequencies and no Readville Station service after 12:00pm, no regular Foxboro service meaning the inner Franklin Line gets decimated, 5 canceled Forge Park trains. If that's just for the tune-up, it's only going to be worse for the real World Cup where most of the Gillette games are scheduled for weekdays.


EDIT: All this disruption is only for 4 Gillette trains. In the real World Cup it'll be 14 to spread the damage that much more widespread. The gains to event ridership can't possibly come close to offsetting the ridership losses from disruption to other commutes.