Portland Passenger Rail

[MarkHB]

I could see a seasonal Sebago Lake and Fryeburg for passengers. I wonder what Maine would've thought had Conway been in their state instead of New Hampshire.

Everyplace the MD comes near Sebago is within the Portland Water District's protected watershed; you'd get many more recreation opportunities by bringing Cape back into Metro and restoring summer bus service to Crescent Beach. Fryeburg is a substantial draw one week a year. And if there wasn't a business case for commuter rail from Steep Falls pre-Covid, there certainly isn't now.

 

[Ryanontherails]

Everyplace the MD comes near Sebago is within the Portland Water District's protected watershed; you'd get many more recreation opportunities by bringing Cape back into Metro and restoring summer bus service to Crescent Beach. Fryeburg is a substantial draw one week a year. And if there wasn't a business case for commuter rail from Steep Falls pre-Covid, there certainly isn't now.

Apparently I should've taken another look at a map before I posted, as I misremembered that the Mountain Division passed a built up area near Sebago Lake and it does not. Fryeburg isn't just the fair but also the Saco River though.

 

[Still Tom Nevers]

A couple of photos of the new station in Wells taken while on the northbound train this evening.

 

[MarkHB]

Nice! It's also really noticeable from the Turnpike overpass now, too, which the old platform wasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see a big Downeaster logo sign on the overpass facing the highway by the time they're done.

 

[TC_zoid]

NNEPRA has public forums coming up for Saco and Freeport next week. I use the Saco station sometimes and have a list of concerns. Last week, I came in on the 7:30 train and all the doors were locked so I couldn't go inside to wait for my pickup. It wasn't cold or windy, so not that big of a deal. However, inside there were 4 or 5 people sitting, talking, and napping with their "stuff lying around." The last time I saw a police car in the station area was maybe 2 years ago, and have used the station dozens of times since then. They are afraid to confront loitering and I know why--we all do. In Boston's North Station they solved this problem with everyone entering or leaving the waiting area required to scan a purchased ticket QR code. Of course, there are attendants and food service employees nearby to observe shenanigans. PTC should have a 24/7 Dunkin adjacent to the building on the east side. There's room. Put it in a shipping container with their logo and and a nice Maine scene on the exterior, like a U-Haul truck has. Proper food and drink offerings can add a lot to an experience. 255 market rate apartments are now under construction across from PTC, and a 150 room new Marriot finishes up this summer next to the Children's Museum. That's nearly 1,000 extra people in the area. A Dunkin or Starbucks would be hoppin' all day and night.

 

[TC_zoid]

Nice! It's also really noticeable from the Turnpike overpass now, too, which the old platform wasn't. I wouldn't be surprised to see a big Downeaster logo sign on the overpass facing the highway by the time they're done.

We are going to see more Boston commuters at Wells. The train goes faster now, and Wells is an hour 45 to North Station. Live in Maine and work in Boston. Many people who work in Manhattan commute over 2 hours. And for Boston, it's not much less.

 

[MarkHB]

Taking the early train in as I have done from time to time, the busy stops after Portland are Wells and Exeter. The latter really seems to act like an extension of the T commuter rail at this point.

 

[PWMFlyer]

Which I keep asking the question, Do we really need to have Amtrak vs Commuter Rail "T" or Metro North/LIRR. If Amtrak went to Penn Station or Grand Central, then it would be a different story. We just need an affordable ride to North Station. Plus you cannot connect to South Station without riding the T or an uber ride. It doesn't make sense. How much more does it cost using the Amtrak brand?

 

[F-Line to Dudley]

Which I keep asking the question, Do we really need to have Amtrak vs Commuter Rail "T" or Metro North/LIRR. If Amtrak went to Penn Station or Grand Central, then it would be a different story. We just need an affordable ride to North Station. Plus you cannot connect to South Station without riding the T or an uber ride. It doesn't make sense. How much more does it cost using the Amtrak brand?

Amtrak is as flexible as NNEPRA wants to make it through it's PRIIA subsidy. If they want to subsidize commuter fares, they can do that easily; ConnDOT already does that for the Amtrak Valley Flyer and Springfield Shuttles to make them unified with the CTrail Hartford Line's schedules and fare structures so those slots can be load-bearing for the CTrail audience. Bringing the T to Maine requires Massachusetts reaching interstate cost-and-revenue sharing agreements with TWO other states (and good luck with that when New Hampshire already doesn't want to deal with them), because the T cannot legally run out-of-district without 1:1 compensation by third parties. They'd have to pay CSX for trackage rights past the end of theirs in Plaistow, and NNEPRA would have to reimburse them for that. They'd have to alter their already pretty rigid labor agreements to shift out-of-state train staff for a long schedule, and NNEPRA would have to reimburse them for that. They'd need to buy more equipment, and NNEPRA would pay a % share. They'd need to find a way to coherently integrate a super-express into its Haverhill Line schedules, and probably be forced by political realities to add schedule-slowing infill stops like Lawrence to satisfy in-state constituencies (regardless of where NNEPRA is paying them to run). And passengers would have to be willing to sit in T cramped bi-levels with limited luggage space for a couple hours when those cars are intrinsically less comfortable than an intercity-configured Amtrak trainset, where NNEPRA would probably be hearing some complaints about the downgrade.

It's just way easier to keep doing what they've always been doing and build off the Amtrak base. As I said, if the fares need adjusting for daily commutes there's nothing restricting NNEPRA from doing that and de facto blending an Amtrak intercity run with a commuter run. There's nothing hard-and-unyielding about riding under the Amtrak banner that makes switching carriers a decision they'd ever consider. If they want the DE to be a super-commuter rail, they can make it that...tomorrow...if they want under the current arrangement.

 

[MarkHB]

We could get into the advantages of being in the Amtrak network ticketing system, etc. etc., but the single biggest thing Amtrak brings to the table is that legally, the railroads that own the tracks can't refuse them. They can b*tch and complain and negotiate and whine about the liability situation, but they can't ultimately say no (I think Amtrak has to negotiate in good faith - they can't just say "we're coming in and paying you a dollar a day" - but in general, the railroads can't decline to come to the table). Any other operator, CSX could and most likely would just ignore them.

And given that the Downeaster only acts like a commuter rail for a couple of runs a day, and the rest of the runs are a combination of people going to medical appointments and games, the downscale, utilitarian atmosphere of a commuter service would likely result in depressed usage that whatever marginal fare decreases came as a result wouldn't make up for.