Seaport Neighborhood - Infill and Discussion

sm89 said:
lol yea after I read that I was gonna say, a majority of who have what??? That's definitely not my lived experience seeing friends, family, neighbors. That said, I do think people walking their dogs helps otherwise quiet somewhat antisocial neighbors become acquainted with others, especially the newbies with longtimers. A couple more small dog parks in my area of Dorchester would do wonders to help consolidate some of the externalities everyone's speaking of. Even if someone scoops the poop, I'm not very happy about poop residue and pee in my front lawn/garden. We put up a fence and they now just pee along the fence... But I'm a cat person, so a bit biased.
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BACsop said:
The majority of households have dogs? Not in Greater Boston: it's 26%. And I can't find any data suggesting a majority of households nationally own a dog. I don't think one can in good faith state that "a majority of people" desire dog ownership, especially in urban areas. Cities should not be bending over backwards to accommodate dog owners, who comprise a minority of households. By all means cities should plan for the presence of dogs and regulate/price them accordingly to mitigate the downsides. But cities should be prioritizing making cities more liveable for families and kids first and foremost, not dogs.
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americanpetproducts.org

U.S. Pet Industry Reaches $158 Billion in 2025, Poised for Continued Growth in 2026

U.S. Pet Industry Reaches $158 Billion in 2025, Poised for Continued Growth in 2026
americanpetproducts.org americanpetproducts.org

^according to this study, % of households with dogs increased from 51% to 53% last year.

According to census data, 37% of boston area households have a dog. According to the animal rescue league of boston, over 75% of millennial or gen Z report that they want a dog, but many don’t have one now due to financial barriers or housing restrictions. with our top notch housing crisis, it’s no surprise that our region’s lower dog ownership rate i yet another livability consequence (notwithstanding the personal benefits for the few curmudgeons in society who are anti-dog)
 
The main reason why apartments/condos ban dogs is the Dog Bite liability. Dogs tearing up the place is also an issue.

BACsop said:
Having noisy kids for neighbors is not a negative economic externality that impacts society at large, and even assuming it was, dogs can be just as loud and as much of an irritation for apartment living than kids, if not moreso.
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That's true. Dogs are also very noisy.
 
Blackbird said:
Fwiw, I am both pro-kid and pro-dog. I just can’t imagine how you can argue with a straight face that one is a burden on society and the other isn’t.
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Kids are a critically necessary part of society -- you cannot have a society at all without them -- ergo they cannot be a burden on it.
 
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stick n move said:
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If this is anything like Cosm in LA and Dallas, then this is going to be a massive hit.

Cosm-LA-Dome-4-Credit-Cosm-e1731471226224.jpg
 
We need a COSM in Boston! Would be great market for it here...
 
BACsop said:
I respectfully disagree. The issue is more than individual behavior and not just related to dog waste. If you make it more expensive and onerous to register/have a dog in the city, fewer people will have them, which in turn means fewer "bad" dog owners will have them, which in turn means fewer of the issues discussed in this thread. Trying to control human behavior through enforcement is very difficult and not particularly effective, so I am not optimistic any sort of campaign aimed at changing the behavior of bad dog owners or litterers will have much impact. Generally if you have a negative externality, whether traffic congestion, carbon emissions, smoking, or speeding, the most effective way to mitigate that externality and reduce the harm is a tax on the externality (e.g. congestion pricing, carbon tax, cigarette taxes, automated fare enforcement, respectively). I would submit it is the same with dogs in cities. There are many reasons why we should discourage dog ownership in urban areas, and to do so, I believe the most effective way would be to increase the price of dog ownership in urban areas.
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Pricing people out doesn’t target the actual behavior, it ignores that responsible owners would be punished more than negligent ones only to bend to the whims of a likely small but loud citizenry who just don’t like dogs.
The negligent ones aren’t going to register their dogs, anyway. Ultimately it would lead to community policing, where the biggest headache in the neighborhood isn’t dog poop, rather the titular chair of the dog registry police.
 
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BronsonShore said:
Kids are a critically necessary part of society -- you cannot have a society at all without them -- ergo they cannot be a burden on it.
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Never circled back on this because I generally don’t care enough, but there are PLENTY of things that are both necessary and a burden. I’d say it’s actually common for things to be both.
 
Years ago, the patron saint of this site started a discussion about what in Boston could be called "world class."

His list:
  • MFA
  • Gardner
  • Harvard Art Museums
  • Harvard University and Harvard Square
  • Beacon Hill
  • Christian Science Center
  • Durgin-Park
  • Commonwealth Avenue, Back Bay
  • Paul Revere House
  • Old North Church and the Old State House
  • Newbury Street
  • Quincy Market
  • Fenway Park
  • Symphony Hall


I genuinely think we can now add the Harborwalk to this list. In fact, I'm not sure there's another urban space anywhere in America that provides what the Seaport sections of the Harborwalk do on a Friday or Saturday night in the summer, when it becomes a free, beautiful, and energized perambulatory meeting point for the whole city. It's an American version of passeggiata.

FWIW, I'd probably also add Hanover Street/North End to the list, and maybe the Public Garden, though perhaps that's covered by Beacon Hill. In the future I'd hope that Fort Point Channel and a Storrow-less Esplanade could have an argument for inclusion.
 
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BronsonShore said:
Years ago, the patron saint of this site started a discussion about what in Boston could be called "world class."

His list:
  • MFA
  • Gardner
  • Harvard Art Museums
  • Harvard University and Harvard Square
  • Beacon Hill
  • Christian Science Center
  • Durgin-Park
  • Commonwealth Avenue, Back Bay
  • Paul Revere House
  • Old North Church and the Old State House
  • Newbury Street
  • Quincy Market
  • Fenway Park
  • Symphony Hall


I genuinely think we can now add the Harborwalk to this list. In fact, I'm not sure there's another urban space anywhere in America that provides what the Seaport sections of the Harborwalk do on a Friday or Saturday night in the summer, when it becomes a free, beautiful, and energized perambulatory meeting point for the whole city. It's an American version of passeggiata.

FWIW, I'd probably also add Hanover Street/North End to the list, and maybe the Public Garden, though perhaps that's covered by Beacon Hill. In the future I'd hope that Fort Point Channel and a Storrow-less Esplanade could have an argument for inclusion.
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Absolutely - -the Harborwalk is incredible and I have friends who have never been to Boston do that even before the Freedom Trail. Re your point about Fort Point Channel - my ultimate hope is for that to be 100% “Harborwalked” - - making it contiguous from a start to finish - I think Gillette gets it and is planning for such, but the sooner the USPS moves out the better. The potential is great.
 
BronsonShore said:
Years ago, the patron saint of this site started a discussion about what in Boston could be called "world class."

His list:
  • MFA
  • Gardner
  • Harvard Art Museums
  • Harvard University and Harvard Square
  • Beacon Hill
  • Christian Science Center
  • Durgin-Park
  • Commonwealth Avenue, Back Bay
  • Paul Revere House
  • Old North Church and the Old State House
  • Newbury Street
  • Quincy Market
  • Fenway Park
  • Symphony Hall


I genuinely think we can now add the Harborwalk to this list. In fact, I'm not sure there's another urban space anywhere in America that provides what the Seaport sections of the Harborwalk do on a Friday or Saturday night in the summer, when it becomes a free, beautiful, and energized perambulatory meeting point for the whole city. It's an American version of passeggiata.

FWIW, I'd probably also add Hanover Street/North End to the list, and maybe the Public Garden, though perhaps that's covered by Beacon Hill. In the future I'd hope that Fort Point Channel and a Storrow-less Esplanade could have an argument for inclusion.
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I would also argue that the Rose Kennedy Greenway is developing into a world class location. I have seen visitors absolutely marvel at the long stretch of park snaking through the core of the city, particularly when realizing the alternative option that is underneath.
 
BronsonShore said:
Years ago, the patron saint of this site started a discussion about what in Boston could be called "world class."

His list:
  • MFA
  • Gardner
  • Harvard Art Museums
  • Harvard University and Harvard Square
  • Beacon Hill
  • Christian Science Center
  • Durgin-Park
  • Commonwealth Avenue, Back Bay
  • Paul Revere House
  • Old North Church and the Old State House
  • Newbury Street
  • Quincy Market
  • Fenway Park
  • Symphony Hall


I genuinely think we can now add the Harborwalk to this list. In fact, I'm not sure there's another urban space anywhere in America that provides what the Seaport sections of the Harborwalk do on a Friday or Saturday night in the summer, when it becomes a free, beautiful, and energized perambulatory meeting point for the whole city. It's an American version of passeggiata.

FWIW, I'd probably also add Hanover Street/North End to the list, and maybe the Public Garden, though perhaps that's covered by Beacon Hill. In the future I'd hope that Fort Point Channel and a Storrow-less Esplanade could have an argument for inclusion.
Click to expand...
The proximity of the Harborwalk to the heart of the Seaport itself is what makes it so good. You step out of a restaurant or bar and it's right there. It's not like Baltimore's Inner Harbor (which, admittedly, I love) where the plaza-like design makes it feel somewhat separate from the city. The Harborwalk is beautiful and inviting and yet fully urban.

It's a shame they haven't done something to take the Northern Ave. bridge and fully pedestrianize it, that would be a great connection point over to Rowes Wharf and keep the good vibes flowing all the way into the North End.
 
JumboBuc said:
100%. And the irony is that North Point has (functionally) no FAA height limit and (arguably) better transit access.
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Although the CSX developers haven't taken advantage of this, I'd argue that the strict FAA limit in the Seaport as a contrast is a large part of why the latter is so much more urban than the former. I am by no means anti-tower, but I find that the best urbanism is consistently in places that do not have them, or at least where the towers serve as background, without interfering at the street level.
 
BronsonShore said:
Years ago, the patron saint of this site started a discussion about what in Boston could be called "world class."

His list:
  • MFA
  • Gardner
  • Harvard Art Museums
  • Harvard University and Harvard Square
  • Beacon Hill
  • Christian Science Center
  • Durgin-Park
  • Commonwealth Avenue, Back Bay
  • Paul Revere House
  • Old North Church and the Old State House
  • Newbury Street
  • Quincy Market
  • Fenway Park
  • Symphony Hall


I genuinely think we can now add the Harborwalk to this list. In fact, I'm not sure there's another urban space anywhere in America that provides what the Seaport sections of the Harborwalk do on a Friday or Saturday night in the summer, when it becomes a free, beautiful, and energized perambulatory meeting point for the whole city. It's an American version of passeggiata.

FWIW, I'd probably also add Hanover Street/North End to the list, and maybe the Public Garden, though perhaps that's covered by Beacon Hill. In the future I'd hope that Fort Point Channel and a Storrow-less Esplanade could have an argument for inclusion.
Click to expand...
I would add "Copley Square proximity" to that list. While standing in its middle, then turning around for a 360 it's Trinity Church, 200 Clarendon (with Trinity reflecting on its glass), the new Raffles, Copley Square Hotel, Westin, Boston Public Library, Old South Church (wow), and a block of building assemblage (good for contrast). The contrast in architectural styles and time periods are fascinating. True, the Copley Square redesign isn't anything to note, but it doesn't have to be. Just standing on it to look around is enough (with an ice cream).
 
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