Commuter Rail to New Hampshire?

TheRatmeister said:
Obviously not, but if Nashua is open to hosting a layover yard they could probably get the T to fund part of the extension.
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The T can only fund to the state line and slush some funds to CSX under the guise of "freight improvements" for building the layover yard to T spec on the unused back portions of Nashua freight yard. That's the lion's share of the work, and they'd definitely be willing to pay because of the ops improvements and in-district constituency the extension would serve. Thankfully there's little permitting involved for the layover because it's tucked inside a century-active freight yard. Nashua only has to square 4.5 miles of presumably single-track running track improvements (resurfacing, welded rail...it's already Class 3/60 MPH) and signaling improvements (adding cab signals + ACSES positive train control to the existing recently renewed signal system). There are thankfully no bridges on those 4.5 miles, and only 1 public grade crossing (Crown St., which needs a do-over and some signal mods so trains turning on the adjacent platform can override gates-down) and 1 very minor private grade crossing. A fairly modest-sized Fed grant...again ostensibly under the guise of "freight improvements"...would do the whole job. The bigger struggle the city has is how it's going to pay for the 2 stations. The most up-to-date cost projections from the recent study were sufficiently blowout that they're probably going to struggle with that if the Feds aren't willing to grant them most of the way.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
The bigger struggle the city has is how it's going to pay for the 2 stations. The most up-to-date cost projections from the recent study were sufficiently blowout that they're probably going to struggle with that if the Feds aren't willing to grant them most of the way.
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If there's an issue with station construction funding, the City of Nashua could focus on building the station at Crown Street first, and South Nashua could be built later as an infill station.
 
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themissinglink said:
If there's an issue with station construction funding, the City of Nashua could focus on building the station at Crown Street first, and South Nashua could be built later as an infill station.
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The Oct. 2022 cost estimate for South Nashua was $21.2M, and Crown St. for $21.9M. South Nashua was to be primarily funded by federal funds and NHDOT; Crown St. was to be primarily funded by the city. Both estimates are a bit overinflated because the parking is pre-existing at both sites. South Nashua has about 2-1/2 times the parking capacity of Crown St., and Crown St. has 3 buses. There isn't a ridership projection for each, though, since the truncated 2022-23 study didn't get far enough to benchmark that before it was aborted and the 2014 study only specced one Nashua stop.

I guess it's jump-ball which one should go first. If it's possible to get any fed funding for stations, South Nashua might take priority since that was how it was slotted before.
 
www.nhbr.com

Aldermen remove Commuter Rail Feasibility Study from ‘package deal’ resolution in split decision - NH Business Review

Nashua Community Development Director Matt Sullivan said that, while he would prefer the commuter rail project could wait until the next budget process.
www.nhbr.com www.nhbr.com
Moran again made the motion to remove the commuter rail study from the legislation, expressing that they should focus on more immediate needs in the city.

“I think all these projects are amazing, going to be for the betterment of Nashua, fix things that are falling apart and bring rail eventually to the city. But do we need it right now after hearing it could wait? Or could we repurpose that $225,000 to city welfare? Or could we repurpose that money to the paraprofessionals that are being underpaid in the school district?” Moran said.

Alderman Moran agreed. “My children’s children will probably see the rail. Tonight, there are people freezing on the streets. $225,000 is a lot of money to the point that you could probably house all those folks that are homeless in Nashua for at least three to six months with that amount of money. That is not chump change to people living in poverty and freezing on our streets who have no clue or idea of ‘oh my gosh, I can’t wait until there’s a freaking transit system that I can take into Boston to be homeless down there too,’” he said. “I think it should be repurposed to something that’s actually beneficial to people who are freezing and dying on our streets and overflooding our emergency rooms. But go ahead, study your rail.”
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themissinglink said:
www.nhbr.com

Aldermen remove Commuter Rail Feasibility Study from ‘package deal’ resolution in split decision - NH Business Review

Nashua Community Development Director Matt Sullivan said that, while he would prefer the commuter rail project could wait until the next budget process.
www.nhbr.com www.nhbr.com
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My children’s children will probably see the rail. Tonight, there are people freezing on the streets. $225,000 is a lot of money to the point that you could probably house all those folks that are homeless in Nashua for at least three to six months with that amount of money.
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It'll take generations because we keep reallocating it's funding to other things like this... And laughable to suggest that $225k could house all the homeless for six months. Real lack of understanding of how expensive that sort of thing is...
 
HelloBostonHi said:
It'll take generations because we keep reallocating it's funding to other things like this... And laughable to suggest that $225k could house all the homeless for six months. Real lack of understanding of how expensive that sort of thing is...
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I agree with your statement, but I’m also sympathetic to a city like Nashua not wanting to devote scarce municipal resources to a project that should not fall on the shoulders of a municipality. Expecting Nashua to shoulder the load and Nashua opting not to do so is much more a failure of the state of New Hampshire than the city of Nashua.
 
I have heard this false equivalence over and over, but I have never seen a scientific study that links road building and public transit to increased homelessness. I could be sarcastic, however, and suggest to the Alderman that you could kill two birds with one stone by building a bridge that the homeless could live under.
 
BostonBoy said:
I have heard this false equivalence over and over, but I have never seen a scientific study that links road building and public transit to increased homelessness. I could be sarcastic, however, and suggest to the Alderman that you could kill two birds with one stone by building a bridge that the homeless could live under.
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There used to be (and probably still is) a fairly sizeable homeless encampment behind the back of CSX/Pan Am Nashua freight yard. You would think the Alderman would be all for commuter rail with the layover yard and its 24/7 onsite security cleaning that up.
 
$250,000 in federal funding to study an extension to Nashua:

Goodlander urges focused approach as Nashua revives commuter rail effort​

A long-discussed proposal to extend passenger rail service from Lowell, Mass., into Nashua is gaining new momentum through $250,000 in federal funding and an effort to build a broader coalition on both sides of the state line.
U.S. Rep. Maggie Goodlander joined Nashua officials and regional planners Tuesday for a roundtable discussion about the Nashua Commuter Rail Extension Project. Goodlander secured the funding through the fiscal year 2026 appropriations process.
The money is intended to update ridership forecasts and estimates of the project’s construction, operating and maintenance costs. It may also be used to examine potential economic-development, workforce and housing benefits and identify the steps required to move the project toward design, environmental review and eventual construction. But Goodlander urged city officials to carefully define what information is still needed before committing the money to another study.
[...]
An earlier estimate placed the cost of reaching Nashua at approximately $300 million, including track improvements, signals, stations and potentially additional train equipment. Officials emphasized that the estimate is several years old and must be updated.
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There's apparently been talk about building a layover yard for the Lowell Line in Billerica instead of Nashua:
One potentially significant expense may already be addressed. The MBTA is planning a train layover facility at Iron Horse Park in Billerica, Mass.. That facility would allow trains to be stored outside Boston overnight and could eliminate the need for Nashua to build its own.
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Funding from Massachusetts is potentially being sought to study station sites, land use, and TOD in MA:
Nashua has begun working with the Northern Middlesex Council of Governments, the regional planning agency serving Greater Lowell. That organization is considering seeking Massachusetts funding to study possible station sites, land-use changes, housing development and economic effects south of the state line.
Tyngsborough could benefit directly from a station near Pheasant Lane Mall, while Chelmsford could also have an interest in a future stop.
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themissinglink said:
There's apparently been talk about building a layover yard for the Lowell Line in Billerica instead of Nashua:
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Iron Horse Park is 5 miles and some awkward reverse movements away from Lowell Station. It's better than deadheading to BET at every shift change, but it's far from ideal for the current line which is why they haven't tried it before now. Iron Horse is supposed to be the new Maintenance of Way equipment headquarters replacing cramped Alewife and assorted nooks-and-crannies around BET, so even if it's a short-lived site as a trainset layover they still recoup most of the construction value of doing the site because the MOW presence will be predominant. At 18.5 miles to Crown St., Nashua however...it's a completely untenable distance for the extension. I mean, that's only 7 fewer miles than today's super-wasteful Boston-Lowell deadheads, and requires permission from CSX Freight Main dispatcher Lowell Station-North Chelmsford Jct. to stage each of those extra back-and-forth movements. Not going to be worth the T's trouble at all. They're going to be required to build a layover in the CSX Nashua freight yard any which way if they do the extension.
 
At this point, they should just sock away the various study funding blocks for NH service in a high yield savings account. Wait a couple of years for a pliant administration up there and use the funds to build something.

It would be more useful than yet another study that will say the same thing and get filed in the same circular file.
 
The first post in this thread was made back in 2011. I'm not going to read through 27 pages and figure out how much was spent on studies over the past 15 years, but if a study costs $250k as earmarked right now and spent the same in 2011, then it would be doubled at 5% interest.

I wonder all the past study money was just invested and compounded over the past 15 years, it probably would make a significant percentage of the the cost.
 
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MrDee12345 said:
I feel like we should have a competition to see what happens first: Commuter rail to Nashua or an Orange Line extension.
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I suspect the commuter rail to Nashua will happen many years before any MBTA LRT or HRT extensions. It just seems that commuter rail expansion generally has less NIMBY opposition and is less costly to construct.
 
Charlie_mta said:
I suspect the commuter rail to Nashua will happen many years before any MBTA LRT or HRT extensions. It just seems that commuter rail expansion generally has less NIMBY opposition and is less costly to construct.
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I think the difference between the projects is that almost everyone who lives near the path of the Orange Line WANT that extension. It's just a matter of getting the money and the political will to get it done.

For commuter rail to Nashua, I'm willing to bet the opposition is considerably stronger as NH has proven that they are not train-friendly.
 
Charlie_mta said:
I suspect the commuter rail to Nashua will happen many years before any MBTA LRT or HRT extensions. It just seems that commuter rail expansion generally has less NIMBY opposition and is less costly to construct.
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I bet Blue to Charles happens before Commuter Rail to Nashua. I also bet year-round Commuter Rail service is piloted to Buzzards Bay before either.

I have no idea what other LRT/HRT extensions we'll see. GLX is the only one completed in the past 40(!) years. The last time we had an HRT extension was closer to WWII than to today. It is something that most of us do not remember, and I'd bet most of us weren't even alive for.
 
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