Arborway Restoration

I'm skeptical with your proposal since the Jamaicaway is currently overburdened with traffic and it is only going to get worse in the future since the community will create three new pedestrian crosswalks to get to the pond. I'm sure these crosswalks will have traffic lights which will only make transportation slower for everybody in a car. Lamartine and Amory street may be a good idea but these streets are already overburdened during rush hour because of the folks who live in Matapan and Dorchester that use it as a short-cut to get to their jobs, i.e.: V.A., Angell, Faulkner, a few public schools, Hebrew Rehabilitation Center, etc...Oh yeah, and taking a left-turn is difficult throughout the entire day since the drivers on the other side of the road are crazy and won't let you through. Finally, there's no way in hell the community will let you remove the parking spaces on Centre and South Huntington. I bet you didn't know that people who live in the close vicinity, i.e.: Dedham, Canton, Readville, etc. will park their cars on South Huntington (because there are no meters) and take the 39 to get to their jobs in the Longwood/Fenway/Mission Hill area.
 
I bet you didn't know that people who live in the close vicinity, i.e.: Dedham, Canton, Readville, etc. will park their cars on South Huntington (because there are no meters) and take the 39 to get to their jobs in the Longwood/Fenway/Mission Hill area.

This is a BTD parking enforcement issue. Other districts in the city have proven methods of dealing with "campers."
 
Yeah, and Boston parking enforcement is pretty brutal. The spaces are checked frequently, the fines are high, and there's no convenient online payment tool a la Cambridge.
 
Do they tell you you can do that on the ticket? I remember having to send in a check as recently as 2007.
 
I think Ron's idea is a bit radical, but I will say that of all the options for driving from Forest Hills to downtown, the one that I never pick is the one that follows the 39. But I do take South and Centre St. if I am going to patronize a business in JP. That would be the loss if private vehicles were banned.
 
Alright, alright, I understand that the real issue here is that the MBTA wants nothing to do with street-running rail, and that planners and policy makers in thrall to the bus lobby would prefer to see all public transit replaced with bus service.
Let's pretend for a minute, though, that we're evaluating the Arborway line on its merits. The Arborway opposition has long rallied around the preservation of parking on Centre and South Sts. for the benefit of local businesses. The contention being that parking spaces eliminated to make room for turning trains and stops would cripple commercial traffic.
Seriously? Are we actually talking about more than fifty or so spaces along the whole route? Do opposition groups actually think more potential customers use these spaces than would ride a restored Arborway train?
Has building a two or three level parking garage on the site of the existing city parking lot off of Centre, which could easily offset the loss of on street parking and could be paid for with meter fees ever been considered? A new parking facility couldn't possibly be that expensive... Cheaper than renovating and abandoning the old trolleys at the Arborway yard, or building a never-used turnaround at Forest Hills.
 
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Let's pretend for a minute, though, that we're evaluating the Arborway line on its merits. The Arborway opposition has long rallied around the preservation of parking on Centre and South Sts. for the benefit of local businesses. The contention being that parking spaces eliminated to make room for turning trains and stops would cripple commercial traffic.

Seriously? Are we actually talking about more than fifty or so spaces along the whole route? Do opposition groups actually think more potential customers use these spaces than would ride a restored Arborway train?

Ideology often informs the transit debate in JP more than practicality. Parking spaces are the neighborhood's equivalent of shadows. While the presence of the latter frightens a small, vocal subset of the community in greater Boston, in JP the loss of a single parking space is viewed as something that will destroy business along Centre St. It doesn't really make sense, and is rather a proxy battle along ideological lines.

Losing parking in absence of any kind of trade-off would naturally be a negative to any business, but introducing train sets carrying between 177 and 350* people by your front door every ten minutes would seem to negate the loss of that one space. Especially for those businesses facing the loss of a space or two outside their front door so that a station may be built. It's practically a customer-funnel.

There are some who wish to distance themselves from the idea of JP as a part of an urban area. Keeping the automobile at the top of the transportation heap, with (paradoxically) the bicycle next on the list.

This is reflected in the opposition to anything that might improve transit access. Living in JP, you constantly hear about how the buses impede auto traffic, how the physical presence of real bus / train stops would destroy businesses, how the loss of a single parking space for the sake of improved transit access would destroy businesses, how how buses are dangerous to bicyclists, how trains are dangerous to bicyclists, how sidewalk bump-outs that would make the buses / trains ADA compliant would impede traffic and be dangerous to bicyclists. Sure, Centre is either full of speeding cars / completely gridlocked, but that's nothing compared to the ideological enemy that is mass transit.


* 60' articulated buses are often near-full by the the time they leave Centre. I'm operating under the assumption that a one-seat ride to JP, connection to the Green Line and increased vehicle capacity vs. the #39 bus would result an Induced Demand-related increase in ridership.

60' articulated buses have a capacity of 90-ish people. A single-car Green Line train carries estimated 177 passengers (and thusly, about 354 on a standard consist)
 
There are some who wish to distance themselves from the idea of JP as a part of an urban area. Keeping the automobile at the top of the transportation heap, with (paradoxically) the bicycle next on the list.

This is reflected in the opposition to anything that might improve transit access. Living in JP, you constantly hear about how the buses impede auto traffic

This is really what baffles and infuriates me about the resistance to restoration of full E line service. JP is part of the city. Living along the E line in the pre-gentrification eighties, I certainly never heard complaints that regular train service was destroying business or disturbing people's peace and quiet.

I'm just not convinced that JP residents are actually opposed to restored train service. While young, hip and/or professional types have been filling up JP's empty spaces for some time, the real resurgence of Centre St. business only goes back a few years. Anyone who actually sees JP as a leafy suburban eden in the middle of the city didn't get that idea by spending time there before 2003 or so...
 
There would be plenty of room for trolleys here if you move the car traffic off Centre and South Streets. Put the private cars on Lamartine Street and the Jamaicaway/Arborway instead, and reserve Centre and South Streets for public transit.

If I recall correctly I think there were some complaints from Jamaica Plain businesses as well. The tracks also are either in a paved-over or removed state along Centre and South Streets so that would entail a long process of reconstruction of the rail tracks there.
Some of the residents or businesses didn't want to give up their parking spaces on those streets too.. Plus from a legal standpoint the MBTA isn't allowed to set-down passengers in the middle of the road.
If you jump off the train, and cars tare around the train and passengers get knocked-down, then the MBTA is liable until those passengers reach the curb. One of the only places on the MBTA system where passengers were still being set-down in the middle of street is on the corner of (I think it's) Heath Street and Huntington Avenue. The street just before the VA hospital at the bottom of the hill. I haven't been out there in about 4-5 years, but if they haven't replaced that layout then that is still a bad situation there. That type of layout probably cannot be added to the T system along South and Centre Streets going forward. They would probably only restore service if small stations could be created in the middle of the road (like on Huntington Avenue.)
 
If I recall correctly I think there were some complaints from Jamaica Plain businesses as well. The tracks also are either in a paved-over or removed state along Centre and South Streets so that would entail a long process of reconstruction of the rail tracks there.
Some of the residents or businesses didn't want to give up their parking spaces on those streets too.. Plus from a legal standpoint the MBTA isn't allowed to set-down passengers in the middle of the road.
If you jump off the train, and cars tare around the train and passengers get knocked-down, then the MBTA is liable until those passengers reach the curb. One of the only places on the MBTA system where passengers were still being set-down in the middle of street is on the corner of (I think it's) Heath Street and Huntington Avenue. The street just before the VA hospital at the bottom of the hill. I haven't been out there in about 4-5 years, but if they haven't replaced that layout then that is still a bad situation there. That type of layout probably cannot be added to the T system along South and Centre Streets going forward. They would probably only restore service if small stations could be created in the middle of the road (like on Huntington Avenue.)

"Plus from a legal standpoint the MBTA isn't allowed to set-down passengers in the middle of the road."

Completely false.


Heath has its own private loops. The preceding 3 stations are middle of the street stops, and theres nothing dangerous about them. Has anybody been hit there in the past 10 years?
 
A bicyclist was killed there a week or two ago (Huntington and South Huntington) -- probably by getting a wheel caught in the tracks and then being hit by a bus.
 
Someone at MASSDOT needs to grow a pair and speak with their rather large legal division. Doing business with stupid unreasonable power hungry is actually rather easy. One simply provides a faux option, such that the conflicted party's ego is satiated with having made a decision, where there really wasn't any other decision to be made. Put an EL on the table as a 'serious' option and watch the neighborhood settle for restoration of service as it was.

It's the equivalent of going to a historics meeting with grandfathered ugly as sin white vinyl clad aluminum windows, one fully intends to replace, while asking for something slightly controversial. When the controversial request is denied, "Oh then I guess I won't replace the windows as this time". Suddenly aghast at the prospect of the unwanted entities remaining, things are reconsidered, and approved by the committee.
 
"Plus from a legal standpoint the MBTA isn't allowed to set-down passengers in the middle of the road."

Completely false.

I got the street wrong. I was trying to type this out quick rather than going to look it up. I apologize. The corner in question is Huntington Avenue and South Huntington Avenue...

This corner per Google Maps: http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&ll=42.331878,-71.111995&spn=0.000485,0.000862&t=h&z=20

Not false. Next time you get on your favourate local bus feel free to ask the bus driver if he's allowed to set down passengers in the street or if he can get in trouble for disembarking them in the road. Those current stops on the E line have been that way for years but the MBTA is not likely going to introduce new service in a manner such as that.
Even if a cars are parked at a bus stop the bus drivers are to pull as far into the bus stop as they can towards the curb... If they set down passengers in the road and one or all of those passengers get knocked down the MBTA will take action on that driver following the investigation.

Heath has its own private loops. The preceding 3 stations are middle of the street stops, and theres nothing dangerous about them. Has anybody been hit there in the past 10 years?

You are correct. The preceding stations are in the middle of the street (one of which was what I was actually referring to.) The one esp. at the bottom of the hill. (i.e. the junction of Huntington and South Huntington Streets.)
 
Not false. Next time you get on your favourate local bus feel free to ask the bus driver if he's allowed to set down passengers in the street or if he can get in trouble for disembarking them in the road. Those current stops on the E line have been that way for years but the MBTA is not likely going to introduce new service in a manner such as that.
Even if a cars are parked at a bus stop the bus drivers are to pull as far into the bus stop as they can towards the curb... If they set down passengers in the road and one or all of those passengers get knocked down the MBTA will take action on that driver following the investigation.

What luxury bus line do you ride? Stand at Harvard Ave and Brighton Ave. The 66 and 57 stop their. Neither will ever pull to the curb. During rush hour, you usually have to walk 3 car lengths to reach the bus because theyve opened their door early, which makes sense because it saves an entire light cycle.
 
What luxury bus line do you ride? Stand at Harvard Ave and Brighton Ave. The 66 and 57 stop their. Neither will ever pull to the curb. During rush hour, you usually have to walk 3 car lengths to reach the bus because theyve opened their door early, which makes sense because it saves an entire light cycle.

I regularly observe the #1 bus and Silver Lie do the same thing (it seems to depend on the size of the bus flock.)
 
I also think it depends on the driver. I have heard drivers tell people they need to wait until he gets to the stop to let them out. Other have no issues doing it.

It's the same as some drivers will allow passengers to stand in front of the yellow line when the bus is packed, while others won't.
 
The driver should do whatever is appropriate to stay on schedule. If that means letting people off in the middle of the street 1/2 block before the bus stop, then do that.
 
The LRV's could load/unload right at the sidewalk, if the sidewalk were extended out to the track at station locations. This would require taking some parking spaces for the sidewalk widening.

But of course there would be howls over the lost parking spaces, which is short-sighted given that rail transit would generate more patronage for the businesses in the area.
 
What luxury bus line do you ride? Stand at Harvard Ave and Brighton Ave. The 66 and 57 stop their. Neither will ever pull to the curb. During rush hour, you usually have to walk 3 car lengths to reach the bus because theyve opened their door early, which makes sense because it saves an entire light cycle.

I know just what you mean. I've taken the 66 myself. The fact remains, (as far as I know) T drivers can receive disciplinary action for not attempting to pull-in as far as possible into the stop. If something does happen you can almost count on action being taken on that driver. The Green Line trolleys ofcourse are on rail and thusly cannot pull-over. But drivers of both modes are expected to exercise caution to make sure that the passengers can make it safely to the sidewalk though. Once they're on the sidewalk then they're someone else's issue. However, as long as they are in the street the MBTA can be liable if it was the authority which dispensed them there.

There are a number of reasons for these policies. Persons with disabilities are one. The bodies dealing with disabilities are well versed in the laws and federal statutes regarding access for persons with disabilities, and they inform their clients of these same laws. They know all the right attorneys that will take a case and proceed with immediate action. Many of those bodies aren't afraid to sue a place like the T at the simplest infraction. So as a blanket policy, the drivers are supposed to pull-in to the stop as far as possible.

The drivers can't control the conditions they encounter along the bus routes, but the drivers do know the rules and the possible results that can come about for breaking those rules.

Nonetheless, this is one of the reason why the MBTA has the job lottery... The MBTA will filter through many of those people who have signed up for the job lottery rather quickly. Employees out in the system come and go all the time.
 
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