[ARCHIVED] Harbor Garage Redevelopment | 70 East India Row | Waterfront | Downtown

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Rifleman, let's do a little math.

Don claims he is currently making a profit from garage operations. To achieve this probably means he is paying little interest on the $85 million note. And if so, deferred interest might be part of the balloon payment, which means the amount he has to pay out or re-finance is more than $85 million.

But let's assume he was paying 4 percent interest on his $85 million note, that's $3.2 million a year in interest payments. That's about $8,800 a day, every day of the year. That means he has to get about a 1,000 cars parking there every day each paying about $9.00 to park --just to pay 4 percent interest. And that's a cost before his operating costs are added in: the management fee to Interpark, utilities, maintenance and repair, taxes, labor cost of attendants, etc. And that's not counting how much Prudential is being paid for financing most/all of the other $70 million.

The Boston Common garage has about the same number of spaces as Harbor Garage. Its total revenue in 2010 was $9.6 million, The revenue per space per day was $19.30. The operating expenses (no interest payments, no taxes, no management fee) were $4.1 million.

The ONLY way Don is making a profit currently is from having very little interest expense on the money he secured to finance the purchase.

Didn't the garage under the Intercontinental file for bankruptcy last year?
__________________________

As for crowds, people who pay big bucks for their condos don't like crowds mingling around the building lobby doors, don't like noise assaulting their senses at all hours, etc. They aren't interesting in living on top of Don's street fair. One can buy a condo at Harbor Towers with the same view and no crowds for $500-700 a square foot, so who would pay double or more for the same view with crowds?

People are willing to pay $2,000 a sq ft for Louisburg Square, why do you think?

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

3.) He can't get a commercial space tower financed without a major tenant signed up. Don liked to claim he charged the highest office rents in Boston. Does anyone see that long line of eager tenants snaking along Atlantic Ave clamoring to rent space in the Arch?

4.) He won't get a residential tower financed because people who can afford $1,500 sq ft condos don't want to live atop Don's mini-Boston-sized version of Times Square. Don has pitched the Arch as a destination. Destinations mean crowds. Crowds mean noise, and the hoi-polloi congregating outside my residence lobby.

I think most of your points were good ones Stellar, but the two above I take issue with. Don bragged about charging the highest office rents in Boston because he was bragging that IP was the top building in Boston, which it arguably was for a long time (I'd say the Hancock has surpassed it now). Businesses will clamor for space if the buildings value proposition is right. Same way any new office building works.

You're point about residential could have applied to the Ritz development. Except that was in a dodgier neighborhood and the crowds are bums and teenagers. In front of the aquarium the crowds will mostly be families. And the Ritz was a huge success.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Stellarun.......Maybe your right the guy goes bankrupt.

But when people go into business and understand the risks they usually go in with a game-plan.
Harbor Garage was always zoned for 155ft. The BRA claimed they wanted to knock it down and build something giving him an extra 45ft was a slap in the face.
All I'm saying is I think Harbor Garage is a long-term bet to withstand the ups & downs of the economy. I could be wrong but when investors go into something like this they understand that they are in for long-haul through the city politics.

The way I see it is 155 Million is a bargain for this garage in this location-Long-term for the city of Boston.

Intercontinental garage is not in front of the Aquarium and is not one of the busiest areas in Boston. The 7-eleven at Harbor Garage has been at this location since I have been alive.

I believe once Mayor Menino is gone the next mayor will say do whatever it takes to get rid of the garage to whomever owns the garage.


I will roll with (A) Don got a STEAL.
(you can't value this type of RE location) Best frontage of the Greenway & Waterfront.
What is the asking price of the condos at Harbor Towers these days?

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

AmericanFolkLegend, a condo presently for sale in the Ritz is going for $900 a square foot. Mandarin condos have gone as high as $2,500 a sq ft.

A key design feature of the Arch was/is the first floor building lobbies were open, either framing his passage to the sea, and/or replete with retail boutiques.

If Don were to sell condos in his Arch for $800-900 a square foot, he could probably sell out. But he has never struck me as a person who would be satisfied with offering units at that price. IIRC, in the early days of the Arch, didn't he assert that the condo prices would be the most expensive in Boston?

 

[whighlander]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Rifleman, let's do a little math.

Don claims he is currently making a profit from garage operations. To achieve this probably means he is paying little interest on the $85 million note. And if so, deferred interest might be part of the balloon payment, which means the amount he has to pay out or re-finance is more than $85 million.

But let's assume he was paying 4 percent interest on his $85 million note, that's $3.2 million a year in interest payments. That's about $8,800 a day, every day of the year. That means he has to get about a 1,000 cars parking there every day each paying about $9.00 to park --just to pay 4 percent interest. And that's a cost before his operating costs are added in: the management fee to Interpark, utilities, maintenance and repair, taxes, labor cost of attendants, etc. And that's not counting how much Prudential is being paid for financing most/all of the other $70 million.

The Boston Common garage has about the same number of spaces as Harbor Garage. Its total revenue in 2010 was $9.6 million, The revenue per space per day was $19.30. The operating expenses (no interest payments, no taxes, no management fee) were $4.1 million.

The ONLY way Don is making a profit currently is from having very little interest expense on the money he secured to finance the purchase.

Didn't the garage under the Intercontinental file for bankruptcy last year?
__________________________

As for crowds, people who pay big bucks for their condos don't like crowds mingling around the building lobby doors, don't like noise assaulting their senses at all hours, etc. They aren't interesting in living on top of Don's street fair. One can buy a condo at Harbor Towers with the same view and no crowds for $500-700 a square foot, so who would pay double or more for the same view with crowds?

People are willing to pay $2,000 a sq ft for Louisburg Square, why do you think?

Stel -- Have you been looking at Interest Rates -- the 10 year T Bill are?
answer 1.5% to 1.6% -- half what it was last year

People are getting mortgages on houses for 3.5%
I doubt that there is much difficulty refinancing a big garage in the midst of it all

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Stel -- Have you been looking at Interest Rates -- the 10 year T Bill are?
answer 1.5% to 1.6% -- half what it was last year

People are getting mortgages on houses for 3.5%
I doubt that there is much difficulty refinancing a big garage in the midst of it all

Five year commercial office 4.09%-4.85%, re-financing no more than 75 percent of value. The balloon note probably reflects what they (the REIT in Hartford) think the value was, which would mean he overpaid by about $40-45 million.

The balloon note is a five year note, which would have reflected interest rates in effect in June 2008.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

If the Currency Collaspes Chiofaro will be sitting in a great spot. Hard Assets, Paper is worthless.

Have you ever taken a course in economics? in finance? even in accounting?

 

[statler]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Given the choice between redeveloping the garage or the pool area I think I choose the pool. It is right up there with ToC and City Hall Plaza as the worst purposely-designed blights in the city.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Given the choice between redeveloping the garage or the pool area I think I choose the pool. It is right up there with ToC and City Hall Plaza as the worst purposely-designed blights in the city.

When Harbor Towers got all that space for their recreation, no one ever dreamed that the Central Artery would come down. That space is what now literally sucks life out of the Greenway, because as Alice Toklas said of Oakland, 'There's no there there.'

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Have you ever taken a course in economics? in finance? even in accounting?

The question you should be asking did Bernanke, Geithner or Larry Summers ever take basic Accounting, Economics or even Finance?

So to answer your question--its YES.....That is the reason why I say 155 Million dollar price tag for a parking garage isn’t that bad because looking at the fucking morons running our country into bankruptcy up above, Helicopter Ben would rather destroy our country than do the right thing.

The super rich

Record Breaking Most Expensive Real Estate: 88 Million Dollar NYC Penthouse Sells to 22 Year Old
themoengroup | December 21, 2011

http://blog.themoengroup.com/2011/1...o-22-year-old-the-most-expensive-real-estate/

Do you think she overpaid for this NYC pad or would you rather own a parking garage with excess cash flow constantly coming in?

 

[KentXie]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

I don't think the currency will collapse in the foreseeable future, unless we hit hyperinflation and that won't happen.

 

[AmericanFolkLegend]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Do you think she overpaid for this NYC pad or would you rather own a parking garage with excess cash flow constantly coming in?

But the "excess" cash flow won't be worth anything since we'll be in a period of hyper-inflation and record unemployment thanks to the morons running this country into the ground blah, blah, blah.

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The question you should be asking did Bernanke, Geithner or Larry Summers ever take basic Accounting, Economics or even Finance?

So to answer your question--its YES.....That is the reason why I say 155 Million dollar price tag for a parking garage isn’t that bad because looking at the fucking morons running our country into bankruptcy up above, Helicopter Ben would rather destroy our country than do the right thing.

The super rich


http://blog.themoengroup.com/2011/1...o-22-year-old-the-most-expensive-real-estate/

Do you think she overpaid for this NYC pad or would you rather own a parking garage with excess cash flow constantly coming in?

Were the courses you took in economics, finance, and accounting from an accredited school?
See for example, http://www.neasc.org/

Ykaterina bought that with Daddy's money, and Daddy is sheltering his rubles beyond the Dneiper. So he doesn't much care if its a loss. The Russians are simply diversifying their purchases.

http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com...loods-in-could-new-york-go-the-way-of-london/

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

But the "excess" cash flow won't be worth anything since we'll be in a period of hyper-inflation and record unemployment thanks to the morons running this country into the ground blah, blah, blah.

Record unemployment would lead to deflationary collaspe. Which is still possible 1930's type depression.

My point is the Feds end game is the PRINT at all costs. No matter what happens in the short-term Deflation or inflation........They will destroy the currency because America is deep into debt.

Investors will be looking to pour their useless paper into hard assets at all costs. GOLD, SILVER, Real Estate. 2013-2014 will be interesting times.

Were the courses you took in economics, finance, and accounting from an accredited school?
See for example, http://www.neasc.org/

Ykaterina bought that with Daddy's money, and Daddy is sheltering his rubles beyond the Dneiper. So he doesn't much care if its a loss. The Russians are simply diversifying their purchases.

http://rendezvous.blogs.nytimes.com...loods-in-could-new-york-go-the-way-of-london/

Are you serious with some your ignorant comments. Accredited School. Yeah I went to Bunker Hill Community College. (you have a problem with that?)

As for the Russian girl spending daddy's money. Who cares its still an investment in a condo in NYC at 88 Million dollars. Somebody still was willing to spend 88 Million dollars for a condo in a prime spot in the city.

That is my point their is always value in prime locations in Real Estate.

 

[TheRifleman]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

The $1 million parking space
Only in New York, kids . . .

By ANNIE KARNI

Last Updated: 10:15 AM, May 20, 2012
You’ll need a trunk full of cash to park here.

The city’s first million-dollar parking space is on the market.

The private garage at 66 E. 11th St. costs six times more than the national-average price of a single-family home.

Buying it would be the same as paying a $115 ticket for illegal parking every day — for 24 years.

For moguls or celebrities, however, the rare commodity of a Manhattan parking space inside their building, with a curb cut at the street, is a huge status symbol and selling point.

“It’s for someone who wants complete privacy,” said Prudential Douglas Elliman Vice Chairman Dolly Lenz. “You can drive in and not be seen again. It’s for the type of person who finds that attractive. It could be a celebrity or a business person who is camera shy.”


MY SPACE: The parking spot at this residence on East 11th Street costs six times more than a typical family home.
The hot space is about 12 feet wide, 23 feet long and more than 15 feet high.

The spot could be “duplexed” if the buyer decides to install an elevator lift so he or she can slide both the Maserati and the Lamborghini in at the same time.

The parking spot will have its own deed and sales contract, and be charged maintenance fees, just as a condo would.

The city’s gaudiest garage is expected to hit the market this fall, after construction is complete and the Attorney General’s Office signs off on the building’s condo conversion.

Last year, developer Morad Fareed purchased the eight-story prewar loft building for $120 million and is in the process of converting the former parking garage into six luxury condominiums with mammoth, 15-foot-high ceilings.

The jewel in the building’s crown is the 8,000 square-foot duplex penthouse, with a private 3,000 square-foot terrace, which will be listed for $38.8 million, according to Lenz.

The parking space isn’t the only amenity: the shower water will be pumped full of vitamin C and aloe, and the apartments will have heat reflexology flooring.

The lighting patterns and air quality in the building are designed to provide its residents with a better night’s rest.

“The parking spot will go to the 8,000 square-foot town house or to the penthouse,” Fareed said.

The sky-high price for a slab of concrete is a sign of a resurgent real-estate market, experts said.

“If you have an opportunity to buy a space in your building, you’re going to take advantage of that,” said Robert Knackal, chairman of Massey Knackal. “The reality of New York City is that people are willing to pay more for a parking spot than the average person in the country pays for a home.”

The city’s second most expensive parking spot is a 300-square-foot “en suite” sky garage that’s inside of a $7 million penthouse at 200 11th Ave.

I think Boston will see these prices sooner or later.
Harbor Garage could have that type of potential in Boston in the future

http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/the_million_parking_space_AjkgazGpILpNDaRLPm1iyK#ixzz1xERKaKT0

 

[underground]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

We've reach a true milestone here today: so far off topic we're talking about Gold Buggery.

 

[vanshnookenraggen]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Does it come with someone to personally jack you off in the morning too?

Hold up, shouldn't the shower give out Vitamin E, not C?

 

[stellarfun]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

When you run the Weimar printing presses, you deflate the value of fixed assets, like parking garages. That is a monetary strategy one could employ to reduce the amount of debt owed. It leaves the debt holder in the bag, because one can pay off the debt with cheaper or much cheaper money.

^^^^ Weimar 20 million mark postage stamp.
The amount of debt is typically not indexed to inflation or deflation, so run the printing presses and I could buy Don's mortgage on Harbor Garage for eight postage stamps.

 

[kz1000ps]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

 

[KentXie]

Re: The Boston Arch (Aquarium parking garage)

Record unemployment would lead to deflationary collaspe. Which is still possible 1930's type depression.

My point is the Feds end game is the PRINT at all costs. No matter what happens in the short-term Deflation or inflation........They will destroy the currency because America is deep into debt.

Investors will be looking to pour their useless paper into hard assets at all costs. GOLD, SILVER, Real Estate. 2013-2014 will be interesting times.



Are you serious with some your ignorant comments. Accredited School. Yeah I went to Bunker Hill Community College. (you have a problem with that?)

As for the Russian girl spending daddy's money. Who cares its still an investment in a condo in NYC at 88 Million dollars. Somebody still was willing to spend 88 Million dollars for a condo in a prime spot in the city.

That is my point their is always value in prime locations in Real Estate.

First of all, deflation would not destroy currency. How can it destroy it if the value of the dollar goes up?

Second, the reason why the economy is tanking is because nobody is spending. You want to blame the high unemployment? You can blame it on Europe tanking and dragging the rest of the world down. The drop in demand for US products means big wig firms aren't hiring. Instead the big wigs have decided to keep excess money from bail outs and tax cuts in a safe place for a rainy day. Plus being true capitalists, they would offshore their needs to cheaper labor with the same skill set as Americans, in foreign nations. Domestic demand is not nearly high enough to offset it and with higher unemployment, demand continues to slide.

This is where printing money make sense. If the rise in the value of the dollar induces saving, then the fall in the value of dollar induces spending. Money becomes cheap and more available. Why hold onto something which value is likely to drop in the foreseeable future? This means that it's better to spend now than save and spend later.

It can then be deduced that the option to purchase gold or hard asset is holding the recovery back. If people are spending money on hard asset, things that do not produce, because it is able to retain value, then this means there is less money spent on goods and services, thus less demand, more unemployment, and less money circulation (except for maybe real estate agents).

From this, all this fearmongering about the collapse of the economy and the flight to quality will result in a slower recovery. Printing money can solve the problem, but the people themselves are not cooperating.