BCEC expansion | Seaport

vanshnookenraggen said:
Cuz seriously, how many people here have been traveling, say to Europe, and said F-it, I'm going to McDonalds?
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got to raise my hand on that one. london, shanghai, taichung, boulogne, palma, hangzhou, etc. all turn out to be good spots to grab a burger, wings or a pizza. who knew?

lots of reasons why its sometimes easier to just grab 'n go. homesickness, montezuma's revenge, penury, being dog tired, hate/distrust/tired of the local stuff, 24/7 work cause you're on deadline, per diem not sufficient, etc., etc.

eat to live, fear no food... and anyway, there's no chance every corner of boston will be gemstone quality -- last thing you want to do is have every part of town end up mediocre, no part truly unique. got to pick your battles, right?
 
singbat said:
eat to live, fear no food... and anyway, there's no chance every corner of boston will be gemstone quality -- last thing you want to do is have every part of town end up mediocre, no part truly unique. got to pick your battles, right?
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See, by concentrating common amenities around a business district, we'll increase the local flavor of the rest of the city. And attract more people to see all of it. And have a nice, new business district to go along with it.
 
my vague memory at work:

About 5-10 years ago the Improper Bostonian or Stuff at Night had a small blip in their restaurant section in which they intervied the number one builder of restaurant space in Boston. The blip said all the big chains are coming to Boston and the small local restaurants will be put out of business because visitors want to eat at places they are familiar with. A few years latter they revisited that and said they were wrong. Turns out Boston has a reputation as a restaurant town and visitors want to try the local places.

I found that article to be pretty pointless.
 
I would think most of the restaurant business is actually generated by locals.

The dichotomy is a bit false, anyway. Tourists will always prefer a place that's easy, convenient, fast, and local. Not many first time visitors to Boston would choose the Faneuil Hall McDonald's over Durgin Park or the Union Oyster House. If either of the latter were across the street from the BCEC they would be similarly favored.

If there can be a Cheers at Logan it shouldn't be much trouble to put one down there to save us from that horde.
 
I'd say the restaurant business is blurred when it comes to who supports it more-the locals will tend to support local, un-flashy places where they know the people and the food. The tourists and business people like flashy chains that have the same food no matter where they are. Like Cheers, which is what the tourists and business people consider to be local. Somewhere like, I don't know, the Sail Loft or Black Rose I'd say are safe bets for local establishments that visitors would go to, and I'm not outlawing those to stay out of SBW. I'm just saying that it is a viable option to entice large, flashy chain restaurants and retailers to SBW, because of the allure they create amongst visitors who want something larger than life (which they won't find at Mom 'n' Pops Tavern), yet something where they can know what will be on the menu, how the food will taste, and what the drinks are like. I feel like I'm reiterating the same idea over and over with different words each time I post.
 
vanshnookenraggen said:
Cuz seriously, how many people here have been traveling, say to Europe, and said F-it, I'm going to McDonalds?
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Hey, it happens. I love fully immersing myself in the culture of an area as much as the next guy on this forum, but I'll be the first to admit that the day I got pick-pocketed on the subway in Madrid, I was in such a bad mood that I got a coffee from Dunkin' Donuts and had lunch at the Hard Rock Cafe. I've also ordered chicken nuggets in Amsterdam and Pizza Hut pizza in India. Human nature, even in the most adventurous person craves sameness once in a while. As long as chains don't define an area, it's not a terrible thing.
 
czsz said:
Not many first time visitors to Boston would choose the Faneuil Hall McDonald's over Durgin Park or the Union Oyster House...

...If there can be a Cheers at Logan it shouldn't be much trouble to put one down there to save us from that horde.
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When I moved to St. Louis, the first reaction to Boston people had was:

"Oh, I've been there! We saw that restaurant where they filmed the movie Cheers. And we went to some marketplace that had a ton of restaurants inside, it was kind of like a glorified food court. It had a funny name...something hall, I remember."

So first time visitors definitely do go to Faneuil Hall and Cheers.
 
When I lived in Boston i the 80's every September the subway was loaded with students looking for Cheers and Quincey Market. At the same time I use to eat at Giogio's on Newbury St and the placed was packed with tourist who has asked thier hotel for recommendations.

I've always ate locally when I traveled but I frequently asked for advice first.
 
New College kids I'm sure are more interested in Fenway Park and the Garden these days.. The second question is sure to be where's the best drinking spot?
 
We had been talking about why Boston will attract conventions more than other cities. Someone else, ablarc I believe, said that they'll only come until an Atlanta of Phoenix builds a bigger, newer convention center. I said no, Boston's charm and new development will triumph. Seems I was wrong.

The GreenBuild Expo was held at the Boston Convention Center. Next year, it will be in Phoenix.
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http://news.cnet.com/2300-11392_3-6247947-19.html?tag=mncol
 
Or perhaps this is simply an exposition that moves around the country each year, rather than staying in a fixed location.
 
kennedy said:
We had been talking about why Boston will attract conventions more than other cities. Someone else, ablarc I believe, said that they'll only come until an Atlanta of Phoenix builds a bigger, newer convention center. I said no, Boston's charm and new development will triumph. Seems I was wrong.
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Wasn't me. I agree with the special charm theory.

(But a few titty bars would help.)
 
^co-sign what ablarc said. Conventioneers WANT sex and wild parties, that's more than 50% of the whole deal
 
Suffolk 83, it's called 'Networking'. How else could so many bad business deals which completely defy logic come to pass? Often the real deal was sealed between sheets, with something other than a handshake, and without the benefit of sober judgment. The paperwork thereafter is merely a formality in acquiescence of bed sheet blackmail.
 
Ablarc, that was in jest to the later half of Suffolk 83's comment. Unfortunately, although in jest, it happens to be true to some degree.
 
kennedy said:
We had been talking about why Boston will attract conventions more than other cities. Someone else, ablarc I believe, said that they'll only come until an Atlanta of Phoenix builds a bigger, newer convention center. I said no, Boston's charm and new development will triumph. Seems I was wrong.

http://news.cnet.com/2300-11392_3-6247947-19.html?tag=mncol
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are you a secret herald reporter. Virtually every convention changes city every year. You might be thinking of trade shows. By the way that herald comment is a joke, I would never saying anything so mean.
 
Expansion Restriction
Boston Convention Center Heads Want To Expand, But Need Hotel Rooms Too

By Scott Van Voorhis
Banker & Tradesman Columnist
Today
If you thought Boston?s new convention center was big, just wait until you see the expansion.

The state authority that oversees the Boston Convention & Exhibition Center is starting to weigh a major addition to the $800 million meet-and-greet complex.

But if you think this means just slapping on a few meeting rooms onto the back of the Rafael Vinoly-designed hall, think again.

In the works are plans that could involve not just more meeting rooms, but also potentially a significant push beyond the hall?s 60-acre footprint to add some badly needed hotels.

Of course there is nothing official out yet.

But a draft report by a consulting firm hired to study a potential expansion ? word of which is now filtering out after convention center board members were recently briefed ? offers a few clues on where this is headed.

Not If But When
We are likely talking about some sort of public-private partnership to spur the development of hotels on some of the dusty, and yet to be developed tracts that still ring the sprawling, South Boston complex.

Really, the only question is not if there will be an expansion, but when. And let?s just hope it?s sooner rather than later, when construction prices are falling and the economy needs a boost.

Otherwise we are looking at a repeat of the woes that plagued the development of the center itself just a few years ago. That included a memorable construction freeze to head off a looming, $100 million cost overrun and a series of 11th-hour cuts to reduce the price tag.

?Any time prices are this low it is time to build,? said Dean Stratouly, a Hub tower builder and a long time member of the convention authority board, ?except that prices are this low because no one is building, and they are not building because there is no credit and the state is in terrible financial condition.?

Despite the hedged endorsement, Stratouly, who oversaw the development of the new center a few years ago, has emerged as a bull on the convention authority?s board when it comes to expansion, including the construction of new hotels.

?My individual view is that right now we have one of the finest facilities in the country and ? one of the worst hotel conditions in the country,? Stratouly said.

And without a plan to expand both the hall and the number of hotels around it, Boston?s new convention center ?will lose market presence, and once we have lost market presence, that is very hard to regain.?

?It?s all about hotels, hotels, hotels,? he said.

Of course word of this is likely to get long-time convention business critics foaming at the mouth.

But the new center, after struggling with some real challenges early on during its development, has won over a number of skeptics since it opened its doors back in 2004.

If You Build It ? Where Will They Stay?
The new center has pumped more than $1.7 billion into the local economy over the past five years, while helping to create 7,000 jobs, according to one estimate.

In fact, the new BCEC had so much success it is effectively booked out for several years. The only way to bring in more business is to build a bigger hall.

Yet a bigger hall won?t do much good without more hotel rooms nearby, of which there is already a dire shortage.

The Westin Waterfront Boston serves as the headquarters hotel, and there is a new Marriott a few blocks away as well as the Seaport Hotel. But that is far from sufficient to accommodate the tens of thousands of conventioneers who pour into town with the top shows.

That has forced companies and shows to bus attendees back and forth from the Back Bay, where most of the city?s hotels are clustered.

Sounds OK on paper, but there are big problems with this setup. The hotel rooms are pricier than what conventioneers often want to spring for. And the cost of bussing attendees is a budget breaker as well.

Throw in some nasty Boston traffic ? bus trips back and forth to the convention hall on a bad day can take an hour ? and you wind up with some very unhappy campers.

Nightmare Situation
With the new hall and the city?s hotels maxed out, convention center officials are now having to turn business ? and badly needed spending ? away.

That has resulted in lost business of that would have generated 250,000 additional hotel room bookings, noted James Rooney, chief executive of the Massachusetts Convention Center Authority, in a recent interview with New England Cable News.

While vague on the details, Rooney hinted at the need for a ?comprehensive plan? for future expansion, one that would include hotels in the planning.

?You can?t have one without the other,? Rooney said of the symbiotic relationship between the convention and hotel business.

Behind the scenes, convention center officials are starting to look at expansion possibilities.

The easy part is to fill out the remaining 20 acres next door to the giant center with new meeting rooms, more exhibit space and an auditorium ? all likely candidates.

But convention officials are also looking at hotel ideas as well.

Developers? Dream
One possibility, raised in that recent draft consultants? report, is the construction of new hotels around the South Boston center on some of the undeveloped tracts that now surround the center.

Back during the boom, a number of ambitious developers had big plans for condo complexes and retail shops on these sites.

John Drew, who built out the World Trade Center complex, put together plans for Waterside Place mall and residential complex just across the street from the convention center.

Meanwhile, real estate investor and developer Peter Palandjian had big plans for a new condo complex on another site next to the convention hall.

Given the down economy, both sites are now seen as potential candidates on which to build new hotels to service Boston?s bursting-at-the-seams convention center.

Other potential hotel development sites include the air-rights over nearby train tracks and a parking lot owned by the U.S. Postal Service in the nearby Fort Point district.

As important as figuring out potential development sites, though, is coming up with a model to finance their construction.

Simply relying on the private sector won?t cut it. New projects of all kinds are languishing on drawing boards across the country, with banks terrified of touching anything with even a faint scent of risk.

That means to get hotels built will require help from the public sector, though how much and by what means remains to be debated.

How other cities with big convention centers have tackled the hotel construction piece is also explored in the draft report:

Chicago financed hotel construction for its convention hall through a public-private partnership, where costs and profits were divided up.

San Antonio and San Diego had their local, industry and state supported convention and visitors? bureaus build hotels, and then lease them to operators.

?In this market the only way you can get a hotel done is through a public process,? Stratoutly said.
 
You should see the comments...

Hub hotel biz takes dive
Revenue in April down 28%

By Donna Goodison
Friday, June 5, 2009

Boston and Cambridge hotels suffered a dramatic drop in business in April, with declines in demand from leisure and corporate travelers - and particularly group bookings - forcing them to heavily discount rates.

Revenue per available room, the key indicator of a hotel?s health because it factors both demand and room rates, sank a whopping 28.5 percent to $136 from $191 in April 2008, according to a new report by Pinnacle Advisory Group.

The average hotel occupancy rate, meanwhile, fell to 71.8 percent from 83.7 percent, and the average room rate dropped 16.7 percent to $190. Hotel industry executives say it likely will take room rates at least three years to recover to pre-recession prices, but it?s expected that the worst is behind the industry this year.

?We?re not going to see (revenue-per-available room) growth, but we?re not going to see any declines worse than what we saw in April,? said Matt Arrants, managing director of Pinnacle, a Boston hospitality consulting firm.

The booking pace for group reservations for blocks of 10 or more rooms has been a good indicator of market performance, Arrants said. April demand had been tracking about 30 percent below year-ago levels for quite a while, which was reflected in the numbers for hotels that accommodate that segment of the market. Hotels in Boston?s Back Bay saw a 32 percent drop in revenue per available room, while hotels with 450-plus rooms experienced a 29 percent drop.

Hotels have been fighting to maintain their market shares by lowering rates. ?It?s all about volume right now and offering a good price value to the consumer,? said Paul Sacco, CEO of the Massachusetts Lodging Association.

The Lenox Hotel, a 214-room boutique property in the Back Bay, recorded an approximately 30 percent drop in guest room rates and revenue per available room in April, according to general manager Daniel Donahue.

?That number is our bread and butter,? Donahue said. ?It?s how you can survive in January and the doldrums of winter, and we don?t have that this year. We don?t have the profit to reinvest back into the property.?

Going forward, that?s going to make it harder for hotels to make capital expenditures on new furniture and renovations, Donahue said, because it?s money that they can?t put away right now.

?We?re just not making up those losses quick enough,? he said. ?Right now, you?re just making operating costs.?
dgoodison@bostonherald.com
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http://www.bostonherald.com/business/general/view.bg?articleid=1176900&format=comments#CommentsArea
 
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