Biking in Boston

BPD supposedly gave BTD commitments that lanes would be enforced. I'm guessing practically this means that the cops gave people warnings on the first three days and haven't done a damn thing since.
 
CSTH said:
Let me write tickets and take a 10pcnt commission...we'd be rolling in dough
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I don't know if your post was in earnest or not but given the capabilities of modern mobile technology allowing some degree of citizen enforcement seems a lot more practical than shifting or bringing on a significant amount of police manpower. The number of lane miles needing to be watched is only going to keep increasing.
 
KCasiglio said:
I don't know if your post was in earnest or not but given the capabilities of modern mobile technology allowing some degree of citizen enforcement seems a lot more practical than shifting or bringing on a significant amount of police manpower. The number of lane miles needing to be watched is only going to keep increasing.
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Part of me supports this idea wholeheartedly. The other part feels like this is a prime way to get citizens in a bunch of knock-down, drag-out fights with one-another.
 
George_Apley said:
Part of me supports this idea wholeheartedly. The other part feels like this is a prime way to get citizens in a bunch of knock-down, drag-out fights with one-another.
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Yeah, I think ideally there is no citizen-citizen contact in this but inevitably someone is going to see someone snapping a picture of their car and react. I think as long as the citizen-enforcer isn't the final say on the matter it shouldn't be too big of an issue. Given that these interactions are taking place on our main thoroughfares I think the risk of violence is minimal. I'd limit it to bike/bus lane violations for that exact reason. We don't need neighbors on a sleepy Brighton side street taking things into their own hands because someone blocked a bit of someone's driveway.
 
KCasiglio said:
Yeah, I think ideally there is no citizen-citizen contact in this but inevitably someone is going to see someone snapping a picture of their car and react. I think as long as the citizen-enforcer isn't the final say on the matter it shouldn't be too big of an issue. Given that these interactions are taking place on our main thoroughfares I think the risk of violence is minimal. I'd limit it to bike/bus lane violations for that exact reason. We don't need neighbors on a sleepy Brighton side street taking things into their own hands because someone blocked a bit of someone's driveway.
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There is a mechanism for reporting bad or unsafe driving: Registry of Motor Vehicles Complaint of Improper Operation. Citizens can refer incidents to the RMV and they'll follow up and may even schedule an administrative hearing. I don't know anyone who has done this, but it seems like a good idea...
 
KCasiglio said:
Given that these interactions are taking place on our main thoroughfares I think the risk of violence is minimal. I'd limit it to bike/bus lane violations for that exact reason.
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Consider me in the highly, highly skeptical camp of that. There's plenty of road rage incidents in highly public places as it is, and those are just because someone's fragile ego was wounded, without any money being involved.

That's going to get someone intentionally run over with a car.
 
KCasiglio said:
Yeah, I think ideally there is no citizen-citizen contact in this but inevitably someone is going to see someone snapping a picture of their car and react. I think as long as the citizen-enforcer isn't the final say on the matter it shouldn't be too big of an issue. Given that these interactions are taking place on our main thoroughfares I think the risk of violence is minimal. I'd limit it to bike/bus lane violations for that exact reason. We don't need neighbors on a sleepy Brighton side street taking things into their own hands because someone blocked a bit of someone's driveway.
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I haven't heard anything else out of DC since the concept was proposed earlier this year. https://www.citylab.com/transportat...zen-safety-enforcement-vision-zero-dc/590122/
 
George_Apley said:
BPD supposedly gave BTD commitments that lanes would be enforced. I'm guessing practically this means that the cops gave people warnings on the first three days and haven't done a damn thing since.
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There is minimal enforcement. My daily commute has me riding on two different bus/bike lanes or if I take the 'T, riding on one. I always see lots of cars parked in these lanes or using them to pass other cars, approach turn too early, etc. They are still better than nothing, but without enforcement, they are not nearly as effective as they could be. As for the idea somebody else mentioned, for citizen enforcement, I don't think that would work, but robot enforcement would. It should work much like the automated tolls on the Pike, Tobin, and harbor tunnels. Drive or park in the bus lane, expect a fine in the mail. It wouldn't take very long for such a system to modify behavior.
 
HenryAlan said:
There is minimal enforcement. My daily commute has me riding on two different bus/bike lanes or if I take the 'T, riding on one. I always see lots of cars parked in these lanes or using them to pass other cars, approach turn too early, etc. They are still better than nothing, but without enforcement, they are not nearly as effective as they could be. As for the idea somebody else mentioned, for citizen enforcement, I don't think that would work, but robot enforcement would. It should work much like the automated tolls on the Pike, Tobin, and harbor tunnels. Drive or park in the bus lane, expect a fine in the mail. It wouldn't take very long for such a system to modify behavior.
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There's a lot of types of camera enforcement I'm less than thrilled about, but enforcement cameras for bus lanes have worked well elsewhere, and present far fewer of the ethical issues/questionable incentives that have plagued red light camera programs.

It does take a change to state law to make that legal though, I think.
 
HenryAlan said:
There is minimal enforcement. My daily commute has me riding on two different bus/bike lanes or if I take the 'T, riding on one. I always see lots of cars parked in these lanes or using them to pass other cars, approach turn too early, etc. They are still better than nothing, but without enforcement, they are not nearly as effective as they could be. As for the idea somebody else mentioned, for citizen enforcement, I don't think that would work, but robot enforcement would. It should work much like the automated tolls on the Pike, Tobin, and harbor tunnels. Drive or park in the bus lane, expect a fine in the mail. It wouldn't take very long for such a system to modify behavior.
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There’s no enforcement in Boston on anything, whatsoever. It’s pathetic. Everybody knows it, the papers have written about it, people have ranted about it here, nothing will change unless they break the spine of the cop union and get someone who isn’t super cozy with police in the mayors office.
 
FK4 said:
There’s no enforcement in Boston on anything, whatsoever. It’s pathetic. Everybody knows it, the papers have written about it, people have ranted about it here, nothing will change unless they break the spine of the cop union and get someone who isn’t super cozy with police in the mayors office.
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FK -- especially the bicyclists who don't seem to respect the Laws of Physics in their riding
The real problem of course is that there are accidental examples of enforcement of the Laws of Physics - -and the penalties can be quite severe up to and including instant immortality

I was a near witness [and minor participant] to such a couple of weeks ago. The Town of Lexington placed a bicycle lane inboard of a line of parking meters along a stretch of Mass Ave. I was preparing to enter my car and was balancing a cup of coffee on my car roof with a small paper plate en-pastried when a bicyclist [outfitted at least] to participate in one of the sprint segments of the Tour de France whizzed past me. I estimated his speed at in excess of 20 mph*1 [under the local speed limit of 25 mph] without even looking up. Had I corralled my coffee and the pastries more efficiently [it was quite windy] and opened my car door a bit earlier -- he would have pancaked into the door and if he was lucky only the wreckage of his bike would have stopped instantly -- he would have continued in an airborne fashion for a few more meters. At the point of the near impact [he passed my left shoulder by less than the length of my arm while I was standing directly adjacent to my car door.

So my question is who is going to enforce the laws against crazy bicycling short of Mr. Newton

*1 after I got into my car and drove off -- I caught-up with the bicyclist a couple of blocks down Mass Ave -- he was still proceeding as before and I measured his speed on my speedometer
 
whighlander said:
FK -- especially the bicyclists who don't seem to respect the Laws of Physics in their riding
The real problem of course is that there are accidental examples of enforcement of the Laws of Physics - -and the penalties can be quite severe up to and including instant immortality

I was a near witness [and minor participant] to such a couple of weeks ago. The Town of Lexington placed a bicycle lane inboard of a line of parking meters along a stretch of Mass Ave. I was preparing to enter my car and was balancing a cup of coffee on my car roof with a small paper plate en-pastried when a bicyclist [outfitted at least] to participate in one of the sprint segments of the Tour de France whizzed past me. I estimated his speed at in excess of 20 mph*1 [under the local speed limit of 25 mph] without even looking up. Had I corralled my coffee and the pastries more efficiently [it was quite windy] and opened my car door a bit earlier -- he would have pancaked into the door and if he was lucky only the wreckage of his bike would have stopped instantly -- he would have continued in an airborne fashion for a few more meters. At the point of the near impact [he passed my left shoulder by less than the length of my arm while I was standing directly adjacent to my car door.

So my question is who is going to enforce the laws against crazy bicycling short of Mr. Newton

*1 after I got into my car and drove off -- I caught-up with the bicyclist a couple of blocks down Mass Ave -- he was still proceeding as before and I measured his speed on my speedometer
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This has been the exception that proves the rule, brought to you by this thing that happened to me--ME!--personally.

Pay no mind to things like measurable statistics informing actionable decisions on where the enforcement pie should be divided. This happened to me, and I am destroyer of worlds, so there. . . 🦖



(Some people actually believe ^this^, see. 🤡)
 
whighlander said:
FK -- especially the bicyclists who don't seem to respect the Laws of Physics in their riding
The real problem of course is that there are accidental examples of enforcement of the Laws of Physics - -and the penalties can be quite severe up to and including instant immortality

I was a near witness [and minor participant] to such a couple of weeks ago. The Town of Lexington placed a bicycle lane inboard of a line of parking meters along a stretch of Mass Ave. I was preparing to enter my car and was balancing a cup of coffee on my car roof with a small paper plate en-pastried when a bicyclist [outfitted at least] to participate in one of the sprint segments of the Tour de France whizzed past me. I estimated his speed at in excess of 20 mph*1 [under the local speed limit of 25 mph] without even looking up. Had I corralled my coffee and the pastries more efficiently [it was quite windy] and opened my car door a bit earlier -- he would have pancaked into the door and if he was lucky only the wreckage of his bike would have stopped instantly -- he would have continued in an airborne fashion for a few more meters. At the point of the near impact [he passed my left shoulder by less than the length of my arm while I was standing directly adjacent to my car door.

So my question is who is going to enforce the laws against crazy bicycling short of Mr. Newton

*1 after I got into my car and drove off -- I caught-up with the bicyclist a couple of blocks down Mass Ave -- he was still proceeding as before and I measured his speed on my speedometer
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So, to sum up your story, you avoided dooring a cyclist because you paid attention. But because you were startled by it, you’re upset that the cyclist was traveling swiftly yet legally in a (albeit poorly designed) bicycle lane.
 
whighlander said:
FK -- especially the bicyclists who don't seem to respect the Laws of Physics in their riding
The real problem of course is that there are accidental examples of enforcement of the Laws of Physics - -and the penalties can be quite severe up to and including instant immortality

I was a near witness [and minor participant] to such a couple of weeks ago. The Town of Lexington placed a bicycle lane inboard of a line of parking meters along a stretch of Mass Ave. I was preparing to enter my car and was balancing a cup of coffee on my car roof with a small paper plate en-pastried when a bicyclist [outfitted at least] to participate in one of the sprint segments of the Tour de France whizzed past me. I estimated his speed at in excess of 20 mph*1 [under the local speed limit of 25 mph] without even looking up. Had I corralled my coffee and the pastries more efficiently [it was quite windy] and opened my car door a bit earlier -- he would have pancaked into the door and if he was lucky only the wreckage of his bike would have stopped instantly -- he would have continued in an airborne fashion for a few more meters. At the point of the near impact [he passed my left shoulder by less than the length of my arm while I was standing directly adjacent to my car door.

So my question is who is going to enforce the laws against crazy bicycling short of Mr. Newton

*1 after I got into my car and drove off -- I caught-up with the bicyclist a couple of blocks down Mass Ave -- he was still proceeding as before and I measured his speed on my speedometer
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It sounds like you would have been at fault had the near miss incidence you describe occurred. George is giving you too much credit by saying you were paying attention.

Yes the lane is poorly designed. You're still responsible for not opening your door into oncoming traffic.
 
whighlander said:
FK -- especially the bicyclists who don't seem to respect the Laws of Physics in their riding
The real problem of course is that there are accidental examples of enforcement of the Laws of Physics - -and the penalties can be quite severe up to and including instant immortality

I was a near witness [and minor participant] to such a couple of weeks ago. The Town of Lexington placed a bicycle lane inboard of a line of parking meters along a stretch of Mass Ave. I was preparing to enter my car and was balancing a cup of coffee on my car roof with a small paper plate en-pastried when a bicyclist [outfitted at least] to participate in one of the sprint segments of the Tour de France whizzed past me. I estimated his speed at in excess of 20 mph*1 [under the local speed limit of 25 mph] without even looking up. Had I corralled my coffee and the pastries more efficiently [it was quite windy] and opened my car door a bit earlier -- he would have pancaked into the door and if he was lucky only the wreckage of his bike would have stopped instantly -- he would have continued in an airborne fashion for a few more meters. At the point of the near impact [he passed my left shoulder by less than the length of my arm while I was standing directly adjacent to my car door.

So my question is who is going to enforce the laws against crazy bicycling short of Mr. Newton

*1 after I got into my car and drove off -- I caught-up with the bicyclist a couple of blocks down Mass Ave -- he was still proceeding as before and I measured his speed on my speedometer
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Suppose it were not a bike, but another car in your example. Do you ever look for moving vehicles approaching before attempting to get in or out of your car? Do you actually think a person driving a car, regardless of how they might be dressed, will likely stop and wait for you to get your shit together before proceeding past you? You may be right about laws of physics -- it may well be impossible for somebody traveling within the legal speed limit to suddenly stop when you step in front of them. We should probably have lower speed limits on such roads. But above all, don't step in front of an approaching vehicle -- look both ways, be more careful.
 
HenryAlan said:
Suppose it were not a bike, but another car in your example. Do you ever look for moving vehicles approaching before attempting to get in or out of your car? Do you actually think a person driving a car, regardless of how they might be dressed, will likely stop and wait for you to get your shit together before proceeding past you? You may be right about laws of physics -- it may well be impossible for somebody traveling within the legal speed limit to suddenly stop when you step in front of them. We should probably have lower speed limits on such roads. But above all, don't step in front of an approaching vehicle -- look both ways, be more careful.
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Agreed on all points, and this entire discussion just highlights the need for more protected cycletracks, parking protected bike lanes, and off-street bike infra!
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
This has been the exception that proves the rule, brought to you by this thing that happened to me--ME!--personally.
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haha, this is great. But the best part about the original post is that it didnt happen TO him, he did it to himself and then complains about what the other person did. He admits walking/standing in a travel lane and then blames the somebody else for actually traveling (less than the speed limit) in said lane.
other people have already said it, but if this was a 8' parking lane next to an 11' travel lane (both standard widths), there wouldnt be any expectation that somebody should be able to go around the side of their car in the travel lane when cars were coming.
 
whighlander said:
FK -- especially the bicyclists who don't seem to respect the Laws of Physics in their riding
The real problem of course is that there are accidental examples of enforcement of the Laws of Physics - -and the penalties can be quite severe up to and including instant immortality

I was a near witness [and minor participant] to such a couple of weeks ago. The Town of Lexington placed a bicycle lane inboard of a line of parking meters along a stretch of Mass Ave. I was preparing to enter my car and was balancing a cup of coffee on my car roof with a small paper plate en-pastried when a bicyclist [outfitted at least] to participate in one of the sprint segments of the Tour de France whizzed past me. I estimated his speed at in excess of 20 mph*1 [under the local speed limit of 25 mph] without even looking up. Had I corralled my coffee and the pastries more efficiently [it was quite windy] and opened my car door a bit earlier -- he would have pancaked into the door and if he was lucky only the wreckage of his bike would have stopped instantly -- he would have continued in an airborne fashion for a few more meters. At the point of the near impact [he passed my left shoulder by less than the length of my arm while I was standing directly adjacent to my car door.

So my question is who is going to enforce the laws against crazy bicycling short of Mr. Newton

*1 after I got into my car and drove off -- I caught-up with the bicyclist a couple of blocks down Mass Ave -- he was still proceeding as before and I measured his speed on my speedometer
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I’m not as aggrieved at this post as others. It’s a bit ridiculous, but let’s not all pigpile on because we’re pro bike... I can’t stand the super aggressive cyclists; they exist and while they’re a minor problem, they are an issue. I can relate to the frustration of having someone very aggressively whiz by you, too close, without slowing down. It’s like the drivers that speed up so they don’t have to stop for you in the crosswalk. Anyway, any actual biking updates lately?
 
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