Biking in Boston

Perhaps we could size vehicles to fit our communities (and streets) rather than size communities (and streets) to fit vehicles.

Safer streets reduce the severity of accidents, which reduces the number of calls for emergency services.
 
EricS said:
Perhaps we could size vehicles to fit our communities (and streets) rather than size communities (and streets) to fit vehicles.

Safer streets reduce the severity of accidents, which reduces the number of calls for emergency services.
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Also a couple secrets the fire departments don't want to tell you about urban firefighting (because they love their big toys):

1) you really do not need those huge rigs for most fires; they are only really needed for large buildings; industrial fires; tank farm fires, etc.

2) building fire rates continue to fall in the United States; frequency of real fire responses are at an all time low.

3) for tall buildings, the firefighting equipment is of little value above the 10th floor. The firefighters are important for evacuation; but they really can do little to fight the fire up in a high rise. They are basically reliant on the building fire suppression systems to work (or not).

Basically what I am suggesting is that being able to move big hulking fire rigs around an urban center is not really as important as the fire departments would make it seem.
 
JeffDowntown said:
Also a couple secrets the fire departments don't want to tell you about urban firefighting (because they love their big toys):

1) you really do not need those huge rigs for most fires; they are only really needed for large buildings; industrial fires; tank farm fires, etc.

2) building fire rates continue to fall in the United States; frequency of real fire responses are at an all time low.

3) for tall buildings, the firefighting equipment is of little value above the 10th floor. The firefighters are important for evacuation; but they really can do little to fight the fire up in a high rise. They are basically reliant on the building fire suppression systems to work (or not).

Basically what I am suggesting is that being able to move big hulking fire rigs around an urban center is not really as important as the fire departments would make it seem.
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As someone with a fire science degree, and heavily involved in the fire service with an NGO, allow me to clear some of your misconceptions.

1. Yes, you do need those big rigs. Boston Fire just got a new heavy rescue and its big. Why? Because its a rolling toolbox with equipment for everything from fires to technical rescue to collapse rescue to the jaws of life. You NEED that equipment, especially in a city like Boston. Additionally, engines can park further away, but you need the bigger pumps to overcome friction loss in the hose.

2. Yes, building fires continue to be on the decline, however call volumes are not dropping. Fire Departments are becoming more and more of a All-Hazard response type of agency.

3. In a mid or high rise fire of ANY type, you are reliant on the building's fire systems to a degree. Engine companies hook up to the fire department connection to augment the available water supply of the building's fire pump, sprinklers, and hook up to the standpipe system to provide a water source on the fire floor. As for "firefighters and their equipment become of little value above the 10th floor," you can't be more wrong. Forcing entry on the 20th floor is no different than on the 1st. Stretching a hoseline on the 25th is no different than on the 1st - only instead of hooking to the engine's pump directly, you hook up to the standpipe. Engine companies in high rise areas have additional pump stages increasing to 2 & 3 stage pumps to increase the pressure and allow for the correct pressure on the fire floor.

And if you think that fire departments in the northeast WANT bigger rigs, no they don't. Most departments are constrained by the size of the apparatus bay of 100 year old firehouses - so they maximize what they can for space on new apparatus so they can fit in the building and carry what they can. New diesel engines are also larger due to EPA regulations designed for 18 wheelers. There are some departments that don't care about the size of fire apparatus, but by and large, they're dealing with rural areas where they have to carry the water they'll use.

As for the "firefighting standards organization" others were inquiring about, what you're looking for is the NFPA - the National Fire Protection Association. Please realize that the standards are not only voted on by the fire service, but also the insurance industry and other member industries of the NFPA.

In short, firefighters are just as important today as they were 50 years ago.
 
WormtownNative said:
As someone with a fire science degree, and heavily involved in the fire service with an NGO, allow me to clear some of your misconceptions.

1. Yes, you do need those big rigs. Boston Fire just got a new heavy rescue and its big. Why? Because its a rolling toolbox with equipment for everything from fires to technical rescue to collapse rescue to the jaws of life. You NEED that equipment, especially in a city like Boston. Additionally, engines can park further away, but you need the bigger pumps to overcome friction loss in the hose.

2. Yes, building fires continue to be on the decline, however call volumes are not dropping. Fire Departments are becoming more and more of a All-Hazard response type of agency.

3. In a mid or high rise fire of ANY type, you are reliant on the building's fire systems to a degree. Engine companies hook up to the fire department connection to augment the available water supply of the building's fire pump, sprinklers, and hook up to the standpipe system to provide a water source on the fire floor. As for "firefighters and their equipment become of little value above the 10th floor," you can't be more wrong. Forcing entry on the 20th floor is no different than on the 1st. Stretching a hoseline on the 25th is no different than on the 1st - only instead of hooking to the engine's pump directly, you hook up to the standpipe. Engine companies in high rise areas have additional pump stages increasing to 2 & 3 stage pumps to increase the pressure and allow for the correct pressure on the fire floor.

And if you think that fire departments in the northeast WANT bigger rigs, no they don't. Most departments are constrained by the size of the apparatus bay of 100 year old firehouses - so they maximize what they can for space on new apparatus so they can fit in the building and carry what they can. New diesel engines are also larger due to EPA regulations designed for 18 wheelers. There are some departments that don't care about the size of fire apparatus, but by and large, they're dealing with rural areas where they have to carry the water they'll use.

As for the "firefighting standards organization" others were inquiring about, what you're looking for is the NFPA - the National Fire Protection Association. Please realize that the standards are not only voted on by the fire service, but also the insurance industry and other member industries of the NFPA.

In short, firefighters are just as important today as they were 50 years ago.
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Excellent post. I love hearing the real knowledge from those who know... Thanks.
 
What bothers me is that cities and towns consolidate and close fire stations and claim that response times won't be effected enough for it to matter, yet something to make streets safer doesn't fly. We can increase response times for the bottom line, but not to help stop pedestrians and cyclists from being injured or killed.
 
WormtownNative said:
As someone with a fire science degree, and heavily involved in the fire service with an NGO, allow me to clear some of your misconceptions.

1. Yes, you do need those big rigs. Boston Fire just got a new heavy rescue and its big. Why? Because its a rolling toolbox with equipment for everything from fires to technical rescue to collapse rescue to the jaws of life. You NEED that equipment, especially in a city like Boston. Additionally, engines can park further away, but you need the bigger pumps to overcome friction loss in the hose.

2. Yes, building fires continue to be on the decline, however call volumes are not dropping. Fire Departments are becoming more and more of a All-Hazard response type of agency.

3. In a mid or high rise fire of ANY type, you are reliant on the building's fire systems to a degree. Engine companies hook up to the fire department connection to augment the available water supply of the building's fire pump, sprinklers, and hook up to the standpipe system to provide a water source on the fire floor. As for "firefighters and their equipment become of little value above the 10th floor," you can't be more wrong. Forcing entry on the 20th floor is no different than on the 1st. Stretching a hoseline on the 25th is no different than on the 1st - only instead of hooking to the engine's pump directly, you hook up to the standpipe. Engine companies in high rise areas have additional pump stages increasing to 2 & 3 stage pumps to increase the pressure and allow for the correct pressure on the fire floor.

And if you think that fire departments in the northeast WANT bigger rigs, no they don't. Most departments are constrained by the size of the apparatus bay of 100 year old firehouses - so they maximize what they can for space on new apparatus so they can fit in the building and carry what they can. New diesel engines are also larger due to EPA regulations designed for 18 wheelers. There are some departments that don't care about the size of fire apparatus, but by and large, they're dealing with rural areas where they have to carry the water they'll use.

As for the "firefighting standards organization" others were inquiring about, what you're looking for is the NFPA - the National Fire Protection Association. Please realize that the standards are not only voted on by the fire service, but also the insurance industry and other member industries of the NFPA.

In short, firefighters are just as important today as they were 50 years ago.
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My sources are the largest manufacturer of fire fighting equipment and fire engines in the United States.

There is a lot of fire fighting gear that sits idle for very large periods of time. Much of it purchased after 9/11 with homeland security funding.

Yes, fire fighting capability is important, but it is also bloated by fear and self-interested expenditures. Note that member industries of the NFPA are largely the recipients of the fire equipment spending.
 
JeffDowntown said:
My sources are the largest manufacturer of fire fighting equipment and fire engines in the United States.

There is a lot of fire fighting gear that sits idle for very large periods of time. Much of it purchased after 9/11 with homeland security funding.

Yes, fire fighting capability is important, but it is also bloated by fear and self-interested expenditures. Note that member industries of the NFPA are largely the recipients of the fire equipment spending.
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Dude, I really don't want to get into a pissing match - but that's all you're really trying to do here while muttering that firefighters suck.

You have to realize this - firefighters are not paid for what they have to do - they're paid for what they may have to do. And they spend the rest of their time making sure that they are prepared and ready for when they do have to respond.

Manufacturers are one facet of the NFPA's membership - there is also the fire service proper, and like I said before, the insurance industry plays a large role as well.
 
sm89 said:
What bothers me is that cities and towns consolidate and close fire stations and claim that response times won't be effected enough for it to matter, yet something to make streets safer doesn't fly. We can increase response times for the bottom line, but not to help stop pedestrians and cyclists from being injured or killed.
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Truth be told, the NFPA standards require a career response of 5 minutes or less (1 minute to get out the door, and 4 to drive where they have to go). So they see it as one of their key routes to get somewhere is getting squished to almost nothing.

There isn't much of a buy-in from the fire service as to why these improvements will help them. They don't understand adding a lane induces more congestion - streets engineering isn't something they deal with on a regular basis. So to them, it's an uneducated view that has blinders on solely for public safety - and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but it shouldn't be the only thing.
 
WormtownNative said:
Dude, I really don't want to get into a pissing match - but that's all you're really trying to do here while muttering that firefighters suck.

You have to realize this - firefighters are not paid for what they have to do - they're paid for what they may have to do. And they spend the rest of their time making sure that they are prepared and ready for when they do have to respond.

Manufacturers are one facet of the NFPA's membership - there is also the fire service proper, and like I said before, the insurance industry plays a large role as well.
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Actually I am only saying that the way equipment gets deployed sucks. Not that firefighters suck.

And that we probably should not be designing cities around a very flawed approach to heavy equipment deployment.
 
The Town of Brookline Emerald Necklace Route 9 Crossing project has been awarded and will be under construction this spring with completion expected by end of summer.
 
Randomgear said:
The Town of Brookline Emerald Necklace Route 9 Crossing project has been awarded and will be under construction this spring with completion expected by end of summer.
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This is a great project! It will hopefully re-direct cyclists off of the dangerous adjacent routes: Riverway, Jamaicaway, South Huntington.

This project doesn't just fix the Route 9 crossing, but also the major gap in path and signage all the way up to Netherlands Road.

As a cyclist in JP, I understand how much of a major choke point this can be. If you are biking north along the Emerald Necklace (headed to Fenway area), Google Maps actually directs you to bike on the Jamaicaway! I always ignore this, and instead opt for South Huntington. South Huntington is no piece of cake, especially after Heath Street, with Green Line tracks, the 39 bus, and lots of door-ing possibilities to contend with. I won't dart or bike across six lanes of highway-speed traffic with no signage or marking, though (Route 9 crossing before this project).
 
bigeman312 said:
This is a great project! It will hopefully re-direct cyclists off of the dangerous adjacent routes: Riverway, Jamaicaway, South Huntington.

This project doesn't just fix the Route 9 crossing, but also the major gap in path and signage all the way up to Netherlands Road.

As a cyclist in JP, I understand how much of a major choke point this can be. If you are biking north along the Emerald Necklace (headed to Fenway area), Google Maps actually directs you to bike on the Jamaicaway! I always ignore this, and instead opt for South Huntington. South Huntington is no piece of cake, especially after Heath Street, with Green Line tracks, the 39 bus, and lots of door-ing possibilities to contend with. I won't dart or bike across six lanes of highway-speed traffic with no signage or marking, though (Route 9 crossing before this project).
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very long overdue... I would make one remark, that South Huntington is pretty safe, but for the final segment of former Heath St... that part can get a lil dicey.
 
FK4 said:
very long overdue... I would make one remark, that South Huntington is pretty safe, but for the final segment of former Heath St... that part can get a lil dicey.
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True. I should have stuck with criticizing safety on the Heath-Riverway stretch of South Huntington. The rest of the stretch is quite pleasant, with the exception of dealing with the 39 bus. Thank you for pointing that out
 
Scipio said:
Sweet, is it still the design posted here? (giant pdf alert!)
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Great find, that appears to be it!

I had expected the project to extend to Parkway Rd, but it appears that the portion from River Rd to Parkway was VE'd out of the project (or maybe never in it to begin with...).

Either way, this still leaves a possible connection on the Brookline side via a multiuse sidewalk (ala Seaver St, Boston) or a Boston side bridle path extension crossing Brookline Ave to get to Netherlands Rd.

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Yeah, I remember seeing planning documents that addressed the issue of getting across Brookline Street and onto Netherlands Road.

I also seem to remember a design (or maybe just planning concepts) of a cycletrack directly on Route 9 that would connect the Emerald Necklace with Brookline Village. It looks like the design pasted in above is only adding painted and partially buffered bike lanes to Route 9. I remember my very first bike ride after getting my bike shipped out here was trying to get from Mission Hill to the Coolidge Corner Trader Joe's. Not knowing the area I ended up continuing straight on Route 9 instead of turning onto Washington and made it as far as Chestnut Hill Avenue before I realized something was wrong.
 
Scipop,
Two separate projects, the Gateway East Project extending from Pond Ave to the Brooklein Bank Building (aka, the new palace of pot) and the MBTA bridge that will include cycle tracks is currently on hold while Brookline figures how to cough up enough money to pay for the redesigned street (it was at 25% design in 2012 and put on hold while it waited for TIP funding. The TIP funding is currently for 2017. The cycle track has been vetted by both Toole Design and VHB (the Town's engineer), and is supported by the Brookline Transportation Board.

The Gateway East project originally extended to the Riverway Overpass, but the Emerald Necklace Crossing project in 2013 (maybe) changed that.

Also, the proposed Hotel (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=1837&highlight=brookline+hotel&page=14) at the gas station at the corner of Route 9 and Brookline Ave will likely fund/design/build the small portion of the cycle track in front of their hotel. The Gateway East cycle track plan didn't include a cycle track there because it was still a gas station.
 
Randomgear said:
Scipop,
Two separate projects, the Gateway East Project extending from Pond Ave to the Brooklein Bank Building (aka, the new palace of pot) and the MBTA bridge that will include cycle tracks is currently on hold while Brookline figures how to cough up enough money to pay for the redesigned street (it was at 25% design in 2012 and put on hold while it waited for TIP funding. The TIP funding is currently for 2017. The cycle track has been vetted by both Toole Design and VHB (the Town's engineer), and is supported by the Brookline Transportation Board.

The Gateway East project originally extended to the Riverway Overpass, but the Emerald Necklace Crossing project in 2013 (maybe) changed that.

Also, the proposed Hotel (http://www.archboston.org/community/showthread.php?t=1837&highlight=brookline+hotel&page=14) at the gas station at the corner of Route 9 and Brookline Ave will likely fund/design/build the small portion of the cycle track in front of their hotel. The Gateway East cycle track plan didn't include a cycle track there because it was still a gas station.
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The following Powerpoint (from July 2015) shows the Gateway East project. I haven't found anything more up to date. They received bids for it last year but decided to rebid it after receiving less than stellar numbers. http://www.brooklinema.gov/DocumentCenter/View/8056

And yes, the area around the gas station will be revisited since it is being redeveloped.

Overall, some very exciting changes coming to this area in the next couple of years!
 
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