Biking in Boston

[HenryAlan]

Not to distract from the curb space conversation, but What do folks think about the fact that we're apparently getting a second docked bike share provider, but red, privately owned/operated, and all e-bike?

$12 for a full day rental is a pretty great price for e-bike share. Blue Bikes charges non-member $15 an hour for an e-bike. Just from perusing the Metro Mobility website, though, it appears that the model is entirely based on privately established fleets/docking stations.

The esplanade paths are too narrow for the amount of people walking/walking their dogs/running/biking/roller blading on them.

Yes, much of the time they are only appropriate for the most leisurely of riding. That said, they are also used by a lot of commuters, which is sometimes in conflict with other users.

 

[BOS2BON]

$12 for a full day rental is a pretty great price for e-bike share. Blue Bikes charges non-member $15 an hour for an e-bike. Just from perusing the Metro Mobility website, though, it appears that the model is entirely based on privately established fleets/docking stations.


Yes, much of the time they are only appropriate for the most leisurely of riding. That said, they are also used by a lot of commuters, which is sometimes in conflict with other users.

Exactly. I'm a little disappointed that the Memorial Drive DCR project is still going to leave the path as a 10' SUP. Even if it gets widened, it would have been nice to have separate paths. It's a shame that some of the other improvements, like the bike underpass, have kind of stalled out.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/memorial-drive-phase-3-meeting-presentation-2022-6-30/download

Ped/Bike Underpasses – The Charles

thecharles.org

 

[bigeman312]

… It doesnt make you anti-bike to call for some sensible rules on aggressive or dangerous riding, especially in places with many pedestrians, and, especially, children …

Thank you for saying that. I’ve been painted as anti-bike for this exact sentiment many times over the years on this board (ironic as everyone in my life knows me as a “hardcore cyclist and advocate”), but thankfully people are waking up to reality.

 

[FK4]

Exactly. I'm a little disappointed that the Memorial Drive DCR project is still going to leave the path as a 10' SUP. Even if it gets widened, it would have been nice to have separate paths. It's a shame that some of the other improvements, like the bike underpass, have kind of stalled out.

https://www.mass.gov/doc/memorial-drive-phase-3-meeting-presentation-2022-6-30/download

Ped/Bike Underpasses – The Charles

thecharles.org

For Mem Drive, which I don’t go on much these days but used to, I’d just use the sidewalk on the non river side. Especially after Brookline St, there’s nobody on it and it’s quite wide. I like that it is so wide but they could consider narrowing the sidewalk slightly there and giving the space to the other side… but that would require a full rebuild of Mem itself.

 

[Koopzilla24]

With driving culture being so ingrained in Americans, most if which probably car commuted before bike commuting, that road behavior has carried on into their cycling. In particular the not being courteous around pedestrians or slower riders part. Ultimately humans will always have those that behave in anti-social or dangerous ways. It's safer for people to behave that way on a bike rather than behind the wheel of an automobile, but just like how should be doing more to prevent dangerous drivers from harming others, we should be building bike infrastructure that prevents injury from dangerous cycling. This comes in the form of separation from crowded walking space or wider paths when multi-use where bikes could be traveling at higher speeds.

The overarching problem is that in the public infrastructure hierarchy bikes and pedestrians are typically stuck competing for the same limited space leftover from cars leaving municipalities often trying to jam the two together creating conflict. Since bike "infrastructure" can boil down to a painted line and a plastic post while safer crossings and wider sidewalks involve total roadway reconfiguration, the bikes get the cheap and easy "improvements" while pedestrians are now saddled with looking out for speeding cars AND bikes around the non-daylit street they're trying to cross.

 

[bigeman312]

With driving culture being so ingrained in Americans, most if which probably car commuted before bike commuting, that road behavior has carried on into their cycling. In particular the not being courteous around pedestrians or slower riders part. Ultimately humans will always have those that behave in anti-social or dangerous ways. It's safer for people to behave that way on a bike rather than behind the wheel of an automobile, but just like how should be doing more to prevent dangerous drivers from harming others, we should be building bike infrastructure that prevents injury from dangerous cycling. This comes in the form of separation from crowded walking space or wider paths when multi-use where bikes could be traveling at higher speeds.

The overarching problem is that in the public infrastructure hierarchy bikes and pedestrians are typically stuck competing for the same limited space leftover from cars leaving municipalities often trying to jam the two together creating conflict. Since bike "infrastructure" can boil down to a painted line and a plastic post while safer crossings and wider sidewalks involve total roadway reconfiguration, the bikes get the cheap and easy "improvements" while pedestrians are now saddled with looking out for speeding cars AND bikes around the non-daylit street they're trying to cross.

Nothing you are saying is false, but it is entirely a non-sequitor.

The best bike infrastructure in the world could exist, but as long as there are bad actors, enforcement is necessary.

Just because this truth is more pressing for automobiles than electric/gas bikes, doesn’t mean we should pretend enforcement isn’t necessary for bikers riding vehicles at high (>20 mph) speeds on city streets and trails. I’m willing to bet some of the people riding motorcycles on multi-use trails don’t even know they are doing anything wrong, with how non-existent education/enforcement has become.

 

[Charlie_mta]

The overarching problem is that in the public infrastructure hierarchy bikes and pedestrians are typically stuck competing for the same limited space leftover from cars leaving municipalities often trying to jam the two together creating conflict.

Lots of ways to solve the space constraints, ranging from eliminating on-street vehicular parking all the way up to and including construction of elevated bikeways (being done in China and Europe). How to finance? Congestion e-tolling of motorized vehicles on expressways.

 

[as02143]

With driving culture being so ingrained in Americans, most if which probably car commuted before bike commuting, that road behavior has carried on into their cycling. In particular the not being courteous around pedestrians or slower riders part.

Having been in other countries with varying degrees of bicycle infra - i don't think it's actually "driving culture" unique to Americans. The more capitalist that a place seems to be and the more active someone is within it, the more wild behaviour I've seen.

As an example, in Amsterdam, don't expect any Dutchie to stop for you in the zebra crossing - even though you have the right of way as a pedestrian - they'll ding their bells, yell at you if you even bat your eye and try to cross like you're legally entitled to do. Less yelling in Utrecht or Groningen, but, still very aggressive cycling with respect to pedestrians. Copenhagen is also fairly bad all around with this - the crosswalks where a pedestrian have the right of way have a lot of pedestrians waiting or the cyclists to pass before crossing. Forget London - you'd just cross midblock away from a crosswalk anyway.

 

[Charlie_mta]

Having been in other countries with varying degrees of bicycle infra - i don't think it's actually "driving culture" unique to Americans. The more capitalist that a place seems to be and the more active someone is within it, the more wild behaviour I've seen.

As an example, in Amsterdam, don't expect any Dutchie to stop for you in the zebra crossing - even though you have the right of way as a pedestrian - they'll ding their bells, yell at you if you even bat your eye and try to cross like you're legally entitled to do. Less yelling in Utrecht or Groningen, but, still very aggressive cycling with respect to pedestrians. Copenhagen is also fairly bad all around with this - the crosswalks where a pedestrian have the right of way have a lot of pedestrians waiting or the cyclists to pass before crossing. Forget London - you'd just cross midblock away from a crosswalk anyway.

I'd still take that any day over the carmageddon all too typical in large American metro areas.

 

[TheRatmeister]

Less yelling in Utrecht or Groningen, but, still very aggressive cycling with respect to pedestrians

I don't think I've ever seen someone yell at a pedestrian, but you're right that I also rarely see cyclists stop at zebra crossings. Cars (almost) always stop though, for what it's worth.

 

[Koopzilla24]

Nothing you are saying is false, but it is entirely a non-sequitor.

The best bike infrastructure in the world could exist, but as long as there are bad actors, enforcement is necessary.

Yes I should have explicitly included enforcement in there, in my head it was part of that "infrastructure that prevents dangerous cycling." Though even with enforcement you can't have everything covered at every time. There will always be the rule-breakers, thats why there should be physical infrastructure to try and prevent injury for the scenario in which there is not enforcement present and someone acts dangerously.

Having been in other countries with varying degrees of bicycle infra - i don't think it's actually "driving culture" unique to Americans. The more capitalist that a place seems to be and the more active someone is within it, the more wild behaviour I've seen.

As an example, in Amsterdam, don't expect any Dutchie to stop for you in the zebra crossing - even though you have the right of way as a pedestrian - they'll ding their bells, yell at you if you even bat your eye and try to cross like you're legally entitled to do. Less yelling in Utrecht or Groningen, but, still very aggressive cycling with respect to pedestrians. Copenhagen is also fairly bad all around with this - the crosswalks where a pedestrian have the right of way have a lot of pedestrians waiting or the cyclists to pass before crossing. Forget London - you'd just cross midblock away from a crosswalk anyway.

This is true. Ive seen many a video of European cycling around pedestrians and witnessed it in person in Glasgow and London. Here in the US comes across to me as a "I'm a vehicle so I have priority" mentality. Europe felt more "I'm moving quick and don't want to stop so don't get in my way" and not realizing they're a sort of vehicle and should give way. This is just a personal observation but aligns with @TheRatmeister 's observation that cars are better at stopping at crosswalks there.

Lots of ways to solve the space constraints, ranging from eliminating on-street vehicular parking all the way up to and including construction of elevated bikeways (being done in China and Europe). How to finance? Congestion e-tolling of motorized vehicles on expressways.

There are many ways to solve the space constraint problem its just that American cities are extremely adverse to ones that take away existing car space, and drivers, which make up the majority of people here, would never stand for a toll that would fund cycleways even if they were aware how little bike infrastructure costs.

 

[HenryAlan]

[D]rivers, which make up the majority of people here, would never stand for a toll that would fund cycleways even if they were aware how little bike infrastructure costs.

As it is, many drivers are convinced that even painted bike lanes are expensive and that the cost is entirely born by drivers. People who think that would definitely react badly to the expense of something like a bike viaduct network.

 

[millerm277]

Some gig workers commute from areas like Fall River or RI because the demand (thus pay) is better. Congestion pricing might mitigate some of that, but Secretary Tibets-Nutt got scolded for even hinting at that.

Poorer people who've been priced out to and now have to commute long distances by car from the exurbs or furthest satellite cities to be able to work their in-person job in the city that is directly providing services to the urban-dwelling residents of Boston, is, if true.....making a pretty strong argument against the Secretary's border tolls idea, not for it.

Esplanade riding like 30 mph buzzed someone and it turned into an altercation. He also says people are going way too fast on e-bikes now in SF. I think there tends to be such advocacy amongst cyclists, in general, for bikes as transportation that the people who ignore basic rules of etiquette and safety get a free pass all too often. It doesnt make you anti-bike to call for some sensible rules on aggressive or dangerous riding, especially in places with many pedestrians, and, especially, children.

Imposing a speed limit on some shared-use paths or sections of doesn't seem like a particularly unreasonable idea. I recognize actually getting enforcement/compliance with that poses it's own problem, but that's a first step, and would at least provide guidance to the extent that there is honest confusion about the appropriate usage of/behavior on the path.

I think the Esplanade/PDW path's many variations in character, level of use, and typical makeup of those uses makes it more likely for those issues to develop, especially with how sharply it transitions from a path mostly used by people...."going somewhere", to mostly people just out to semi-aimlessly wander the scenery or hang out a little as you come into Back Bay.

------

As it is, many drivers are convinced that even painted bike lanes are expensive and that the cost is entirely born by drivers. People who think that would definitely react badly to the expense of something like a bike viaduct network.

I don't think bike viaducts are very likely to happen here, but.....I do think you'd have much less opposition from drivers to them than to things that are taking away travel lanes/parking/etc, even if they are vastly more expensive.

 

[ritchiew]

I gotta say, some of this conversation really doesn't square with my experience walking and biking in the Boston area. I see bikers as overwhelmingly mindful and courteous, and I'm not sure what common problems other people are seeing on the streets.

Absolutely, I've seen aggressive bikers going too fast or too close to pedestrians. I have no problem calling those people out as jackasses. But since some of you are bringing it up, I realize I haven't actually seen that in a while. It seems like there's been a culture shift over a couple of decades, maybe from sport biking to more casual and commuting biking. But that's just a guess. Now, when the esplanade is crowded, I see bikers go slow or just walk their bikes. If someone is slow in the bike lane, faster bikers will slow down and wait to pass safely. I regularly walk and bike through a slightly messy intersection where it's hard to see all traffic. Bikes go slow and are ready to brake for pedestrians. A couple times a bike has gotten close as I'm walking, but everyone is watching out for each other, and we've had quick chats of roughly "Sorry--No, you're good---after you." This is my regular experience with bikers.

E-bikes I think usually are technically limited to 20mph, which is faster than I normally ride, so I notice them passing me, never with any issue. I also can't remember any time that's been an issue for me as a pedestrian. I see motorcycles and mopeds in the bike lane, and that does seem to be getting worse. They're a lot heavier, faster, and more dangerous, so I wouldn't mind better enforcement to keep them out of bike lanes. Honestly though, our bike lanes are so under capacity, I haven't really seen any problems yet. But it'd be better to fix that now.

Because of this thread, last night I specifically walked around some popular bike routes in Cambridge during rush hour. Some streets have good bike infrastructure, some have bad, some have none. I am reporting back absolutely zero issues from bikers. No speed demons, no close calls, no yelling at pedestrians, no mopeds, no motorcycles. Bikers passed each other safely and stopped for pedestrians. I didn't even hear any menacing bike bells. What a wonderful world it must be when bike bells sound aggressive, because what I did hear was lots of cars blasting their 100 decibel air horns at pedestrians, bikers, and other drivers. I saw cars speed through intersections even as people were clearly trying to get through crosswalks. I saw cars running red lights, even when they couldn't fit through the intersection, so they'd just block crosswalks or a bike turn lane. I saw someone stop his car in the middle of traffic, turn on his hazards, and leave. And multiple times I heard tires screeching, because a lot of people seemed to be flooring it any second they could.

This is just my experience, and maybe y'all encounter a lot more aggressive and dangerous bikers than I do. But it seems like nearly a non-issue, especially compared to all the other culturally ingrained, anti-social behavior on the streets.

 

[JeffDowntown]

I gotta say, some of this conversation really doesn't square with my experience walking and biking in the Boston area. I see bikers as overwhelmingly mindful and courteous, and I'm not sure what common problems other people are seeing on the streets.

Absolutely, I've seen aggressive bikers going too fast or too close to pedestrians. I have no problem calling those people out as jackasses. But since some of you are bringing it up, I realize I haven't actually seen that in a while. It seems like there's been a culture shift over a couple of decades, maybe from sport biking to more casual and commuting biking. But that's just a guess. Now, when the esplanade is crowded, I see bikers go slow or just walk their bikes. If someone is slow in the bike lane, faster bikers will slow down and wait to pass safely. I regularly walk and bike through a slightly messy intersection where it's hard to see all traffic. Bikes go slow and are ready to brake for pedestrians. A couple times a bike has gotten close as I'm walking, but everyone is watching out for each other, and we've had quick chats of roughly "Sorry--No, you're good---after you." This is my regular experience with bikers.

E-bikes I think usually are technically limited to 20mph, which is faster than I normally ride, so I notice them passing me, never with any issue. I also can't remember any time that's been an issue for me as a pedestrian. I see motorcycles and mopeds in the bike lane, and that does seem to be getting worse. They're a lot heavier, faster, and more dangerous, so I wouldn't mind better enforcement to keep them out of bike lanes. Honestly though, our bike lanes are so under capacity, I haven't really seen any problems yet. But it'd be better to fix that now.

Because of this thread, last night I specifically walked around some popular bike routes in Cambridge during rush hour. Some streets have good bike infrastructure, some have bad, some have none. I am reporting back absolutely zero issues from bikers. No speed demons, no close calls, no yelling at pedestrians, no mopeds, no motorcycles. Bikers passed each other safely and stopped for pedestrians. I didn't even hear any menacing bike bells. What a wonderful world it must be when bike bells sound aggressive, because what I did hear was lots of cars blasting their 100 decibel air horns at pedestrians, bikers, and other drivers. I saw cars speed through intersections even as people were clearly trying to get through crosswalks. I saw cars running red lights, even when they couldn't fit through the intersection, so they'd just block crosswalks or a bike turn lane. I saw someone stop his car in the middle of traffic, turn on his hazards, and leave. And multiple times I heard tires screeching, because a lot of people seemed to be flooring it any second they could.

This is just my experience, and maybe y'all encounter a lot more aggressive and dangerous bikers than I do. But it seems like nearly a non-issue, especially compared to all the other culturally ingrained, anti-social behavior on the streets.

I still see a lot of aggressive or bad behavior among cyclists in Boston. A few from just yesterday:

• Cyclist riding aggressively through pedestrians inside the State Orange Line Station (yes, in the station!).
• 2 cyclists riding the wrong way in the bike lanes on Columbus Avenue. (I was almost hit because I foolishly looked for cyclists coming from the correct direction.)
• 4 Blue Bikers (I don't really consider the "turista" types cyclists) riding across sidewalk areas along Charles Street South, aggressively yelling at pedestrians to make way.

All over the course of about 1 hour, late afternoon yesterday.

 

[Koopzilla24]

Imposing a speed limit on some shared-use paths or sections of doesn't seem like a particularly unreasonable idea. I recognize actually getting enforcement/compliance with that poses it's own problem, but that's a first step, and would at least provide guidance to the extent that there is honest confusion about the appropriate usage of/behavior on the path.

I think this could be potentially really simple to enforce in the Boston area at least. There are a solid amount of existing bicycle cops, and deploying them to ride around the shared use paths for patrol to simply tell anyone going too fast to slow down could go a long way. For police officers that are less inclined to do all that physical activity, a fleet of police ebikes would be a sensible thing that wouldn't break the bank or meaningfully increase the police budget. The number of shared use paths are pretty limited and they're not the longest in our small city so this probably wouldn't require too many officers to be effective.

This is just my experience, and maybe y'all encounter a lot more aggressive and dangerous bikers than I do. But it seems like nearly a non-issue, especially compared to all the other culturally ingrained, anti-social behavior on the streets.

I bike commute every day and like to really mix up the routes so I see all over and I'm in agreement with you that bikers in the area are for the most part incredibly courteous, but 2-3 times a week I witness dangerous behavior from bikers in the vicinity of pedestrians. By that i mean 2-3 individual people. Just this morning i was cutting through the Fens from Jersey Street to get over to Ruggles and watched a guy on a bike literally shoulder check a pedestrian out of the way on the narrow path rather than go around in the dirt or wait a sec for space to pass. A common one is a bike flying through pedestrian scramble crossings full of people weaving and dodging people. Imo its not nearly as pressing an issue as people are making it out to be, but still something to think about addressing.

 

[KCasiglio]

I think there is a significant novelty factor here. Bicyclists presenting a significant hazard to pedestrians/other cyclists is a notable event while people driving hazardously is unfortunately commonplace. I drive aprox. 15 minutes a day driving my daughter to day care and then back home. I see at least one person running a red light every day.

 

[grand_junction]

There's also absolutely a different sample size situation neighborhood to neighborhood (and city-to-city). Areas that have worse bicycle infrastructure will disincentivize a lot of people with a low risk tolerance, and the remaining people to choose to bike are going to likely be people with more aggressive riding behavior and a higher risk tolerance.

 

[KCasiglio]

Areas that have worse bicycle infrastructure will disincentivize a lot of people with a low risk tolerance, and the remaining people to choose to bike are going to likely be people with more aggressive riding behavior and a higher risk tolerance.

This is 100% backed by the data, that cyclists broadly are more likely to be young males, a demographic highly associated with willingness to take risk and aggressive behavior.

 

[HenryAlan]

This is just my experience, and maybe y'all encounter a lot more aggressive and dangerous bikers than I do. But it seems like nearly a non-issue, especially compared to all the other culturally ingrained, anti-social behavior on the streets.

This is largely my experience, too. To a certain extent, this conversation reminds me of the "I saw a bike run a red light!" discourse that pops up so often on social media. I realize the point being made is different, and explicitly not being done in an anti-bike fashion here in this thread. But it nevertheless seems to focus on the unusual or outlier behaviors. Yes, let's clean it up, but really, it doesn't happen much.