Boston 2024

So far as I know Atlanta also didn't shut down MARTA just because its east-west line ran directly underneath the field hockey venue.

Morris_Brown_College_Stadium_(1996).JPEG
 
1996 was a different era in security measures. Atlanta is not a valid comparison point for what access restrictions Boston is likely to face during opening/closing ceremonies.
 
Well is there any way to guess / hypothesize on what would be closed off? The 2004 Democratic Convention forced the closing of the Orange Line (but not the Green Line?) but the highways stayed open everywhere, no? Did commuter rail service still run out of North Station?

I don't have any idea but it seems to be possible closings would include the Zakim Bridge, Green Line and Orange Line at North Station, the Ted Williams Tunnel (except to security and Olympics personnel), the Southeast Expressway from Everett Circle to the Tip O'Neill tunnel (and, potentially, the entire tunnel), South Station, Dorchester Ave from the USPS to Andrew Square and beyond, Mass Ave Connector from the Southeast Expressway to Melnea Cass Boulevard, the Mass Turnpike inbound beyond Prudential Center exit. Road closures to everyone but medical personnel, security, and IOC officials around all major hospitals (MGH, BCH, BI, Brigham's, Tufts, Childrens) and lane restrictions on Storrow Drive, Commonwealh Ave, Boylston Ave, Surface Roads along the Rose Kennedy Greenway, Stuart Street, Seaport Boulevard, Causeway Street, Southampton Street, Columbia Road, D Street, Summer Street, Congress Street, and Tremont Street.

And there has to be room on the Boston Common for these (which will end up being the real reason they can't have beach volleyball there):

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These will also be on Government Center, the Rose Kennedy Greenway, the Lawn on D, and in front of the State House and the perimeter of the Olympics Stadium.
 
They'll probably just round us all up into the secret underground FEMA pens in the tunnels under Walmart.
 
F-Line to Dudley said:
1996 was a different era in security measures. Atlanta is not a valid comparison point for what access restrictions Boston is likely to face during opening/closing ceremonies.
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If I recall correctly, Atlanta got bombed... I would expect that at least the closing ceremonies had some security concerns.
 
At the time of Atlanta, the acronym VBIED was not part of the vocabulary, nor had VBIEDs become a featured part of the terrorist/jihadist arsenal. The US military now targets them. (VBIED is a Vehicle Borne Improvised Explosive Device.)

From the strike summary for May 28
Near Fallujah, three airstrikes struck two ISIL tactical units, destroying two ISIL heavy machine guns, two ISIL armored vehicles and an ISIL VBIED.
.....
Near Ramadi, one airstrike destroyed an ISIL VBIED.
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The restrictions in DC listed below are still in force, coming up on 14 years.

http://app.dc.gov/closures/details.asp?date=20111009&page=1

If the Secret Service had its way, there'd be even more closures.
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I didn't posit that I-95 would need to be closed; alternatively you could construct a blast wall along the expressway. Not great for aesthetics, but sufficient.
 
JohnAKeith said:
The 2004 Democratic Convention forced the closing of the Orange Line (but not the Green Line?) but the highways stayed open everywhere, no? Did commuter rail service still run out of North Station?
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Actually - closed all NS CR and also closed 93SB when the Big Dawgs (Kerry, Clinton, etc.) were in the house....
 
tklalmighty said:
So far as I know Atlanta also didn't shut down MARTA just because its east-west line ran directly underneath the field hockey venue.
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I think "buried" would be the critical distinction there. Twenty or thirty feet of dirt and concrete are a pretty good security barrier.
 
CSTH said:
Actually - closed all NS CR and also closed 93SB when the Big Dawgs (Kerry, Clinton, etc.) were in the house....
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Yes, and quite a few heads of state or other VIPs would be attending the opening and closing ceremonies... Seems like pretty much a certainty that I93 would be shutdown for at least parts of the day for the opening and closing ceremonies. Maybe much longer.

Security barriers or blast barriers alone would not cover the ability of a vehicle or vehicles from stopping and hurling bombs just a few hundred feet into the open air stadium from the elevated highway.

93 would not be the only street closing for the games, nor taken alone is it a reason not to locate the stadium at Widett. To me there are plenty of other reasons not to locate the stadium at Widett Circle. Extra public cost, terrible aesthetics, lack of a compelling plan for a stadium legacy/lack of a compelling midtown vision for after the games round out the top 3 negatives for Widett.
 
tangent said:
I think "buried" would be the critical distinction there. Twenty or thirty feet of dirt and concrete are a pretty good security barrier.
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From the image I posted earlier I'd be surprised if it's even 20 feet. Sure doesn't look like it.
 
Globe is reporting that Boston 2024 will announce a venue change for sailing to New Bedford/Buzzards Bay. While this is some of the most awesome sailing water around and an excellent place for it, here comes the avalanche of venue moves to try to buy good will from the rest of the state. So much for the walking olympics. Oh, and let's justify South Coast Rail.
 
Semass said:
Globe is reporting that Boston 2024 will announce a venue change for sailing to New Bedford/Buzzards Bay. While this is some of the most awesome sailing water around and an excellent place for it, here comes the avalanche of venue moves to try to buy good will from the rest of the state. So much for the walking olympics. Oh, and let's justify South Coast Rail.
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In this case, it's a better location. It's also worth remembering that Boston 2024 does much better in terms of community support outside of Boston. They've had a great reception in Lowell, for example.

As long as the key stuff stays put, Sailing, Whitewater, BMX, etc. can all get farmed out. No biggie.
 
Semass said:
Globe is reporting that Boston 2024 will announce a venue change for sailing to New Bedford/Buzzards Bay. While this is some of the most awesome sailing water around and an excellent place for it, here comes the avalanche of venue moves to try to buy good will from the rest of the state. So much for the walking olympics. Oh, and let's justify South Coast Rail.
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The sailing was going to be a hard sell where they had originally proposed it. Security wise a challenge with all the boat traffic there and navigation disruption to the entrance to the harbor wise during construction and during the games. You don't want to effectively narrow the entrance of a significant port and working harbor for many many months regardless of the photo op.

Personally I would have suggested just moving sailing to Long Island where they are already planning the pistol events (assuming the bridge is rebuilt) And therefore creating a new sailing facility that could have afterwards been used in conjunction with Camp Harbor View... Or Marblehead is already the de facto sailing capital of Massachusetts.

But it does appear that New Bedford has some marina facilities already that could be improved upon. And the new casino (assuming it is approved) will improve the aesthetics of part of the waterfront area Heck they could probably build the Olympic marina at the new Casino to leverage that development.
 
On one hand, sailing at the 2016, 2012, and 2008 Olympics are all further from their host city than New Bedford is from Boston.

On the other hand, it was much better to have sailing close to the other venues like in Athens and Sydney.

Admittedly, I am not a sailing expert, but Boston is a harbor city and sailing is a popular sport in Boston Harbor, why not keep it in house?

EDIT: Someone with more knowledge about international sailing competitions and the venues they require can answer this for me: could sailing technically be held on the Charles River? The Mystic River? Dorchester Bay? Quincy Bay? Hingham Bay? Gloucester Harbor? Nahant Bay? Salem Harbor? Marblehead Harbor? Lynn Harbor? Plymouth Harbor?
 
bigeman312 said:
Admittedly, I am not a sailing expert, but Boston is a harbor city and sailing is a popular sport in Boston Harbor, why not keep it in house?

EDIT: Someone with more knowledge about international sailing competitions and the venues they require can answer this for me: could sailing technically be held on the Charles River? The Mystic River? Dorchester Bay? Quincy Bay? Hingham Bay? Gloucester Harbor? Nahant Bay? Salem Harbor? Marblehead Harbor? Lynn Harbor? Plymouth Harbor?
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Boston harbor doesn't have the space necessary to set up courses. You need at minimum a 5 mile by 5 mile square of unobstructed sea.

There are a lot of places on Cape Cod/Mass Bays that would work logistically but they don't generally have consistent winds. The bigger sailing towns around Boston like Marblehead, Hingham and Hull are notorious for light air. Buzzards Bay on the other hand is frighteningly consistent with 10-15 knots out of the southwest being the norm.

Having sailed there my entire life, I'm partial to Buzzards Bay on this but I truly believe it's the best option out there. Newport would be the easy choice logistically but this would be a tremendous opportunity for New Bedford as this would give them the best one design sailing venue on the east coast, ultimately guaranteeing them major national and international regattas well into the future.
 
Don't they hold the NOOD championships on the North Shore? What about the America Cup Prelim festival held within feet of the Seaport (remember the Puma Container Lounge and pop-up?) The Lipton Cup in Quincy? Buzzards Bay is great sailing but if they really wanted the compact olympics I think they could get it. I think this is really about building support for public money,
 
kmp1284 said:
Boston harbor doesn't have the space necessary to set up courses. You need at minimum a 5 mile by 5 mile square of unobstructed sea.

There are a lot of places on Cape Cod/Mass Bays that would work logistically but they don't generally have consistent winds. The bigger sailing towns around Boston like Marblehead, Hingham and Hull are notorious for light air. Buzzards Bay on the other hand is frighteningly consistent with 10-15 knots out of the southwest being the norm.

Having sailed there my entire life, I'm partial to Buzzards Bay on this but I truly believe it's the best option out there. Newport would be the easy choice logistically but this would be a tremendous opportunity for New Bedford as this would give them the best one design sailing venue on the east coast, ultimately guaranteeing them major national and international regattas well into the future.
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Thank you! I will take your word for it. It's a shame, though, as Gloucester or Marblehead (from a non-sailor's point of view) would otherwise seem like perfect hosts for a Boston Olympics.
 
Semass said:
Don't they hold the NOOD championships on the North Shore? What about the America Cup Prelim festival held within feet of the Seaport (remember the Puma Container Lounge and pop-up?) The Lipton Cup in Quincy? Buzzards Bay is great sailing but if they really wanted the compact olympics I think they could get it. I think this is really about building support for public money,
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I don't recall any America's Cup stuff in Boston in my time there. The Volvo Ocean Race came through once(2009 possibly?), that's probably what you're thinking of. I've done the Annapolis NOOD a few times but never the Marblehead one so I can't really speak of that event in specifics beyond to say it doesn't require nearly the degree of shoreside support facilities that an Olympic venue would. The Lipton Cup is a nothing event, the junior regattas at Beverly and New Bedford Yacht Clubs blow that thing out of the water. Additionally, the push for this came from the aforementioned yacht clubs along with leadership from US Sailing.
 
tangent said:
Atlanta's stadium was/is over 300 feet from the highway. And a 100 yard perimeter is what they want. Lucky to get 100 feet from the highway with a stadium at Widett.
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Nevermind about that. I was looking at the I-93 frontage road which is elevated along Widett. I-93N itself is at ground level and further away from the proposed stadium.

No doubt Frontage Rd and part of the Mass Ave connector would have to be shutdown/made restricted access during the days of the ceremonies or during events at the stadium, but I-93N and S might be allowed to stay open.
 
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