Bye Bye Manny

[TheBostonBoy]

As we all know, Manny has been traded to the Dodgers in a three way trade, while our beloved Red Sox have received Jason Bay from the Pirates. I myself, am very unhappy that Manny is no longer on the Sox...I mean I know he is a lazy, selfish douchebag, but I loved the guy nonetheless, and it is really hard to imagine the Sox without him on it. I just thought I would start this thread so people could comment on the trade too, and express their feelings about Manny leaving. So ya, let the ranting begin! Haha

 

[Lrfox]

It was time for him to go. I will always be thankful for 2 World Series and the numerous other memories he left us with. It'll be weird not seeing him and Ortiz high-fiveing after he drives Ortiz in, or one of them homers; but it had gotten to the point where Manny was bringing the clubhouse down. Jason Bay is no replacement Manny, but he is a good player and I never personally put too much stock in Hansen or Moss (who will both probably be fantastic now that they're gone).

It's a bittersweet feeling for me.

 

[Beton Brut]

You've all seen Goodfellas, right? When Tommy gets wacked, Paulie tell's Jimmy, "He had to go...and there was nuttin' we could do about it." That's how I feel. (Felt the same way about Nomar, and we all know how that worked out.)

Hope he wears our cap when he goes into the Hall. He and Torre are gonna have a blast in Chavez Ravine. I may need to stop by for a game when I'm in LA next month.

 

[Suffolk 83]

the... worst trade in the history of baseball. Admittedly Manny was my favorite player because he wasn't a drone. All these people in Boston that hate him are racist bastards because if he was white, and didnt have dreads, people would want him back.

Here's why this is a bad trade. We gave up a hall a famer, paid his entire 2008 remaining salary to the Dodgers, gave up a young live arm bullpen guy in Hanson AND Brandon Moss, an acceptable major league outfielder on alot of teams. Had we kept him till the end of the season even if Manny objected, we could have put him on the DL and said go have a vacation and at the end of the season offered him arbitration, which he would decline and we would have had two sandwich draft picks. Draft picks equal players like Ellsbery and Lester because our scouting is that good. We gave up 4 people theoretically. To get RID of a hall of famer. THE WORST DEAL IN THE HISTORY OF BASEBALL.

Not to mention the fact that if we took Hanson and Moss and dealt them to the Pirates earlier, we could have easily gotten Demaso Marte, instead he's helping the Yankees now in a complete steal of a trade. (still cant figure that one out) So we weakened the teams weakness further by losing Hanson (even though his era was over 5, he was only 24 and threw gas) when we could have added to it.

Jason Bay is hitting .216 with RISP. He's never been on a big stage, he was didnt want to leave Pittsburg. PITTSBURG! They don't have a chance of winning, ever. And he wanted to stay there. Yea he's going to do well here in Boston.

Manny pushed down an older man. I'm not defending it, but he got CRUSIFIED for it. Put this in perspective to what most major leaguers get in trouble for: DUI's- go ask a member of MADD how serious that is. Drugs or beating their wives. Again not defending it, but 65 isn't what 65 was 20 or 30 years ago. And I didn't hear any injuries.

The team was listing and it could have been about Manny, but things were going to die down after the trade deadline.

The ONLY reason why you trade Manny away is actually two things: if Tito and the players demanded he go(I doubt that happened) and two that this gives them the same opportunity as 04 to win the world series by losing a cancer like nomar. Nomar wasn't producing and was often hurt, and he was more of a malcontent than Manny. The 08 version of the Sox doesn't have the bullpen to win the world series anyway, so why trade him and give away two draft picks? Not to mention his off the charts production in the playoffs. Say what you want about him slipping at age 37, I disagree, but 1.) no one was saying this the first month and half of the season. and 2.) he's a proven clutch performer in the playoffs.

THE worst trade in the history of baseball. PERIOD.

Personally I'm sick and tired of watching Red Sox greats finish their careers elsewhere (Boggs and cough cough Clemens, Fisk etc) this is a crime. Then they go into the Hall wearing some other teams cap to the Hall.

Manny wasn't done and as Ken Rosenthal pointed out, the Red Sox sort of did mistreat him. paraphrasing here "you don't see a player of his caliber, HOF caliber being treated this way." He WAS disrespected by the Sox, after the World Series we should have signed him to a 2 or 3 year extension something like 09-20 mil...'10-17.5 mil with incentives to earn 22-24 mil and the same with '11. I know this is a business, but I think they owe the fans this(because before the sox smear campaign and Manny popping off, we all loved him... Remember April and May? Remember #500?) and they owed to show just one player some loyalty.

 

[Suffolk 83]

From Jason Stark ESPN.com

LOSERS

? Red Sox

The eviction of Ramirez is a story with so many levels that it's impossible to sum them all up with a one-word label such as "winner" or "loser." We recognize that. There's also a value to subtracting a selfish, disruptive, divisive knucklehead like Manny from an otherwise-harmonious, purposeful clubhouse. We recognize that, too.

And Jason Bay is a heck of a player, one who can stick around and patrol left field in Fenway next year, too. We recognize all of that. Honestly, if the Red Sox went out now and won another World Series, it wouldn't shock us a bit.

[+] EnlargeOtto Greule Jr/Getty Images

The Dodgers, second-to-last in the NL in homers, could use Ramirez's bat.
But they still find themselves dumped into the Losers column of this opus because this trade marks the end of a special era in the life of their team. They have a different aura now than they had a week ago. And the reaction of folks all over their division to Manny's unceremonious exit -- an exit subsidized with $7 million of those hard-earned Red Sox dollars, we should note -- told us all we needed to know:

It felt like Mardi Gras for the rest of the AL East.

"Don't get me wrong," said an executive of one AL East club. "The Red Sox do a great job. They utilize every advantage they have, and they use all their resources as well as anyone. But sometimes, I don't think even they realized what they had in Manny. When Manny comes up, you feel like you have to pass out ex-lax to your whole team because everybody gets a sick feeling in their stomach -- especially when he had [David] Ortiz there in the middle with him.

"Look, Jason Bay is a great player. But he's not Manny. You're talking about one of the greatest right-handed hitters in the history of the game. I've seen so many situations where you'd think you've got a game, and then all of a sudden that guy came up and everything changed. I've seen what he does to pitchers. I've seen how he changes games. They'll miss that. That's all I can say."

 

[statler]

I voted that this was a bad deal, but I'm already sick of hearing about it.

Unless the Sox win the WS, baseball shouldn't be the top story on Boston.com for more than an hour. If that.

 

[KentXie]

the... worst trade in the history of baseball. Admittedly Manny was my favorite player because he wasn't a drone. All these people in Boston that hate him are racist bastards because if he was white, and didnt have dreads, people would want him back.

I'm sorry but WHAT? Racism played absolutely no part in this trade. The guy was a goof. Like what Schilling said, how can you play with a guy who doesn't even want to play with you or with the team. He lacked effort in recent months and his fake injuries is childish. He is a distraction to the rest of the team and the fact they are losing so frequently recently is proof of that. His production level has dropped and is no longer worth the 20 million dollar that is paid to him.

For the trade, the trade was crap, absolutely horrible. I wanted Manny to go but to get one guy for a HOF and 2 prospects? That's a joke. Manny was worth more than Jason Bay already but we had to also ship Moss and Hansen. What was Epstein thinking? He should have pitched in for another reliever or at least get a draft pick or something else in return. We even have to pay Manny's remaining 7 mil for the year. The trade was beneficial to two of the three teams and the Red Sox isn't one of those two.

 

[Scott]

My take is: The Sox weren't going to sign Manny anyway and would have lost him for nothing at the end of the year and they would not have been able to sign a Jason Bay in free agency. Every other piece of the deal could be replaced thru free agency because the Red Sox are willing to spend more money than everyone except maybe the Yankees.

Manny was a major part of two World Series, ending an 86 year drought and should be remembered fondly in this town for it, not this childish melt down of the last few months.

 

[blade_bltz]

I like the Goodfellas analogy...

Pesci ruthlessly shoots and kills a young kid who doesn't tell him what he wants to hear.

Manny ruthlessly shoves an elderly man who doesn't tell him what he wants to hear.

Anyway, we've got to accept that everything could have worked out if Manny had not himself deliberately chosen to piss off the team and the front office these past few weeks/months with his antics.

As a fan, though, rooting for the Sox will never be the same. When I see Manny smoking balls into the seats at Dodger Stadium, I get irrationally bitter and jealous. It's good and well to have a bunch of "team players" who "grit" their way to success. It's another thing to have a prolific Hall of Famer grace your lineup (nearly) every game. Nothing was as electric as Pedro/Manny. Period.

The current Red Sox Nation paradigm of gritty blue collar ball players meets exorbitant ticket prices and pink hats is really quite lame. Anybody who raises a "Manny Who?" sign at Fenway ought to be executed.

 

[Beton Brut]

Pesci ruthlessly shoots and kills a young kid who doesn't tell him what he wants to hear.

Manny ruthlessly shoves an elderly man who doesn't tell him what he wants to hear.

Glad you like the analogy -- as point of fact, Tommy gets wacked for killing Billy Batts (a made guy), not Spider (who no one gave a shit about). But that's neither here nor there...

I have another thought on Manny's increasingly gonzo behavior this summer. Anyone think Ortiz's injury and subsequent absence from the clubhouse had an effect on Manny's psyche?

 

[blade_bltz]

Oh yeah I realize the Billy Batts incident was the reason for the whack job - I mention the Spider killing because I find it the most insidious of Tommy's little outbursts.

Just Tommy being Tommy?

 

[Suffolk 83]

racism played a huge part in how quickly people in this town turned on him. Beton, could be, I think it was Scott Boras playing the major role in this cinematic experience.

 

[bosdevelopment]

I thought you said that I was alright, spider.

 

[Lrfox]

I think Scott Boras played a big role in all of the theatrics. It's proof that the man (Boras) has wayyyy too much influence over the game. Manny had a contract, Boras should encourage his client to honor it until the end. Instead, he pulled the the strings on his "Manny-anette" to drive the Red Sox and Manny apart (thus leading to no option being picked up after the season). This was all evidenced in Gordon Edes (?) revelation that Boras called Theo after the trade was reported and said if the Sox dropped the option, then Manny would be a good citizen. It's borderline blackmail and proof that someone who doesn't play the game or have a position in MLB, has WAY too much power. It's a shame it had to end this way.

That being said, I don't think racism (Suff, your comment wasn't sarcastic right? or did I miss something?) played a role in how quickly people turned on him as much as media attention combined with decreased perfomance did. WEEI absolutely tore him apart in the weeks leading up to the trade, and constantly cited that his numbers and playing time are decreasing while bad incidents are increasing. Even when little issues arose in the past, it was played up by the much maligned national media (ESPN, SI, etc), not local sources, and it was during times where he was playing exceedingly well (the "If we lose, it's ok" comments last year while he was hammering the ball in the playoffs), and people overlooked the negative in favor of the positive.

At this point, there was less positive to focus on. It felt like he gave up on the team, his teammates, and developed a negative attitude (hitting Youk and pushing an old man). In the past, his attitude, while not great, was more carefree and easy going (and again, the numbers were there to divert attention).

In the end, I'll miss his production and the Manny being Manny moments (high-five in the middle of a double play, running out to left with an American Flag, disappearing in the scoreboard, "I'm a bad man," etc); but it was time for him to move on. I hope that when/ if he comes back to Fenway in whatever uniform, he gets a standing ovation. He deserves it for all that he's done. These past few months should not overshadow what he provided fans with for the better part of a decade.

 

[BostonSkyGuy]

Anyone who thinks this trade is "the worst trade ever" or just a horrible trade in general, is out of their minds.


1- The Red Sox HAD to get rid of Manny. He wasn't happy here, he was taking games and at-bats off (see him vs. Rivera when he pinch-hit and took 3 straight strikes), and was becoming a pain in the ass in the club house. There's only so much you can take from one guy. While he was throwing out .300, 30-40 HR, 100-120+ RBI seasons, you could look the other way on some of his antics. This year his numbers weren't that great, last year he had an "average" season by a major league corner outfielder and he's 36--his numbers aren't going to magically get back to where they once were.

2- Even if the Sox kept Manny, who knows if he was going to actually play. He was famous for claming injuries that weren't there and quitting on the team. See the end of the '06 season when the Sox weren't playing well (injuries played a big part) and Manny just took the last month and a half off. So they keep Manny, he plays when he wants and everyone screams that they should have traded him.

OR...they keep Manny, he keeps his mouth shut and puts up decent numbers the rest of the season. No doubt the Red Sox let him go at the end of the season, decline his '09 option, offer him salary arbitration (which he'd no doubt decline), and get two draft picks in the top 35-40.

If the second scenerio occurs, then what? You're going to need to find another middle of the order type left fielder to replace Manny. Go and take a look at the free agents, who were you going to bring in Pat Burrell?

So essentially the Sox traded Brandon Moss (a solid outfielder, probably won't be an All-Star), and Craig Hansen who could be a good set-up man, or a bust for Jason Bay who is about a .290-25-30HR, 100 RBI guy. That's more than a suitable replacement for a 37-year old (next season) Manny. You have Bay for NEXT season as well, if he works out you can re-sign him. If not, you let him go and get the same type draft picks (Type A) that you'd have gotten for Manny.

Argue that they had to throw in the money all you want. Bay is making 5 million this season, the Sox will pay roughly 1/3 of that which is a little over 1.5 million, and it's almost like they just added a small piece at the trade deadline and kept Manny. The money is a non-issue.

3- For those of you who blame the Red Sox in all this, think about it this way. If Manny had kept his mouth shut, and not made a big deal about the contract (which he signed by the way, giving the Red Sox the team options in consecutive years) then the Red Sox could have moved Hansen and Moss for a middle-reliever. The team without a doubt would have been better with Manny + a solid middle reliever than just Jason Bay. In the end, Manny forced his way out of town, the club house (players) got sick of him, and they couldn't trust that he'd play the rest of the season.

As for the racism issue, Nomar had it way worse on his way out. So did Drew Bledsoe. I don't buy the fact that Manny is being semi-trashed (it's still split with Manny lovers and people who got sick of him) because he's Dominican.

I was the biggest Manny fan and over-looked a lot of the dumb things he's done. I'm not talking about going inside the wall or slapping a fan high-five, those were quirky things that made it fun to watch this guy play. Same thing with Tavarez, he was a goofball and did crazy things you never see on the field. The different between Manny and Tavarez is that Tavarez would pitch 100 days in a row if you asked him to because he wanted to win and didn't want to let his team down. Manny would quit and whine if he didn't get his way, and that's what soured me on him. I'll look back at the Manny-era as a positive experience as a whole, he's still the greatest right handed hitter I've ever seen and I'll tell my kids that. I just won't forget that he quit on the team over money when he was already one of the highest paid players in the game.

 

[Suffolk 83]

To the SkyGuy, call me when the season's over and we lose to the Angels because we dont have enough offense for their great pitching. Let's see Jason Bay in the playoffs. We all know what Manny would've done.

 

[BostonSkyGuy]

You're going under the assumption that you'd have the Manny now playing for the Dodgers and not the sulking Manny the Sox had for the last two weeks he was on the team. That's what everyone is missing with this trade. Who knows which Manny you'd have gotten for the last two months of the season?

I don't think even with Manny this Sox team was good enough to beat the Angels, I think they have the best pitching and with the addition of Texiera their offense got a huge upgrade. If we lost to the Angels it won't be because of offense, it will be because the Red Sox didn't pitch well, or that the Angels pitching was as it is now--dominant. Even WITH Manny go back and look at what the Sox did against Good to Very Good pitchers. They didn't fare well. Why do you think they look so good against the A's and Royals? Aside from Ducherer (who is pretty good) and Meche (who is average) they faced Triple-A quality guys, and mashed them.

 

[buju b]

Re: Green Line to Medford to start in 2011

And I damn-sure won't miss what manny had become . . . how is it possible to miss such an unprofessional, selfish child who so blatantly disgregarded the best interests of his team? Good riddance.

 

[TheBostonBoy]

Ya, i feel a lot better now. And Jason Bay is a great guy, I really love having him on the team...I don't think we could have gotten anyone better to bring up the team spirit and give the fans a player they love. He is just a great player.