Chinatown - Progress or Gentrification?

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Bobby Digital

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that proposed tower that wont ever get built, and should never be called "south bay"..... its not even close to that. As for chinatown, I'm personally in favor of saving it, but i think economically and culturally, its already moving to Quincy more and more. ( if thats possible)

Who cares where the actual 'Chinatown' is anyways? tourists? Chinatown as it stands today is already pretty small. I could be wrong but i believe Quincy is more chinatown than Chinatown is, with exceptions being more popular Asian retail still existing in Chinatown. Of course, Quincy is not just Chinese by a long shot. I'm sure i just insulted many Asians in Quincy by calling it Chinatown, since the different ethnic groups there sometimes despise each other, even though some of us white people cant tell the difference.

I Could be wrong, but doesnt Quincy have one of the highest Asian concentrations? at least, obviously, in New England and possibly far beyond in the US.?
 
Actually, the people from Chinatown are actually for the project as long as they put some affordable housing in it.
 
I never really noticed a higher than average Asian population in Quincy. It certainly has nothing on towns in metro New York or California in this regard.

That Chinatown's population is being lost to the suburbs is documented. There may be a diaspora community in Quincy; I believe there's one in Malden.
 
I never really noticed a higher than average Asian population in Quincy.
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You dont even need to get off the red line and actually step foot in Quincy to pick that one up.
 
Haha^

It's obvious. Next time you're at the Wollaston or N. Quincy stop look at the platform and look around you. or if you're anywhere else along the route, look around for News papers written in Mandarin (I'm not quite sure on this one, certainly not English though).

@Patriots- Welcome to Archboston, I know you from Sc4 (and simtropolis.com and i love your 3D modeling. you can use that here to provide insight on Boston architecture (for example, if we want to see what a different spire looks like on Transnational place, you can quickly show us with Gmax, or 3dsMax). Chances are you're the youngest member here too, but welcome.

Anyways, This tower seems dead and it looks as if it's not coming back.
 
Bobby Digital said:
As for chinatown, I'm personally in favor of saving it, but i think economically and culturally, its already moving to Quincy more and more. ( if thats possible)

Who cares where the actual 'Chinatown' is anyways? tourists? Chinatown as it stands today is already pretty small. I could be wrong but i believe Quincy is more chinatown than Chinatown is, with exceptions being more popular Asian retail still existing in Chinatown. Of course, Quincy is not just Chinese by a long shot. I'm sure i just insulted many Asians in Quincy by calling it Chinatown, since the different ethnic groups there sometimes despise each other, even though some of us white people cant tell the difference.
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Bobby, I find you post incredibly ignorant and myopic. What grounds do you have to decide whether Chinatown is worth saving? And who are you to assume that everyone who posts here is white?
 
^I would agree about the general tone of the post, but it is well within his right to state his opinion as to whether Chinatown is worth saving. He's not making decisions, he's just stating his opinion of perhaps what his decision would be if he had the authority. You may not like it, and certainly not agree with it, but it is certainly his right to voice his opinion on the matter...that's what we're doing here.
My opinion is that the post was a bit callous, but I agree that no action should be taken to, for lack of a better phrase, to "save" Chinatown.
I'd really like you to tell me in your opinion what should be done to save Chinatown, and what is wrong with not wanting to save Chinatown.
 
In NYC the "Chinatown" is a theme park. Yes people do still live and work there (in sweatshop conditions) but it is geared more towards the tourists. If you take the 7 train out to Flushing there you will find the real Chinatown.

So it isn't surprising at all to see what is happening to Chinatown in Boston.
 
From what my friends tell me, isn't NYC chinatown invading NYC little italy?

Should one save little italy?
 
^ I think maybe Mott and possibly Canal streets are touristy, but the rest of Manhattan's Chinatown still has workaday aspects.

As for Little Italy, it's now shell of tourist-trap restaurants along one street (Mulberry) interspersed by souvenir shops and completely engulfed in Chinatown.
 
palindrome said:
From what my friends tell me, isn't NYC chinatown invading NYC little italy?

Should one save little italy?
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Little Italy is a bunch of Jersey dudes hanging out front of a storefront. There are a couple pizza shops down there and that is it. You look at the windows above them and it is all Asian faces looking down at you.

Little Italy exists as a name only.

So to bring this back around, it is entirely possible and probable that Boston's Chinatown could end up like New York's Little Italy.
 
Or like the North End? Still Italian culturally and commercially, less so residentially.
 
nico said:
^I would agree about the general tone of the post, but it is well within his right to state his opinion as to whether Chinatown is worth saving. He's not making decisions, he's just stating his opinion of perhaps what his decision would be if he had the authority. You may not like it, and certainly not agree with it, but it is certainly his right to voice his opinion on the matter...that's what we're doing here.
My opinion is that the post was a bit callous, but I agree that no action should be taken to, for lack of a better phrase, to "save" Chinatown.
I'd really like you to tell me in your opinion what should be done to save Chinatown, and what is wrong with not wanting to save Chinatown.
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You're right, Nico. I came off way too confrontational. Sorry, Bobby. What I was trying to get at is that we should all be conscientious when opining about groups/neighborhoods/people that are apart from us. For example, I live in Allston. If some guy from say Montana made a judgment about my neighborhood, I would question his credibility. Is there anyone repping Chinatown on this forum? I'd like to hear what he/she has to say about others talking about their neighborhood.

That said, I think any neighborhood facing gentrification (Chinatown, etc.) needs the attention of policies to mitigate pressure on existing residents. I'm talking about Inclusionary Zoning to increase affordable housing stock and homebuyer training classes to increase homeownership rates.
 
saltbox said:
Bobby Digital said:
As for chinatown, I'm personally in favor of saving it, but i think economically and culturally, its already moving to Quincy more and more. ( if thats possible)

Who cares where the actual 'Chinatown' is anyways? tourists? Chinatown as it stands today is already pretty small. I could be wrong but i believe Quincy is more chinatown than Chinatown is, with exceptions being more popular Asian retail still existing in Chinatown. Of course, Quincy is not just Chinese by a long shot. I'm sure i just insulted many Asians in Quincy by calling it Chinatown, since the different ethnic groups there sometimes despise each other, even though some of us white people cant tell the difference.
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Bobby, I find you post incredibly ignorant and myopic. What grounds do you have to decide whether Chinatown is worth saving? And who are you to assume that everyone who posts here is white?
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Woa hey now. take a deep breathe and relax over there. I said i "personally" ... which means I understand its my personal opinion.

And there are a lot of chinese people in quincy.... http://www.iaas.umb.edu/publications/general/ChAminMA.pdf

the part about 'us' white people not being able to tell the difference, no where in there did I say I couldnt tell, because I can.

and most of the people on here are white.

dont call me ignorant again fuckbag.
 
I have followed this forum since its beginning and was a fan of Boston skyscraper guy as well. I have not done much "notable" in terms of contribution, but still like to review all the cool topics.

I wonder why some seem to feel there is absolutely nothing wrong with what's going on in Chinatown. Don't get me wrong, I'm for progress 100%, but think there should be a bit more compassion for the residents of Chinatown. Why is it that folks in Beacon Hill can complain about a college dorm tower ruining the fabric of their beautiful neighborhood, but the residents of Chinatown should deal with whatever change is thrown their way? If they can't afford to live there, then too bad? How would you feel if your neighborhood began to change so rapidly and you couldn't afford to live there? Opinion is part of discussion and definitely part of life, but some of the things said on this forum really seem wrong to me.

But... then again, this is Boston, MA -- and my experiences reading comments on this forum are not far off from what it feels like to live in this city... I've read some pretty opinionated comments about my neighborhood of Roxbury and man did that set the tone for me.

Anyone against building low-income housing complexes in Wellesley and Newton?
 
Yes, I am actually very opposed to building low income complexes in Newton. call me a newton snob or whatnot, but I grew up in newton (wealthy area) and I like the bubble that it is. I believe that creating low-income housing will just create an influx of crime within the community that I do not want to see. I love the fact it is one of the safest communities in the US and am in no hurry to see it change. Low-income housing if for places like Dorchester, Southie, Roslindale, Revere and Medford. So, yes. I am a partial Newton NIMBY, however I am not opposed to seeing new projects within Newton. There had been some discussion about creating a parking Garage and bigger buildings within Newton Center. Which in my opinion is a very creative idea and would be beneficial to the Newton Community. However my main concern was the amount of traffic on the Beacon Street, Comm Ave and Center Street area. (If any of you have been in that area during rush hour or on a Friday afternoon you KNOW how bad that area can be). There is just no way the current roads would be able to accommodate the new traffic.

However it is unfortunate when good projects get axed for stupid reasons. About ten years ago I think a Stop and Shop wanted a store on Needham Street. In creating this store they would have widened Needham Street by having two lanes on either side (as opposed to two lane +1 in the middle mess that is is now) businesses all around would have benefited, however they didn't want to be inconvenienced for the time it would have taken to complete this project. It pisses me off that people in some areas are so short sighted and don't understand the big picture of how some projects can be highly beneificial to their cities. Sorry about the rant, got a little carried away there.
 
I think that it is ignorant to assume that just because a housing development is low income that it will automatically lead to crime. On the other hand I think that it isn't right to force a community to assimilate socio-economically if they don't want to. People move places for various reasons but one of the most important is that they feel secure there. Obviously people in Newton are frightened by poor people and don't want them. Lets face it, Boston isn't good with assimilation. I don't want to sound like I am supporting segregation but I think that wealth certainly trumps race. If you started building low-income projects in Newton I'd be willing to bet most people there now would move out and the area would turn into the next Roxbury.

I say we should be investing new housing developments in Roxbury and Dorchester where they would fit in better and there is cheaper land more available. People of similar means feel more secure with one another than people of different means. The concept of putting poor people next to rich people so they can learn how to pull themselves up and be better citizens is a laughable relic from Victorian times that needs to stop.

As for Chinatown I think it is a shame what is happening but it is a testament to the lack of care Boston has for its poor in the way of development. This is nothing new and should come as no shock to anyone who has looked at Boston's history. I still say what needs to be done is for the city to sit down with the residents and hack out a plan that allows for growth AND protection of neighborhood identity.
 
theculprit said:
It pisses me off that people in some areas are so short sighted and don't understand the big picture of how some projects can be highly beneificial to their cities. Sorry about the rant, got a little carried away there.
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Re-read your post and then you'll see why this blurb is full of irony.
 
Okay to complain

"Why is it that folks in Beacon Hill can complain about a college dorm tower ruining the fabric of their beautiful neighborhood, but the residents of Chinatown should deal with whatever change is thrown their way?"

What are you basing this statement on? Are you basing it on the comments from the people in this forum, because I don't think Beacon Hill NIMBYs are treated any differently than those who oppose development in Chinatown. And it's completely disingenuous to suggest that the city's media treats the neighborhoods differently. Go back and look at the press regarding the dorm in Beacon Hill and the towers in Chinatown (I was part of the development team in both cases, so I paid pretty close attention). You will find that the press LOVES to champion the cause of the underdog immigrant community fighting against the ruthless, community destroying developer.

As far as I am concerned the comment quoted above is an example where one's preconceived assumptions distort the reality of events on the ground. When it comes to the reaction and treatment from the press, the administration and the people on this forum, it's simply not true that rich white people in Beacon Hill are treated markedly better than the Asian community in Chinatown. That may seem counter-intuitive, and it certainly doesn't fit our cultural narrative, but it is demonstrably true.

Look at the evidence: if the neighborhood really puts up a stink and fights a development, the city will fold its cards, regardless if that development is in Charlestown, Roxbury or South Boston. If the press has the chance to pitch a story about a big rich developer slamming a development down the throat of the irreproachable community, it will sell that story. And lastly, whether its a NIMBY group in the South End, or Chinatown or wherever, it's a pretty safe bet that the people on this forum will sound off about how shortsighted and misled those groups are. I happen to generally agree with the folks on this forum, but in almost every case, the reactions described above do not differ greatly regardless of where the development is located.
 
Yes, perhaps it is wrong to say that it is ignorant to correlate low income housing with crime. However I am just signaling out newton here. I believe that for Newton and ONLY Newton, low income housing would lead to an increased crime rate. Newton is extrememly skewed though because its an extremely safe city which is not the norm. As for what I said about the first project in Newton, I think it would be great for the city, except it doesnt address the traffic issue, which is a REAL issue. get a plan in there that improves the roads and transportation then a lot more people would be behind the idea. It's issues such as whether or not a building will cast a shadow for 15 minutes on a friggin park that are absolutely ridiculous.[/u]
 
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