City Hall Plaza Revamp | Government Center
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BronsonShore
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
The reason was lack of desire by the powers that be. Regardless of whether testing is or is not happening at City Hall Plaza, they easily could have moved Boston Winter instead of cancelling it. There's plenty of space around the Frog Pond skating rink to create something similar. Or scaled-down versions could have been done at Downtown Crossing, the Greenway, Columbus Park, Copley Square. . .
They didn't even try to save it.
The reason was lack of desire by the powers that be. Regardless of whether testing is or is not happening at City Hall Plaza, they easily could have moved Boston Winter instead of cancelling it. There's plenty of space around the Frog Pond skating rink to create something similar. Or scaled-down versions could have been done at Downtown Crossing, the Greenway, Columbus Park, Copley Square. . .
They didn't even try to save it.
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Worth it to write to/speak to Delaware North, who I believe operated it, and see if they can cooperate with the city for a new location? Or could that have already happened and the city just said no?
Worth it to write to/speak to Delaware North, who I believe operated it, and see if they can cooperate with the city for a new location? Or could that have already happened and the city just said no?
Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Yes, the thing could've been moved--yet you definitely weren't going to have either the developer, nor their subcontractor, given the rather vicious litigation they were embroiled in.
If the City of Boston lacked the vision/energy/resources over a very short period of time to reincarnate this puppy lacking BOTH the original developer and their contractor... can you really blame it?!?
To ignore/whitewash the impact of what the Globe depicted as very nasty--and surely demoralizing/draining--litigation, is curious, to say the least...
Yes, the thing could've been moved--yet you definitely weren't going to have either the developer, nor their subcontractor, given the rather vicious litigation they were embroiled in.
If the City of Boston lacked the vision/energy/resources over a very short period of time to reincarnate this puppy lacking BOTH the original developer and their contractor... can you really blame it?!?
To ignore/whitewash the impact of what the Globe depicted as very nasty--and surely demoralizing/draining--litigation, is curious, to say the least...
odurandina
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
what the fuck happened to Boston Winter??
what the fuck happened to Boston Winter??
Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Yikes. Tl;dr of the globe article:
- Foot traffic was lower than expected
- So the company hired by Delaware North to run the event (Called Boston Winter LLC) didn't make as much money as they thought they would, nor did most of the vendors who signed on).
- BWLLC blamed DN for the shortfall, and apparently kept some cash that DN made as advanced payments (claiming among other things that DN didnt provide the right kind of electical power on the plaza, and that the skating rink ate into the equivalent of 'leasable space')
- BWLLC further claimed that DN wasn't actually committed to making the event a success because DN was just doing it as a favor / 'quid pro quo' in exchange for permits on Hub on Causewau' (i.e. BWLLC alleged that DN wasn;t actually interested in anyone making money on the Boston Winter).
Ultimately I think the answer is simply that they didn't get enough foot traffic to make it pay.
My own opinion is that it was probably too far removed from established retail areas for it to work. I know its almost in between DTX and Faneuil Hall, but ultimately I think that most people who went there had to seek it out, rather than wandering in as part of their shopping time. Copley or the front plaza around faneuil hall would probably be a much better bet next time.
Yikes. Tl;dr of the globe article:
- Foot traffic was lower than expected
- So the company hired by Delaware North to run the event (Called Boston Winter LLC) didn't make as much money as they thought they would, nor did most of the vendors who signed on).
- BWLLC blamed DN for the shortfall, and apparently kept some cash that DN made as advanced payments (claiming among other things that DN didnt provide the right kind of electical power on the plaza, and that the skating rink ate into the equivalent of 'leasable space')
- BWLLC further claimed that DN wasn't actually committed to making the event a success because DN was just doing it as a favor / 'quid pro quo' in exchange for permits on Hub on Causewau' (i.e. BWLLC alleged that DN wasn;t actually interested in anyone making money on the Boston Winter).
Ultimately I think the answer is simply that they didn't get enough foot traffic to make it pay.
My own opinion is that it was probably too far removed from established retail areas for it to work. I know its almost in between DTX and Faneuil Hall, but ultimately I think that most people who went there had to seek it out, rather than wandering in as part of their shopping time. Copley or the front plaza around faneuil hall would probably be a much better bet next time.
tangent
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Honestly, I think it was just a run of bad weather that coincided with Saturdays...
They should lower expectations, lower costs and try again.
Honestly, I think it was just a run of bad weather that coincided with Saturdays...
They should lower expectations, lower costs and try again.
odurandina
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Wow. Thanks for condensing and explaining. Maybe the 2nd year would have been better.... or they can try a reboot in a few years after the West End and Downtown fills in.
Wow. Thanks for condensing and explaining. Maybe the 2nd year would have been better.... or they can try a reboot in a few years after the West End and Downtown fills in.
Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
I'm not sure how effective their marketing was, because this is usually a hit with most people, yuppies, families, older couples, suburbanites, etc. It seemed plenty effective to me, because, as statler said, whenever I was there it was crowded beyond comfort at times.
Kinda strange they're not happy about the first year's performance, when something like this would grow considerably the following year(s) from word of mouth.
Also, I've had to correct several friends that have reshared the promotional video some news channel did for it last year on Facebook. Looking at the comments, looks like a lot of people think it's happening this year without checking the date of the video.
I'm not sure how effective their marketing was, because this is usually a hit with most people, yuppies, families, older couples, suburbanites, etc. It seemed plenty effective to me, because, as statler said, whenever I was there it was crowded beyond comfort at times.
Kinda strange they're not happy about the first year's performance, when something like this would grow considerably the following year(s) from word of mouth.
Also, I've had to correct several friends that have reshared the promotional video some news channel did for it last year on Facebook. Looking at the comments, looks like a lot of people think it's happening this year without checking the date of the video.
odurandina
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Five plans that would’ve changed the face of Boston
(#4 is City Hall)
https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazin...ff-for-nasa/RpgvOmIJQgP1GKZI1C581H/story.html
Five plans that would’ve changed the face of Boston
(#4 is City Hall)
https://www.bostonglobe.com/magazin...ff-for-nasa/RpgvOmIJQgP1GKZI1C581H/story.html
Blackbird
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Maybe I didn’t go at a good time, but it was pretty dead when I swung by last year. Iirc, there wasn’t nearly enough mulled wine, candied nuts, live music, or sausages. It was just a small collection of over-priced craft stores.
Maybe I didn’t go at a good time, but it was pretty dead when I swung by last year. Iirc, there wasn’t nearly enough mulled wine, candied nuts, live music, or sausages. It was just a small collection of over-priced craft stores.
Jouhou
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Honestly, this really is further evidence that the plaza is not and will continue to not be an environment that draws people in. It's time to take a picture and just start building on the plaza as if it were vacant property. City hall too. Make a model of it, put it in a museum, make something more functional for humans and less brutalist art.
Honestly, this really is further evidence that the plaza is not and will continue to not be an environment that draws people in. It's time to take a picture and just start building on the plaza as if it were vacant property. City hall too. Make a model of it, put it in a museum, make something more functional for humans and less brutalist art.
Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
I don't buy that answer. They touted great attendance last year. If anything, vendors had issues with management of the event, not so much the foot traffic. There was very public bickering between the city, Delaware North, and the subcontractor, Millennial Exhibitions, over contracts and finances. From their perspective it's much easier play victim and say "poor us, nobody came!" than it is take ownership and say, "yeah, we fucked it all up, so we're not doing this cool event anymore."
Having visited this one frequently, the crowds were there day and night. My issues with it were the layout and the aesthetic (or lack thereof - see Chicago's or Quebec City's for how good North American Christmas Markets should look). I agree with Blackbird's point about the food/wine vendors. They did that all wrong. There should have been more of them, more sitting areas (an outdoor central bar with heaters/fire, etc. and small kiosks selling all sorts of comfort snacks/drinks), and more variety. Those are what make people linger and spend money on the shops instead of just pass through. All of that is poor management, not attendance.
And the cold is a weak excuse. These are cold weather events. Quebec and Chicago, both of which are colder than Boston, have excellent markets that are holiday season highlights on cold nights. People enjoy getting bundled up and walking through. That's part of the fun. A little snow? Even better.
Hopefully we take a year off and reassess. No reason this can't be successful here.
I don't buy that answer. They touted great attendance last year. If anything, vendors had issues with management of the event, not so much the foot traffic. There was very public bickering between the city, Delaware North, and the subcontractor, Millennial Exhibitions, over contracts and finances. From their perspective it's much easier play victim and say "poor us, nobody came!" than it is take ownership and say, "yeah, we fucked it all up, so we're not doing this cool event anymore."
Having visited this one frequently, the crowds were there day and night. My issues with it were the layout and the aesthetic (or lack thereof - see Chicago's or Quebec City's for how good North American Christmas Markets should look). I agree with Blackbird's point about the food/wine vendors. They did that all wrong. There should have been more of them, more sitting areas (an outdoor central bar with heaters/fire, etc. and small kiosks selling all sorts of comfort snacks/drinks), and more variety. Those are what make people linger and spend money on the shops instead of just pass through. All of that is poor management, not attendance.
And the cold is a weak excuse. These are cold weather events. Quebec and Chicago, both of which are colder than Boston, have excellent markets that are holiday season highlights on cold nights. People enjoy getting bundled up and walking through. That's part of the fun. A little snow? Even better.
Hopefully we take a year off and reassess. No reason this can't be successful here.
Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
^ Yeah that explanation works for me too.
I've been to a lot of Xmas markets in a lot of places, and 100% agree that without gluwein and comfort food (and a well designed sense of place) it was just a bunch of craft kiosks
^ Yeah that explanation works for me too.
I've been to a lot of Xmas markets in a lot of places, and 100% agree that without gluwein and comfort food (and a well designed sense of place) it was just a bunch of craft kiosks
odurandina
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Holy shit.....
i want to post this here and thank God it was never shown to Kevin White.....
https://www.dezeen.com/2016/09/14/t...el-staircase-sculpture-hudson-yards-new-york/
Holy shit.....
i want to post this here and thank God it was never shown to Kevin White.....
https://www.dezeen.com/2016/09/14/t...el-staircase-sculpture-hudson-yards-new-york/
underground
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Re: Official City Hall Plaza Proposals
Foot traffic wasn't at all helped by the fact that they decided to have a gate for a non-ticketed event, only have one gate, and have that gate be poorly marked.
Foot traffic wasn't at all helped by the fact that they decided to have a gate for a non-ticketed event, only have one gate, and have that gate be poorly marked.