City Hall Plaza Revamp | Government Center

I will admit it took me a few in-depth looks at these pictures before I fully realized that this isn't a sprucing up on the edge that faces Congress Street. They were pretty serious in the design changes:
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This is a new "civic space" with community programming, public restrooms, and mechanical support for the plaza.

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Apparently this "play sculpture" re-interprets the concrete structures of the plaza - I like re-interpretive architecture and design with context in mind, but this is pushing it a little...

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As much as I still hate that this plaza is as open as it is, I will say they did a good job in suggesting fluid motion through the space. Also note the future phase area..

Images from Sasaki's website.
 
JeffDowntown said:
I still think the freakier thing is the small, shallow tunnel that is perpendicular to the GL tunnel -- heading back to the JFK building.
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This is from today. They kept a portion of the stairs intact, and it appears that there may be a second tunnel beneath them. Meanwhile, they've cut two trenches a few feet into the floor of the former tunnel, but obviously not deep enough to penetrate the Green Line tunnel, and have begun pouring two parallel concrete walls. The mystery deepens. Regarding the "Future Phase", per the city's assessing data, that area (with the trees today, being used for staging) is owned by the United States and isn't part of this project right now.
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Look like they have created two load distribution beans to keep the load of whatever caps that area off of the Green Line tunnel and whatever is going on around those stairs.
 
Roxxma said:
Regarding the "Future Phase", per the city's assessing data, that area (with the trees today, being used for staging) is owned by the United States and isn't part of this project right now.
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Actually, according to the City's assessing data it is owned by the BRA. While it is part of Phase 2, the City controls the land through the BRA.

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dirtywater said:
Actually, according to the City's assessing data it is owned by the BRA. While it is part of Phase 2, the City controls the land through the BRA.

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I guess I stand corrected, I had seen a map at one point that showed that square area under control of the US government. It may have reflected a subparcel or a long term lease from BRA (which don't always show up on the online assessing maps; for example, the MBTA tunnels underneath the Plaza are almost certainly owned by MassDOT or its subagencies, or the tunnels from the JFK building are likely US owned but don't show on the online map), or it the bounds may have changed in recent years. The assessing online tool is useful, but usually only shows the metes and bounds at the surface level.
 
"Sears Crescent" that used to be a sears store?
 
My two cents: Overall plan is good. However, get rid of the gimmicky areas that will have little or no meaning without laborious explanation: 1: Congress St. Civic Space? It's the bathrooms, Harry! And they're in an ugly bunker. 4: Adventure Play Slope?? How long will this complicated area last without vandalism? Also I smell lawsuits as kids get hurt and parents blame the city. And where are these kids coming from in the first place? This is not a family neighborhood. 5. North Entry Court? It has always been a phantom entrance to City Hall...Hopefully they'll rework this to make it the important access to services it was meant to be. 6: Amphitheater steps. Let's be real; call it what it is, a place to sit down and have lunch. 7: Water wall...will it last longer than the last fountain, the one they covered up with concrete? 12: Cambridge Terraces? What does that mean? Just put up some decent benches, lots of them, under the trees. And skip the anti-homeless person design that is purposely small and uncomfortable. 13: Speakers' Corner...are they kidding? Who do they think will be speaking? Even the Common has lost its status as a place for public discourse. 16: Future Phase...how far into the future? Will I live to see it happen? Why isn't the area around the Sears Crescent addressed now? It is a dismal hill that never lived up to it's promises of outdoor cafes and decent (non fast food) restaurants. All the rest are excellent ideas that are not as gimmicky. I'd love to see a seasonal cafe/lunch establishment in the City Hall open court that has been inaccessible for most of my life, yet has the promise of being quite a beautiful area. And please plant even more trees! Keep in mind the climate and the tendency for die-back of most of trees I've ever seen planted along streets or on hardscape in Boston.
 
Dog Park section would be cool too. Small pockets of unique park things in addition to playground would be awesome. Until something major happens with city hall, something more inviting than that outdated sad brick works lol
 
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jass said:
....are you really arguing against a playground?
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This wasn't the Mike's point, but to be fair, check out some other downtown playgrounds (Elliot Norton Park, for instance). Even before COVID, they were largely occupied with encampments that scared off parents & kids, and BOS:311 indicates this is a broader problem throughout the neighborhoods. Obviously this is not meant as an argument against playgrounds per se, but combined with the fact that this is not a residential/family area, this will likely be the primary use case.
 
MjolnirMan said:
This wasn't the Mike's point, but to be fair, check out some other downtown playgrounds (Elliot Norton Park, for instance). Even before COVID, they were largely occupied with encampments that scared off parents & kids, and BOS:311 indicates this is a broader problem throughout the neighborhoods. Obviously this is not meant as an argument against playgrounds per se, but combined with the fact that this is not a residential/family area, this will likely be the primary use case.
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There may be some 311 cases for Eliot Norton Park playground, but it certainly gets good use, even now, by families and kids.
 
you can tell all of that from the rendering? I dont know, that slide alone looks pretty bad ass.
there are kids, residents, all around this area (beacon hill, west end, north end). Not to mention all of the tourists, which is enough in itself. why is there a (heavily used) playground in the Common by your logic? the city, for many years, now has been installing more and more challenging play areas. its not new for them. its been great to see a return to the pre 'sue everybody' era mentality.

some of your other objections, over naming mostly, are off.
Amphitheater steps, the City has had concerts for years in this area and the steps are used as amphitheater seating.
Speakers' Corner, under the flag poles is exactly where many, many, many events/speeches/press conferences happen all the time, even during covid.
Cambridge St Terrace, is a terrace because its higher and over looks the main plaza.
North Entry, re-opening that is awesome! why quibble over calling it an entry court? who cares? its direct access to the resident services that are located just inside.
 
Life Coach Mike said:
My two cents: Overall plan is good. However, get rid of the gimmicky areas that will have little or no meaning without laborious explanation: 1: Congress St. Civic Space? It's the bathrooms, Harry! And they're in an ugly bunker.
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The site is aggressively sloped to the East. If you build anything on a level grade, it will have to cut into that slope. Putting it at grade with Congress st at that intersection makes it the most accessible. Looks like a completely reasonable design to me. There's a public seating space above it too.

Life Coach Mike said:
4: Adventure Play Slope?? How long will this complicated area last without vandalism? Also I smell lawsuits as kids get hurt and parents blame the city. And where are these kids coming from in the first place? This is not a family neighborhood.
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This is an overly cynical take. There are tons of tourist families that pass by around Faneuil hall and Haymarket. And wealthy families live just west in Beacon Hill. I echo the other comment. That playground looks pretty badass. I feel like you're getting hung up on the analogy it's claimed to make towards City Hall. I would have never guessed that to be true if the designer didn't say it, so functionally, who cares? But isn't it also nicer that it's actually designed with contextual intent instead of just some boilerplate off the shelf design from the manufacturer?

Life Coach Mike said:
7: Water wall...will it last longer than the last fountain, the one they covered up with concrete?
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Given the extensive earthworks going on at the site now, and the advancements in building tech since the 60s, I think we can give it the benefit of the doubt. The fountain was the best part of the plaza. We should be happy to get it back in some form.

Life Coach Mike said:
12: Cambridge Terraces? What does that mean?
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It means it's an area of terraced ground (again, the site slopes down to the west) along Cambridge St.

Life Coach Mike said:
13: Speakers' Corner...are they kidding? Who do they think will be speaking? Even the Common has lost its status as a place for public discourse.
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That area was used plenty in the summer during the BLM protests. I think some of the more aspirational programmatic names are a good thing anyway. Maybe it's not used that way all the time, but it can function easily as an informal place to sit or at least extends the main entry axis outwards in a nice way.
 
This is an overly cynical take. There are tons of tourist families that pass by around Faneuil hall and Haymarket. And wealthy families live just west in Beacon Hill.
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As one of those (non-wealthy) Beacon Hill families, I can attest that there are a surprising number of families in Beacon Hill, West End, North End, and even Downtown that would use this. Families certainly don't comprise the same percentage of the population as the suburbs, but it's enough to fill a few public & private elementary schools in those areas.
 
While I'm a fan of the project overall, I am slightly cynical of the optimistic view that this plaza is suddenly going to be thriving as depicted in the renders, design narratives, and some on this board. Behind the words the architect is using to describe the spaces and their functions, I can still see this place being rather empty, apart from maybe the children's playground, if it's adequately sized... One has to hope the City of Boston is planning programming to occupy these spaces and attract more people to stop and stay here, and not that it will essentially just be a prettier version of what it is today.
 
I think just making it a park would have been the simplest most effective solution. Cant have enough parks and this is a good spot linking the north end to the financial district from the greenway. Sometimes making things too complicated makes it too much of a compromise for everybody. Hopefully this is a success but it seems like too much is going on.
 
Gotta agree with Stick -- Lots of overthinking and attempting to be 800 things at once (ahem... Copley Plaza...). If you're not going to enclose it with low-rise buildings to make it an actual "plaza" a la Plaza Mayor, St. Mark's Square, Piazza del Campo, etc., then why not just make it a smaller version of Boston Common -- all grass (with the exception of walking paths), with a buncha trees and a water feature or some shit?
 
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