Columbus Center: RIP | Back Bay

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Re: Columbus Center

I would love to see a comparison of the number of projects that were completed on the schedule given in their project proposal versus the number of projects that weren't.
 
Re: Columbus Center

The onanastic quality of this debate is discouraging. None of the arguments pro or con make (or made) a bit of difference.
I've taken the liberty of opening a new thread about the Pope Building and its environs to discuss what might be developed in future. That way we can look forward, and need not continue to rake the cold ashes of this thread.
As a teaser to get Ned and Ted (and others) to look beyond the C.C. thread, on the Pope thread I posted a picture of Ned's car parked in front of the Pope Building. Waiting to pick up Ted too, perhaps?
 
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Re: Columbus Center

A MATTER OF VISION

Author(s): Steve Bailey, Globe Staff
Date: June 2, 1999 Page: D1 Section: Business

Paul Roiff has been pounding the table the loudest so far. But you can bet he won't be the last.

Even Roiff knows he's in a bad place: He's a developer playing the "not in my backyard" card as the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority entertains "air rights" proposals for the three-mile stretch of highway that cuts through the city like an ugly scar. And who can blame him? For a guy who began as a real estate agent renting $90-a-month apartments to students in Allston-Brighton life is very good.

Downstairs in the 102-year-old Pope Building at 223 Columbus Ave., his Mistral is one of the trendiest restaurants in town. It's a place where starters like the confit of duck go for $18; the Dover sole meuniere goes for $40, the roast rack of Colorado lamb for $39. Upstairs his $1.5 million condominium commands some of the South End's best views.

At least up to now. What has Roiff worried is what he thinks fellow Boston developer Arthur Winn and turnpike boss Jim Kerasiotes, two men he has never met, have in mind for his neighborhood.

While the proposed $475 million, 59-story Millennium Project at Massachusetts Avenue has gotten all the headlines, more behemoths are on the way. Next up: Winn's $350 million, two-tower complex that would straddle the turnpike between Beacon and Clarendon.

A Winn spokesman declined to comment. But here's what I'm told to expect:

- One tower, on so-called Parcel 16, would be 38 stories high. It would contain a 200-room hotel, about 100 condos, and an urban spa along the lines of the elite Canyon Ranch Health Resorts in Las Vegas, Tucson, and Lenox, Mass., where prices range from $3,000 and up for a week's stay. Can you imagine getting a herbal wrap or a hydromassage over the pike at rush hour?

- The other tower, on Parcel 17, would be 33 stories of market-rate housing, with 330 units in all. The Boston architects, CBT, have been told to find a way to include an affordable housing component.

Winn, a respected developer whose projects include the Bostonian hotel, has been talking with both the Turnpike Authority and the Boston Redevelopment Authority. Look for an announcement in 60 days.

Roiff, the developer, isn't waiting. As a mayoral appointee to an advisory committee overseeing the air rights development of the pike in the city, Roiff has been by far the noisiest member of the panel. More than a few have wondered whether his opposition doesn't have something to do with the fact that the Winn development would blot out his penthouse views on two sides.

The relationship between the Strategic Development Study Committee and the Turnpike Authority has been, to be kind, contentious. Committee members complain of the turnpike's "bullying approach"; some are not nearly so kind about Kerasiotes, the chairman.

"We haven't felt like they have dealt with us honestly and upfront," says Roiff. Of his fellow committee members, Roiff is hardly kinder: "Nobody says anything at the meetings. We look at slide shows. We are like 3-year-olds."

Roiff complains that Kerasiotes' goal is to maximize revenue for the turnpike to pay for the Big Dig, and the neighborhoods be damned. Kerasiotes says development revenues have nothing to do with the Big Dig, but he is interested in getting full value for the air rights as a way to reduce pressure on tolls.

"I'm treating this no differently than Paul Roiff would treat any piece of property he owns," says Kerasiotes.

The Millennium debate has far to go. The debate over the Winn proposal hasn't even begun. And there are certainly others to come. What we are seeing is a not-so-silent war over development, a war that will test whether Boston can finally heal the scar left by the turnpike.

This is a war that needs to be fought in the open, based on what is right for the city -- not on whose penthouse view is being blocked or which proposal will raise the last dollar for the turnpike.
 
Re: Columbus Center

. . . there is no evidence of a grand conspiracy to steal government money while fatcat developers wallow in hordes of cash.

That?s untrue. The evidence is available to anyone with the intellectual honesty to read it.

California?s government loan applications state unusually large revenues and profits, while California?s grant applications state that if even as little as $1 million of the requested dollars are withheld, then the project will fail.

The application claiming the highest revenues and profits proves that no subsidies are needed at all, whereas the application claiming the lowest revenues and profits proves that the project itself would never qualify for a commercial bank loan.

Both situations can?t coexist, so at least one of them is a lie. No two subsidy applications tell the same story, so those forms, filed under pains and penalties of perjury, do constitute attempted fraud upon city, state, and federal governments, and upon the taxpayers who fund them.
 
Re: Columbus Center

. . . All the credible newspapers and media outlets in this town have sifted through the same documents that Ned has and found nothing.

That is untrue.

Journalists from Boston Globe, Boston Herald, Banker & Tradesman, Boston Business Journal, South End News, Boston Courant, and Beacon Hill Times all confirmed to me that, even after 13 years, they still have not read: the 1,331-page proposal, the 3,344-page lease, or the several thousand pages of public subsidy applications.

The newspapers ? and forum members ? who want to insist that nothing has been found also need to admit that that?s because they haven?t yet looked.

Several newspapers reported some of the discrepancies (as soon as I showed them where to find them).
 
Re: Columbus Center

. . . There is no controversy, in fact, there is widespread support of the project. . .

You repeat your ?widespread support? mantra almost every time you post, but after excluding the people, organizations, and politicians who were offered some cash and prizes (or still hope to be offered some), and after excluding certain members of this forum, all that?s left is widespread opposition:

■ The Boston Globe, Boston Herald, Banker & Tradesman, South End News, and Boston Business Journal have all run editorials and/or columnist articles that are highly critical of the proposal.
■ Three of the four state legislators are on record opposing this proposal, as are legislative committees, and the legislature as a whole.

■ No more city subsidies are being offered.
■ The Governor recently pulled all state subsidies.
■ The federal government twice denied a total of $119 million in federal tax credits.

■ Former owner Winn Development refuses to invest any more funds.
■ Current owner CalPERS-CUIP-MURC is prohibited from investing any more funds.

■ No local, national, or international banker ever loaned even one dollar for this project.

■ Although the Mayor and two of the people that he controls (BRA Director John Palmieri and City Councilor Bill Linehan) are still hoping for an $800 million miracle, even they admit they don?t know where, when, or how this success could occur.

Whatever support may have existed over the last 13 years now has vanished.

There are no independent voices favoring this proposal. Elected officials, government agencies, and the general public don?t view postings from anonymous forum members as credible, because the writers? identities and affiliations are unknown. Even valid ideas lose value when posted anonymously.
 
Re: Columbus Center

. . . The huge, risky project has found itself un-finance-able due to the massive explosion of construction costs in 2003-2004. . .

That?s untrue. One could believe that only if one did not read the proposal, does not know the time line, and doesn?t read the newspapers. Here?s what actually happened.

The project did not ?find itself unfinance-able? in 2003-2004. In that time period, the former owners published their proposal, which they and a city-engaged C.P.A. declared profitable, finance-able, and subsidy-free. When asked, Columbus Center?s former owners shrugged off rising construction costs and insisted those would have no impact since costs, revenues, and profits rise and fall together (Boston Herald, 10 September 2004).

. . . The huge, risky project has found itself unfinance-able due to the credit crunch of 2007-2008.

The project became un-finance-able long before the 2007-2008 credit crunch, so it?s silly to try and place the blame there. In early 2006, Anglo Irish Bank offered to consider a loan application, upon completion of its 19-page list of requirements. Neither the former owners nor the current owners ever met those requirements, and the bank?s offer was never renewed, revised, or replaced.

It?s true that the international credit crunch is causing other, more viable projects some difficulty now; however, that crunch hasn?t changed anything on this project. Columbus Center couldn?t get money even back when the economy was frothy and borrowing was easy.
 
Re: Columbus Center

I would love to see a comparison of the number of projects that were completed on the schedule given in their project proposal versus the number of projects that weren't.

In Boston, large projects often finish 10 weeks later than proposed, and sometimes finish 10 months later than proposed, but never finish 10 years later than proposed.
 
Re: Columbus Center

That?s untrue. The evidence is available to anyone with the intellectual honesty to read it.

California?s government loan applications state unusually large revenues and profits, while California?s grant applications state that if even as little as $1 million of the requested dollars are withheld, then the project will fail.

The application claiming the highest revenues and profits proves that no subsidies are needed at all, whereas the application claiming the lowest revenues and profits proves that the project itself would never qualify for a commercial bank loan.

Both situations can?t coexist, so at least one of them is a lie. No two subsidy applications tell the same story, so those forms, filed under pains and penalties of perjury, do constitute attempted fraud upon city, state, and federal governments, and upon the taxpayers who fund them.

Maybe it is the high-risk that you stated earlier that made them decide to go with this plan, to make sure they in fact don't lose profit.
 
Re: Columbus Center

In Boston, large projects often finish 10 weeks later than proposed, and sometimes finish 10 months later than proposed, but never finish 10 years later than proposed.

There were only a few large projects in Boston. Fan Pier has taken more than a decade. The One Lincoln was delayed multiple years as was the W Hotel. Hayward Place is approved but probably won't be built for many years. The cause of these delays are (besides Fan Pier) based mainly on the economy so in fact, yes the economy did affect CC whether you claim so or not. And the reason why CC probably didn't borrow the loans from the bank during the time it was easy was probably because CC wasn't even approved back then. Why would CC developers borrow money when they don't even know that they can even construct the tower?
 
Re: Columbus Center

"59-story Millennium Project at Massachusetts Avenue "...What is this?

"Can you imagine getting a herbal wrap or a hydromassage over the pike at rush hour?"...Is that meant as a joke? Can anyone tell while at the Pru during rush hour they are over a highway?
The parcels over the Pike should be dense, not open space.
 
Re: Columbus Center

Was a failed proposal by Millennium Partners to build over the Pike at Mass. Ave. and Boylston Street. It would have been similar to what they built in downtown Boston (now the Ritz Towers).
 
Re: Columbus Center

From The South End News:

Columbus Center developers meet with BRA

by Managing Editor Linda Rodriguez ? Thursday May 8, 2008

The developers of the now-stalled Columbus Center project met with officials from the Boston Redevelopment Authority (BRA) on May 1 to discuss the developers? attempts to get the project back on track.

Jessica Shumaker, a spokeswoman for the BRA, said that ?nothing really was settled from the meeting.? After filling the agency in on their current situation, the developers, represented by the local Winn Development Company, told the BRA that they?re still exploring their options.

?We?re still very much working hard to see if this project can move forward and how we can get it to move forward,? said Shumaker. As for the developers, she said, ?They were very committed, they weren?t trying to say to us that they were stepping away at all.?

Last week, the South End News reported that the construction on the Columbus Center site would continue at a slower pace over the next 18 months, according to Alan Eisner, a spokesman for the developers. Eisner said that the developers would be doing ?minimal work there? so as to ?keep the site in play.?

?If it keeps them going until they can get things finalized and fully move forward, I would say that further proves that they?re committed to finding a solution so that they can move forward,? said Shumaker. ??I would say that?s a positive that they?re doing everything they can to get this up and running.?

Eisner also said then that Winn Developers and their partners, California Public Employees? Retirement System (CalPERS) and MacFarlane Partners, were ?hopeful? about finding funding for the beleaguered project, which has seen a series of setbacks in the last few months.

The seven-acre project, which includes a 35-story hotel building, several multi-story luxury apartment complexes, retail space, and the deck built over the Turnpike, ballooned in cost from $300 million in its initial proposal more than a decade ago to its current estimated $800 million. Construction on the project began in November 2007, digging up a portion of the parcels in front of Cortes Street, however, it was put on hold at the end of March after the developers asked the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority for an 18-month moratorium. At the time, developers said they were waiting on funding from the state and could not move forward on the $800 million project without it. On April 7, the Patrick administration announced that because the developers had halted construction, the $10 million MORE grant, which developers had claimed was an essential part of their ?capital structure,? would be parsed out to other projects in the state (See ?Columbus Center Hits Another Snag,? April 10). A day later, MassHousing announced that it would no longer be closing on $20.6 million in loans it had previously approved for the project.

Mayor Thomas Menino, who took a tour of the residential street overlooking the cavernous site on April 10, said Wednesday that the city is still in talks with the developer regarding their financial situation. A supporter of the project, Menino said, ?It?s a project that will fill a gap there.?

However, he added, ?If they?re not going to move forward, then we?ve got to figure something else out for the residents of Cortes Street.?
 
Re: Columbus Center

There were only a few large projects in Boston . . .

That?s untrue; Boston has many more than ?just a few? large projects. But, let?s cut to the chase. The mixed use (hotel-condo-parking-retail) air rights project that is most similar to Columbus Center is Copley Place, just one block away. The city and state approved it in 1980; and it opened in 1984.

. . . the reason why CC probably didn't borrow the loans from the bank during the time it was easy was probably because CC wasn't even approved back then.

That?s untrue. Re-check the public records. Here is Columbus Center?s recent time line.

2003 - MTA, BRA, city, and state approved the proposal.
2006 - CalPERS-CUIP-MURC bought the Columbus Center proposal, signed 99-year lease with MTA, and Anglo Irish Bank offered a $438 million loan if the CalPERS team could qualify.
2008 - Owners delayed construction to 2010-2015, and insisted that the amended lease give them the right to delay an additional 10 years on top of that.

So, 5 years after approval, the owners demanded the right to finish construction 12-22 years after approval.
 
Re: Columbus Center

From Boston Business Journal, May 9, 2008, page 63

Columbus Center impasse could be avoided

There are two mistakes in ?Off Center? (May 2, 2008 edition).

Firstly, it?s not true that no one knows how the impasse at the California-owned Columbus Center could have been avoided, or how to avoid it next time. MTA (Massachusetts Turnpike Authority) and BRA (Boston Redevelopment Authority) approved a project for which they themselves were among the sponsors and the proponents, and had a clear conflict of interest.

MTA and BRA violated their own Turnpike Master Plan by not requiring a minimum level of developer skill and experience, and by not requiring competitive bids. Then they kept the finances secret, even after four members of the Mayor?s Citizens Advisory Committee demanded full financial disclosure to fulfill their mission. Finally, MTA and BRA approved the proposal which promised to fund the entire project privately with no public subsidy. MTA and BRA never enforced the no-subsidy promise.

The most recent public subsidy applications reveal that no subsidy is necessary because revenue far exceeds the $800 million cost, and yields a healthy profit.

The project halted because: the original owner exhausted all capital; the new owner (California pension plan) exceeded its own capital limits; public subsidies were suspended, withdrawn, or denied; and the project doesn?t meet commercial lending criteria.

Next time, all this can be avoided if MTA and BRA will just comply with their own Master Plan, screen the developers, obtain competitive bids, and require full financial disclosure.
Ned Flaherty
Boston​
 
Re: Columbus Center

At current count, Ned has posted 125 times on this site. I would love to know if, in any of those 125 posts, Ned has admitted he made any error of any kind in his analysis of the Columbus Center project. My impression is that he is constitutionally incapable of conceeding any points whatsoever. Conversely, every post begins with "Untrue". Charming.
 
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Re: Columbus Center

In Boston, large projects often finish 10 weeks later than proposed, and sometimes finish 10 months later than proposed, but never finish 10 years later than proposed.

Really? How about Fan Pier? How about 1 Lincoln? How about the South Station Tower? How about a timely project called the BIG DIG? What was the original timeline on that one?
 
Re: Columbus Center

There are any number of projects within walking distance of Columbus Center that have taken many, many years between full approval and groundbreaking. Exhibit A would be the W Hotel (formerly Loews) that sat for almost a decade, but is now going up pretty much as was planned 10 years ago. Exhibit B would be Kensington, which I'd wager will sit as long as Columbus Center before all is said and done. Exhibit C would be Hayward Place. Some others will never go ahead ... some are amended ... some are so vastly re-worked before they finally emerge that they qualify as "new."

It all comes down to economics and business cycles.

In Ned's world, this project is simultaneously hugely profitable without subsidy and yet held up by a crooked developer who would rather play a game with chicken with the state for subsidy dollars (mostly loans) rather than simply taking the huge profits that are already on the table. In Ned's world, a bunch of other developers would emerge to take on the project, with less revenue (smaller buildings) and added costs (cover the tracks) if only they were allowed to bid ... but amazingly, none of these would-be developers is smart enough to approach the Winn/Calpers team to buy out the more profitable proposal that's ready to go, and none of the banks are smart enough to put up the financing in return for a greater slice of equity. In Ned's world, projections for cost and profit from years ago, made to the nth decimal place, are still valid, and risk considerations are separate from profit projections.

To believe any of Ned's thesis, it's not enough to conclude that Winn and CalPERS are greedy ... you need to conclude that all developers and all banks are really, really stupid.
 
Re: Columbus Center

There are any number of projects within walking distance of Columbus Center that have taken many, many years between full approval and groundbreaking. Exhibit A would be the W Hotel (formerly Loews) that sat for almost a decade, but is now going up pretty much as was planned 10 years ago. Exhibit B would be Kensington, which I'd wager will sit as long as Columbus Center before all is said and done. Exhibit C would be Hayward Place. Some others will never go ahead ... some are amended ... some are so vastly re-worked before they finally emerge that they qualify as "new."

It all comes down to economics and business cycles.

In Ned's world, this project is simultaneously hugely profitable without subsidy and yet held up by a crooked developer who would rather play a game with chicken with the state for subsidy dollars (mostly loans) rather than simply taking the huge profits that are already on the table. In Ned's world, a bunch of other developers would emerge to take on the project, with less revenue (smaller buildings) and added costs (cover the tracks) if only they were allowed to bid ... but amazingly, none of these would-be developers is smart enough to approach the Winn/Calpers team to buy out the more profitable proposal that's ready to go, and none of the banks are smart enough to put up the financing in return for a greater slice of equity. In Ned's world, projections for cost and profit from years ago, made to the nth decimal place, are still valid, and risk considerations are separate from profit projections.

To believe any of Ned's thesis, it's not enough to conclude that Winn and CalPERS are greedy ... you need to conclude that all developers and all banks are really, really stupid.


Untrue.

(I thought I would save Ned the time)
 
Re: Columbus Center

I think we're all really excited for Columbus Center to get moving again. The worst of the credit crunch is behind us, and the big money out there is talking with Winn, after holding my breath, it's been awesome to see the city has decided to be patient and the Mayor is still showing his strong support. It's all very good news for supporters of this project.

Those of us who have worked with Mayor Menino know that he is obsessed with polls and rarely takes politically unpopular or risky stances on anything. His people/pollsters are telling him what we already know - the project enjoys sweeping, city-wide support, across the whole city, throughout all the neighborhoods (excluding the usual barking activists and the direct abutters).

Menino knows Bostonians (73% approval rate) and he knows that the whole city is behind this. So he has put his weight strongly behind this project because he always knows the "word on the street" in this city - and the "word on the street" is that the regular folks all see this as an absolute no-brainer.

So while it's fun to debate on this forum, I think the backers of this project are all feeling pretty good about it given the state of today's capital markets and the patience the BRA is exhibiting here.
 
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