Copley Square Revamp | Back Bay

tobyjug said:
Again?
I can still remember when it was a triangle!
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I know! I can recall the triangles too. Please God, no more iterations!! Just replace all the dead trees with a consistent species. I'm sorry that some great ones, like lindens, have fallen out of favor. I really dislike the plane tree species.
 
Life Coach Mike said:
I know! I can recall the triangles too. Please God, no more iterations!! Just replace all the dead trees with a consistent species. I'm sorry that some great ones, like lindens, have fallen out of favor. I really dislike the plane tree species.
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There is a lot more than trees that need at least major repairs. The pavers are all cracked. The fountain no longer works (I am pretty sure). Usage has changed with the weekly farmer's market along St. James. If you are going to pull up most of the infrastructure, maybe it is OK to rethink it a bit?
 
Blackbird said:
Wish I'd remembered to comment. I thought it'd be really cool to create a grove of cherry blossom trees on Copley.
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I like this! I was deployed to Japan when I was active duty and they have a cherry blossom festival there. Ill never forget the sights and smells that come with cherry blossoms. Really makes it bring people together for a special purpose at specific times each year and that could really be something cool for copley sq.

Washington dc had a few thousand cherry blossoms donated from japan a long time ago maybe we could get some from japan as well to have some type of story with them and also a connection to another city that will last hundreds of years. This could really be something awesome. Itd be a great reason to go to copley square once a year! Maybe put some on the greenway as well?
 
stick n move said:
Washington dc had a few thousand cherry blossoms donated from japan a long time ago maybe we could get some from japan as well to have some type of story with them and also a connection to another city that will last hundreds of years. This could really be something awesome. Itd be a great reason to go to copley square once a year! Maybe put some on the greenway as well?
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Japan has gifted cherry trees to Boston many times apparently. And believe it or not, the Esplanade is considered one of the best places in the country to see cherry blossoms. See https://www.japansocietyboston.org/sakura/eng, https://discovery.cathaypacific.com/7-us-cities-embrace-cherry-blossom-season/ and http://archive.boston.com/business/articles/2003/12/19/blossoming_dispute/
 
JeffDowntown said:
There is a lot more than trees that need at least major repairs. The pavers are all cracked. The fountain no longer works (I am pretty sure). Usage has changed with the weekly farmer's market along St. James. If you are going to pull up most of the infrastructure, maybe it is OK to rethink it a bit?
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Jeff, I get it. The trouble is that those who rethink such important areas are too often looking for novelty rather than creating public spaces that have legitimate limited use. The irony is I predicted what would happen when Copley was redone this last time. First, I knew that using slate in the paving design would be a disaster in the winter, when it would shatter with the ice and create tripping hazards. I later witnessed the painstaking work to pull up and reset select stone. Second, I knew that the plane trees would not succeed ultimately, due to their habit and the way their root systems were tramped upon by pedestrians. Finally disease took out a lot of them and years of growth and shade were sabotaged. Third, I felt that the area to the left of the church would always be a no-man's land and it has been mostly a wind-swept area for the homeless. Fourth, I knew that the lawn would be horrible to keep up with if used regularly. That said there should have been benches facing the lawn and allowing for much more interaction with the grass...after all, if it's going to ruined let's enjoy it in the meantime. Fifth, as with nearly every fountain installed in Boston in the last 50 years, this one has also apparently failed....what's to stop the new one from also failing, unless it's 'adopted' by a corporation for ongoing maintenance. Sixth, there need to be more benches arranged for more private sitting, without having to face unpleasant characters strung out on substances (yes I'm a bit of snob when it comes to personal space). Seventh, the memorial to the Ghibran got lost in it's location. The statue of Copley, which I really like, is also lost in the attempt to be "accessible" on a short pedestal. It needs an explanatory plaque. And yes, the farmers' market needs space that is twice as wide. The sidewalk is impassable when it's there. I could go on. It's as if they design these things without asking normal people what they think or how they'll use it, etc. The only bright spot has been the turtle and hare sculpture which entertains kids. So yes, spend a few more million $$$ and redo it once again. Public squares that keep changing do not have the appropriate impact. They become transient features wherein people cannot make lasting memories...novelty wears thin very quickly, IMHO. Imagine revamping Piazza Navona every few decades....it makes no sense. Proper design and maintenance are the keys. I sadly witnessed the Square go downhill and get really dumpy the last couple of decades. There's no excuse for it.
 
Life Coach Mike said:
Jeff, I get it. The trouble is that those who rethink such important areas are too often looking for novelty rather than creating public spaces that have legitimate limited use. The irony is I predicted what would happen when Copley was redone this last time. First, I knew that using slate in the paving design would be a disaster in the winter, when it would shatter with the ice and create tripping hazards. I later witnessed the painstaking work to pull up and reset select stone. Second, I knew that the plane trees would not succeed ultimately, due to their habit and the way their root systems were tramped upon by pedestrians. Finally disease took out a lot of them and years of growth and shade were sabotaged. Third, I felt that the area to the left of the church would always be a no-man's land and it has been mostly a wind-swept area for the homeless. Fourth, I knew that the lawn would be horrible to keep up with if used regularly. That said there should have been benches facing the lawn and allowing for much more interaction with the grass...after all, if it's going to ruined let's enjoy it in the meantime. Fifth, as with nearly every fountain installed in Boston in the last 50 years, this one has also apparently failed....what's to stop the new one from also failing, unless it's 'adopted' by a corporation for ongoing maintenance. Sixth, there need to be more benches arranged for more private sitting, without having to face unpleasant characters strung out on substances (yes I'm a bit of snob when it comes to personal space). Seventh, the memorial to the Ghibran got lost in it's location. The statue of Copley, which I really like, is also lost in the attempt to be "accessible" on a short pedestal. It needs an explanatory plaque. And yes, the farmers' market needs space that is twice as wide. The sidewalk is impassable when it's there. I could go on. It's as if they design these things without asking normal people what they think or how they'll use it, etc. The only bright spot has been the turtle and hare sculpture which entertains kids. So yes, spend a few more million $$$ and redo it once again. Public squares that keep changing do not have the appropriate impact. They become transient features wherein people cannot make lasting memories...novelty wears thin very quickly, IMHO. Imagine revamping Piazza Navona every few decades....it makes no sense. Proper design and maintenance are the keys. I sadly witnessed the Square go downhill and get really dumpy the last couple of decades. There's no excuse for it.
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All excellent points. We try to make these prominent spaces do to much, and in the end they are ill designed for all the too many purposes.
 
The fountain's tiny and doesn't promote the same level of connection that the current one does. If you want to sit and enjoy this one, you're either going to have to sit on the grass or on the steps that look to be 5 feet away from the water, or sit directly next to it (which is nice), but facing away from it, or in some cases, step through what seems to be a runoff feature of the fountain in the summer. Overall, it looks like an afterthought compared to everything else.
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Wow, it's the only proposal that doesn't improve green space.
 
The reduction in greenspace from current day would be a little sad, but I get it. The lawn can be more difficult to maintain, especially in periods of high usage. I'm also sad to see the changes to the fountain, though again I get it. I work nearby and the fountain seems to always be in need of some kind of repair. When it is dry, you usually see skateboarders messing it up, which can't be helping.
 
Flame-bait invite incoming! I frequent the existing area as well, and am excited about the change. To me, the walking paths along the existing hardscape are at best indirect, and mostly uninviting due to either weather, or path condition, or lack of any sense as to where someone should be walking. Sticking to the street sidewalk if the need is passing thru has always been best option. And I always feel awkward walking directly in front of Trinity because I'm not sure if I'm interfering with some event that might be going on inside or immediately outside, so swapping the lawn and the plaza makes sense. Grass there is always beat, because no one knows where to walk. To me, if you want a park with good grass to spend time at lunch during the week, or with your kids on the weekend, there's another park within a five minute walk up Boylston that is on par with any city, any where. Moving the farmer's markets and future food trucks to the the interior opposite the BPL is a great upgrade. Moving events away from Boylston and further from Trinity is a great upgrade. The platform, to me, is a nice to have, but reminds me a bit about the beer gardens on the Greenway. That might become a bespoke location for a limited audience. And the fountain. Ughh. The fountain. The existing plan looks great in someone's portfolio, but in practice is functional failure. Please do not try to replicate some Medieval European tourist attraction in a relatively small space in a northern North American city. Even the proposed fountain is, to me, a bit much. I think what has been accomplished on the Greenway is excellent mostly because it is an added seasonal feature, but not a focus. Having a similar solution, and one scaled appropriately given the limited area of Copley Square, would be a better answer.
 
This has been redone about five times in my lifetime. Can’t even tell the difference between them anymore or if the statue of Cahill Jabroni is still going to be there.
(There is a nod to old Huntington in one of the proposed footpaths though.)
 
I like it a lot, looks like some real time and effort went in to getting this right.

Heres the slides showing the first iteration


And the current update


Subtle changes, but they do look to have improved it just a bit, especially the fountain. Plus more trees is a good change as well imo.
 
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